Jesus will return?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Oh, yes Tim LeHaye and Jerry Jenkins have made a fortune out of their interpretation of the Book of Revelations. In fact I saw them interviewed recently and they both chuckled when the interviewer, tongue in cheek, suggested that, given the amount of money they'd made, they might like to defer the end of times for a few more years. Most amusing. Never read any of them though.(Original post by Sophistress)
It almost makes me wish for the end times to come in my lifetime! Since you're in the US, have you heard of the Left Behind series? I used to love those, back in the day. In fact, when I look back on my faith, there was a lot of emphasis on the "rapture" (which as far as I know is not mentioned in the Bible), and the end days, and not a lot on Jesus and His teachings.
Oh, and like most fundamentalists (of my stripe, not yours, as I realise you consider yourself a fundamentalist), we worshipped Paul too.
St.Paul is my favorite apostle. Hand's down. Mind you, we Lutherans are a fairly Pauline bunch anyway. -
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Fundamentalists believe Revelations is to be interpreted literally, and would tell you to be very careful how you cherry pick. As for Paul, I didn't literally worship him in the way I would Jesus, but the sermons I used to hear certainly put a lot of emphasis on his teachings. But all said and done, since I'm an EX-Christian, I couldn't give a fluxy what is considered a sin.(Original post by juueru_chou)
I would be very careful with dramatisations of various parts of the bible, especially those that are important. As for worshipping Paul, that is definitely idololtry (sp) which is a sin. -
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The first few books were pretty good, but they began to get tedious. I can only imagine how much those guys have made. I know the books are very popular in the US.(Original post by Howard)
Oh, yes Tim LeHaye and Jerry Jenkins have made a fortune out of their interpretation of the Book of Revelations. In fact I saw them interviewed recently and they both chuckled when the interviewer, tongue in cheek, suggested that, given the amount of money they'd made, they might like to defer the end of times for a few more years. Most amusing. Never read any of them though.
St.Paul is my favorite apostle. Hand's down. Mind you, we Lutherans are a fairly Pauline bunch anyway.
Paul... I always liked Paul, but today I retain my favouritism for Thomas.
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Didn't Jesus say "today you will be with me in "paradise" to the other guy on the cross? Excuse my ancient Greek but that roughly translates into "kings garden" =)Christians believe that until Jesus comes back to do the judging, our souls don't go to heaven/hell, but remain here (I think). However subjectively we go straight to heaven, as a dead person has no concept of time.
Read Edgar Parkyns "His waiting bride" if you want to get a slightly clearer insight into it. My personal opinion? Most of revalations prophecies have come to pass (beyond the obvious relation to the 2nd coming)... the last book I'm waiting for completion is ZechariahThe Book of Revelations reads like the inane writings on the wall of somebody who lost their mind long ago as a result of hallucinogenic drug abuse.
Greek; anti = instead of (rather than against). I'm of the opinion the Catholic church and more potently some of the Pope's have come instead of Christ on numerous occasions (little bit of church history finds them declaring themselves equal with God, setting up other idols (saints) to worship etc).How do you know that?
Because it says so in the bible of course!
Yeah, I'm a Chistian, and yeah, God's existance, to me, is A Priori :P -
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Difficult to exclude Paul from sermons since he wrote 70 odd % of the NT (not including the gospels) and virtually built the early Church single handedly.(Original post by Sophistress)
Fundamentalists believe Revelations is to be interpreted literally, and would tell you to be very careful how you cherry pick. As for Paul, I didn't literally worship him in the way I would Jesus, but the sermons I used to hear certainly put a lot of emphasis on his teachings. But all said and done, since I'm an EX-Christian, I couldn't give a fluxy what is considered a sin. -
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Bare in mind that hes an "historicist" and there are other interpretations out there. He stresses quite a lot to question his interpretation in the light of scripture :PThanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to check it out when I get the chance.
If your feeling bored try listening to his Church History Series, its been quite an eye opener for me. MP3's @ http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...at.php?cid=133 -
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Indeed, but when I said a lot of emphasis, I did mean a lot. We tended to place him on a pedestal. Make him infallible. One thing I never realised as a Christian was that those who wrote the Bible were just humans, albeit ones inspired by God, and they could make mistakes or mis-judgments too.(Original post by Howard)
Difficult to exclude Paul from sermons since he wrote 70 odd % of the NT (not including the gospels) and virtually built the early Church single handedly. -
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Only Christ is infallible. But Paul wrote so much of the NT that to question him would attach a lot of of doubt to the entire Faith. He really is too influential a figure to dismiss and his authority must remain intact.(Original post by Sophistress)
Indeed, but when I said a lot of emphasis, I did mean a lot. We tended to place him on a pedestal. Make him infallible. One thing I never realised as a Christian was that those who wrote the Bible were just humans, albeit ones inspired by God, and they could make mistakes or mis-judgments too. -
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Yeah, post second coming right? I was trying to refer to what *i think* happens between dying now (although I think the second coming will come sooner rather than later hehe), and the second coming. No pergatory or anything silly like that.Are you kidding? The whole Christian idea of what happens after death is based of resurrection. There's more scripture to support this than you can shake a stick at!
Rev 19:5, KJV (needed in context really) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. " -
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Well, mainsteam theology has it that when we die our body turns to dust and our soul separates and is judged by Christ. This is called the first judgement. The soul then goes into the "intermediate state" (our Catholic brothers and sisters called this purgatory). Final judgement comes after the 1000 year reign when Christ judges the living and the dead (those in the intermediate state) and those who find their names in the Book of Life are rewarded with eternal bliss in the New Jerusalem and those that don't are in for a fairly miserable future. I think this is a fairly common interpretation.(Original post by worzle)
Yeah, post second coming right? I was trying to refer to what *i think* happens between dying now, and the second coming. No pergatory or anything silly like that.
Rev 19:5, KJV (needed in context really) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. "
Exactly how this idea is stitched together and reconciled with scripture is something I can't tell you off hand or without a bit of research.
But, what is clear is that at death we do not ascend directly to the pearly gates where St.Peter checks are name off in a book and either issues us with a set of wings and a halo and admits us directly to heaven or sends us off towards the elevator! This is the populist idea, but not the scriptural one.
The only scripture supporting the populist idea that I can think of is that which you mentioned earlier (the thief on the cross) and one of the prophets (I think Elijah?) that ascended directly to heaven. Roman Catholic Tradition has it that Mary ascended directly to heaven though there is no scripture to back that up. -
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Yeah, I know that. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough; I didn't mean we go to heaven when we die (Heaven doesn't equal Paradise, hence the garden part.. i.e. not the main house party(Original post by Howard)
But, what is clear is that at death we do not ascend directly to the pearly gates where St.Peter checks are name off in a book and either admits us directly to heaven or sends us off towards the elevator! This is the populist idea, but not the scriptural one.
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Qur'an is different from the Bible. Christians believe in the Bible and we firmly believe that Jesus is the son of God and not a prophet.(Original post by The Basilisk)
No it isn't - why?
Jesus is mentioned several times in the Qur'an and he is one of the main prophets- why do you think God gave him one of the big books???
Christians also believe that Jesus was crucified, died and resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven. We don't have anything suggesting that Romans took out the references from Bible- how can they at that time, when they weren't then interested in the Christians? It wasn't Romans who shouted that Jesus must be crucified.Originally Posted by The Basilisk
Fine. But if I want to know something about Jesus I'd turn to the Qur'an- which is a scripture by the way. Really- talk about being narrow-minded...
Also Muslim believe that Jesus predicted the coming of the Last Prophet and it was written in the original (unchanged) Bible- unfortunately the Romans who thought they had killed him took the references out- although they may still be traces of his prophecies in the bible today... -
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A prophet is a man appointed by God to spread His Word. Jesus is God.(Original post by The Basilisk)
You do realize that you are including Moses, Abraham, Noah, Solomon, Joseph, Jonah, John, etc. in your pretty rude way of addressing prophets. They are messengers chosen by God Himself- how can you make them look so small?
It annoys me when people say thing like mere prophets or just a prophet- it is so insulting.
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