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    (Original post by misterxninja)
    Discussed on the sub-forum by Addzter and Yvolt.

    Who then made it even more clear in the Social Liberal party they were forming of such views, but now have returned to the TSR Lib Dems - such constitutes a move leftward after the election of a left leader to top it all off.
    Ninja

    I disagree; Im not a socialist and nor is addzter. We are both centre-left social liberals which is a common ideology in the liberal democrat party on tsr and in RL - probably about half the members. You are the furthest right-wing "lib dem" Ive ever heard because you seem completely against social justice policies like progressive taxation and the Robin Hood Tax and you want to privatise the NHS, right?? You were the odd one out in the party and Im personally relieved youve left so we can get on without being bothered. Dont be sore about leaving -- dont try and take it out on us all, especially T_C who is doing well as a leader so far. Oh and btw Im not some pawn in some coup because me and T_C disagree on a few things, just like all members a little bit. This is healthy and we are a stronger party because of it -- things would be boring if we agreed with each other 100% all the time. So I ask now that you step off a bit and try not to make up so many conspiracy theories, its just making us think less of you. Hope youre doing well in the Conservatives and I hope we can all get along on a clean slate now.
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    Whilst i am not getting involved for the most part i can assure that Addzter is most definitely a socialist, everyone of his policies for the social liberal party was decidedly socialist.
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    (Original post by Ysolt)
    Ninja

    I disagree; Im not a socialist and nor is addzter. We are both centre-left social liberals which is a common ideology in the liberal democrat party on tsr and in RL - probably about half the members. You are the furthest right-wing "lib dem" Ive ever heard because you seem completely against social justice policies like progressive taxation and the Robin Hood Tax and you want to privatise the NHS, right?? You were the odd one out in the party and Im personally relieved youve left so we can get on without being bothered. Dont be sore about leaving -- dont try and take it out on us all, especially T_C who is doing well as a leader so far. Oh and btw Im not some pawn in some coup because me and T_C disagree on a few things, just like all members a little bit. This is healthy and we are a stronger party because of it -- things would be boring if we agreed with each other 100% all the time. So I ask now that you step off a bit and try not to make up so many conspiracy theories, its just making us think less of you. Hope youre doing well in the Conservatives and I hope we can all get along on a clean slate now.
    You are a socialist you just proved it. I believe in progressive taxation, you believe on taxing the rich and copy-catting Hollande in France; this will not lead to growth. You have misused the term social justice, social justice is about equal opportunities and giving a good education for everyone to have the chance and opportunity to do well in life providing they work hard. Social justice is nothing to do with taxation, that is social injustice what you suggest because you target a social class and punish it brutally for being its natural self.

    The Robin Hood tax is stupid, Robin Hood was stupid... You would in effect be taxing growth because you tax transactions, it is transactions that are the flow of money and the flow of money is how money is made the more money flows and moves around the market the more people add to it and money accumulates and then we have growth. To tax transactions is to tax growth and is standard stupid Socialist rhetoric, it might help pay off the deficit but a quicker better way to pay off the deficit is a win-win situation for everyone growth it is growth that will see social justice for all social classes; class lines are blurred and faded and classes barely exist any more only social cultural backgrounds exist not actual classes. University shows this all people mix and share the same experience in very much a similar way now.

    I want to privatise the NHS and give out vouchers on an income based assessment of full or half health costs. If you actually listened to what I had to say instead of seeing the word privatise the NHS and crying like a little Socialist you would see it would work better for the poor, they would get a higher standard treatment for free and save the government billions to pay off the deficit very quickly. It would help encourage individuals to look after themselves better and broaden treatment the NHS is ill equipped or unable to afford to start conducting by inviting the market to invest in healthcare it will improve drastically. It also means the operations of the protected less well off in society will cost the government less per operation compared to an NHS operation also, because in a market system of competition the price of operation will drop to compete for custom. The NHS currently keeps operation prices artificially high because there is no competition so the government are paying more than the actual value of the operation. I want social justice, that is why I believe in the things I do. Socialism is not social justice it is social injustice "your rich that ain't fair, give me some". Growth is good for everyone and growth and efficiency and competition with equality of opportunity and a good education system will lead to the best social justice there is.

    You frankly just don't know the terms you are using the implications of your socially unjust policies either.

    You can disagree what you are all you want, it is not you who chooses what you are known as if a vast majority of people disagree it is they who choose what you are known as and referred to as... I call Socialist and others agree.

    As for thinking less of me, I don't care what people think. I'm aware of the "misterxninja being the troublemaker" he can get away with that line for a while longer, but members won't buy it forever and a lot of the quiet ones disagree with him and agree with me still, I'm a voice for those silent Lib Dems who cannot have a free voice in his new regime, what I say is what they would say if they had a free voice without repercussions to say so. Just that they have the viewpoint to consider and make up there mind. You speak of WE implying unity, but I know for a fact that many people are already grumbling about T_C all over TSR Lib Dems and otherwise, he is much more unpopular than any Lib Dem leader I can recall other than Lowson, Morgsie was much more highly regarded and liked on top of being cooperative and respected. TC is unfortunately none of those things so after you get a good hammering and realise externally he is a liability and no one wants to work with him, he won't be around for very long put it that way. He doesn't have the kudos, talent or abilities to do the job before him - he is a back-seat administrator not a visionary leader or doer. The history of the guy speaks for itself. He sits and admins, he makes a nice little Deputy to an extent and a good little secretary for correspondence, but boyo he ain't no leader has no passion no vigour or vision. He is weak, far weaker than Morgsie was said to be.
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    By the way Addzter has been temp-banned by the mods. Not sure why.
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    (Original post by misterxninja)
    You are a socialist you just proved it. I believe in progressive taxation, you believe on taxing the rich and copy-catting Hollande in France; this will not lead to growth. You have misused the term social justice, social justice is about equal opportunities and giving a good education for everyone to have the chance and opportunity to do well in life providing they work hard. Social justice is nothing to do with taxation, that is social injustice what you suggest because you target a social class and punish it brutally for being its natural self.
    Hmmm thats interesting... Social justice is about providing equality of opportunity and solidarity, respect for individuals and a dislike of coercion from the state and economic circumstances. I think that the modern economy is damaged because inequality is inbuilt in the system, so its assured that the rich get rich and the poor stay lowly and this is a habit that the government should relieve through progressive taxation. This is nothing radical. Rather than looking at Hollande in France you should look at scandinavian countries where social liberalism has been a great success. This is not socialism although sometimes socialists and social liberals will agree on certain issues like taxation, we do so for separate reasons, right? I also dont appreciate using socialist as a dirty word... Socialists have done some good and some bad; they carried on the social liberal project of the welfare state after WW2.

    The Robin Hood tax is stupid, Robin Hood was stupid... You would in effect be taxing growth because you tax transactions, it is transactions that are the flow of money and the flow of money is how money is made the more money flows and moves around the market the more people add to it and money accumulates and then we have growth. To tax transactions is to tax growth and is standard stupid Socialist rhetoric, it might help pay off the deficit but a quicker better way to pay off the deficit is a win-win situation for everyone growth it is growth that will see social justice for all social classes; class lines are blurred and faded and classes barely exist any more only social cultural backgrounds exist not actual classes. University shows this all people mix and share the same experience in very much a similar way now.
    Robin Hood was not bad, he was an original social liberal. He believed in a small state where the economy is just - he disagreed with punishing the poor for being poor and letting economic power translate into coercion, right? as for the FTT, those arguments can be used against all taxes and if it was bought by the government then businesses would have a monopoly on economic policy and that would be disastrous.

    I want to privatise the NHS and give out vouchers on an income based assessment of full or half health costs. If you actually listened to what I had to say instead of seeing the word privatise the NHS and crying like a little Socialist you would see it would work better for the poor, they would get a higher standard treatment for free and save the government billions to pay off the deficit very quickly. It would help encourage individuals to look after themselves better and broaden treatment the NHS is ill equipped or unable to afford to start conducting by inviting the market to invest in healthcare it will improve drastically. It also means the operations of the protected less well off in society will cost the government less per operation compared to an NHS operation also, because in a market system of competition the price of operation will drop to compete for custom. The NHS currently keeps operation prices artificially high because there is no competition so the government are paying more than the actual value of the operation. I want social justice, that is why I believe in the things I do. Socialism is not social justice it is social injustice "your rich that ain't fair, give me some". Growth is good for everyone and growth and efficiency and competition with equality of opportunity and a good education system will lead to the best social justice there is.
    I agree with privatisation most the time I just dont think that its ethically right to profit off someones illness. State-run medical programmes are normally more efficient (medicaid in the US: 98% that goes in is spent on treatment compared to like 80% for private insurance). Markets dont work in healthcare. There are things wrong with the NHS but further privatisation is not the answer at all.

    You frankly just don't know the terms you are using the implications of your socially unjust policies either.

    You can disagree what you are all you want, it is not you who chooses what you are known as if a vast majority of people disagree it is they who choose what you are known as and referred to as... I call Socialist and others agree.
    You can call me a socialist all you want: it wont make me one. I know my own views and I know why I hold them and I think we can be grown up enough to respect that about each other...

    As for thinking less of me, I don't care what people think. I'm aware of the "misterxninja being the troublemaker" he can get away with that line for a while longer, but members won't buy it forever and a lot of the quiet ones disagree with him and agree with me still, I'm a voice for those silent Lib Dems who cannot have a free voice in his new regime, what I say is what they would say if they had a free voice without repercussions to say so. Just that they have the viewpoint to consider and make up there mind. You speak of WE implying unity, but I know for a fact that many people are already grumbling about T_C all over TSR Lib Dems and otherwise, he is much more unpopular than any Lib Dem leader I can recall other than Lowson, Morgsie was much more highly regarded and liked on top of being cooperative and respected. TC is unfortunately none of those things so after you get a good hammering and realise externally he is a liability and no one wants to work with him, he won't be around for very long put it that way. He doesn't have the kudos, talent or abilities to do the job before him - he is a back-seat administrator not a visionary leader or doer. The history of the guy speaks for itself. He sits and admins, he makes a nice little Deputy to an extent and a good little secretary for correspondence, but boyo he ain't no leader has no passion no vigour or vision. He is weak, far weaker than Morgsie was said to be.
    Wow thats one big grudge you got there.
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    I have done wrong, please Leave me alone?
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I have done wrong, please Leave me alone?
    Whats happened?
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    (Original post by Ysolt)
    Whats happened?
    God knows! :confused:

    Leave the poor guy alone.
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    I received a PM, sender wants to be anonymous. Asked Labour about it and they turned a molehill into a mountain by accusing me of a dupe and a spy etc
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I received a PM, sender wants to be anonymous. Asked Labour about it and they turned a molehill into a mountain by accusing me of a dupe and a spy etc
    (Original post by democracy)
    x
    As acting speaker could you do some hocus pocus and check who's given Morgsie this private information so this whole thing can be over and done with?
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    As acting speaker could you do some hocus pocus and check who's given Morgsie this private information so this whole thing can be over and done with?
    He is not getting involved, I already sent him a PM
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    As acting speaker could you do some hocus pocus and check who's given Morgsie this private information so this whole thing can be over and done with?

    (Original post by Morgsie)
    He is not getting involved, I already sent him a PM
    It needs to be done through AASM. Moderation matters aren't dealt with via PM.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    It needs to be done through AASM. Moderation matters aren't dealt with via PM.
    Normally Nick would deal with stuff like this by discussing it with the mods since its a rule-break specific to the MHoC. I'm not sure what the protocol is really.

    Nick got them to look through RoryS' inbox during the interview fiasco.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    It needs to be done through AASM. Moderation matters aren't dealt with via PM.
    Aye, i have asked our C1 to take care of it. I was gonna handle it, but as i am directly involved in the argument they probably wouldnt be too happy.
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    Normally Nick would deal with stuff like this by discussing it with the mods since its a rule-break specific to the MHoC. I'm not sure what the protocol is really.

    Nick got them to look through RoryS' inbox during the interview fiasco.
    You could request it through AASM. I did so when I had an issue with PMs. How willing they would be to deal with it from a member other than the person who's inbox is another matter though. Always worth asking.
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    Normally Nick would deal with stuff like this by discussing it with the mods since its a rule-break specific to the MHoC. I'm not sure what the protocol is really.

    Nick got them to look through RoryS' inbox during the interview fiasco.
    It isnt a rule break specific to the HoC. There is a rule that prohibits leaking of private forum information in the TSR rules, it was mostly designed to protect subscribers as there is a fair bit of personal information in the back room. In addition, there is also a rule prohibiting leaking private messages, they are called private messages for a reason.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    It isnt a rule break specific to the HoC. There is a rule that prohibits leaking of private forum information in the TSR rules, it was mostly designed to protect subscribers as there is a fair bit of personal information in the back room. In addition, there is also a rule prohibiting leaking private messages, they are called private messages for a reason.
    Its alright for the Labour Leader to leak PMs but I am not allowed, HYPOCRITES
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Its alright for the Labour Leader to leak PMs but I am not allowed, HYPOCRITES
    Me? What have I done?
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Its alright for the Labour Leader to leak PMs but I am not allowed, HYPOCRITES
    Your post doesnt make any sense.

    When did the Labour leader leak PMs?

    Why did you not report this to the moderation team?

    How can i be a hypocrite? I am not a mod, i am just ensuring my parties private matters remain private.

    Do you really wanna start an argument with me Morgsie? You know pretty damn well i can take you down, and lets be honest, who is gonna end up moaning about people making him depressed at the end of it? I was attempting to resolve the situation and protect you, hell, only yesterday i was outright rude to a fellow party member. For what benefit? When people were not bickering with you, you proceeded to start the bickering and in the process broke the rules of this forum. Who really is to blame here?
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    (Original post by RoryS)
    God knows! :confused:

    Leave the poor guy alone.
    Me? Im not doing anything and dont want anything to do with this drama here.
Updated: March 11, 2013
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