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Should all applicants have their grades before applying?
It's not a wonderfully thought-out plan, so please forgive any minor errors or omissions ... but, for a while, I've been thinking about how the UCAS application cycle could be easier and/or less stressful.
The idea is something like this: people take their exams in May/June, and then over the summer get their UCAS application ready to send out - pretty much the same application, except the applicant ranks their choices in order of preference. Exam results come out and are put into the application. A week follows in which people can get remarks and change their uni choices if necessary, and then the UCAS applications are simultaneously sent out. First, all go to the first-ranked uni, who get X amount of time to reply. Those rejected from their first-ranked uni have their application re-sent to their second-ranked uni (again, simultaneously with everyone elses' applications), who have X amount of time to reply ... and it continues until the fifth-ranked unis have had their replying time. After this, there could be a shortened version of Extra and then the university academic year starts sometime around what is currently the start of semester two.
Like I say, as I've written it it's bound to have things that I've forgotten to include or been unrealistic about ... but in general, that's my thought. The way I see it, the main advantage is that it is more 'set in stone' than the current system. I don't mean you have to go to your university (just the same as now, you could withdraw from the cycle), but there's no conditional offers, no having to reply to them, no need for a Clearing system because people can already apply for grade-appropriate courses (although Extra could be incorporated.)
It's also less complicated because there aren't different dates depending on when you apply, no one has a late application and deferred offers under such a system seem a bit redundant. It gives everyone getting on for another year to decide what they want to apply for. In addition, it gives all applicants half a year to travel, earn some money, relax, volunteer, whatever they want to.
Any thoughts on it, even if it is to ask me what I've been smoking?
The idea is something like this: people take their exams in May/June, and then over the summer get their UCAS application ready to send out - pretty much the same application, except the applicant ranks their choices in order of preference. Exam results come out and are put into the application. A week follows in which people can get remarks and change their uni choices if necessary, and then the UCAS applications are simultaneously sent out. First, all go to the first-ranked uni, who get X amount of time to reply. Those rejected from their first-ranked uni have their application re-sent to their second-ranked uni (again, simultaneously with everyone elses' applications), who have X amount of time to reply ... and it continues until the fifth-ranked unis have had their replying time. After this, there could be a shortened version of Extra and then the university academic year starts sometime around what is currently the start of semester two.
Like I say, as I've written it it's bound to have things that I've forgotten to include or been unrealistic about ... but in general, that's my thought. The way I see it, the main advantage is that it is more 'set in stone' than the current system. I don't mean you have to go to your university (just the same as now, you could withdraw from the cycle), but there's no conditional offers, no having to reply to them, no need for a Clearing system because people can already apply for grade-appropriate courses (although Extra could be incorporated.)
It's also less complicated because there aren't different dates depending on when you apply, no one has a late application and deferred offers under such a system seem a bit redundant. It gives everyone getting on for another year to decide what they want to apply for. In addition, it gives all applicants half a year to travel, earn some money, relax, volunteer, whatever they want to.
Any thoughts on it, even if it is to ask me what I've been smoking?
From what I understand, the whole ranking universities thing sounds pretty similar to how you apply for a PGCE? So it obviously does work in practise.
What doesn't work is timing, I guess. Because if we all applied after A2s, then we'd all have to take a gap year, presumably, or the universities would have to accept us and sort out accomodation super fast.
EDIT: Wait, I didn't read the part about the uni year starting at a different time. That would actually work fine, so long as legally, the time in between finishing school and starting uni counted as still being in full-time education in the same way that a summer holiday does.
What doesn't work is timing, I guess. Because if we all applied after A2s, then we'd all have to take a gap year, presumably, or the universities would have to accept us and sort out accomodation super fast.
EDIT: Wait, I didn't read the part about the uni year starting at a different time. That would actually work fine, so long as legally, the time in between finishing school and starting uni counted as still being in full-time education in the same way that a summer holiday does.
Or you could just adopt the Scottish system...
I'm not sure if I agree with ranking the unis - I didn't really have a rank order for mine when I applied. But I do agree with applying after results - different schools and even different teachers within schools predict on completely different things. I'm predicted a B for A2 German. I got an A at AS. Someone else who got a B at AS could be predicted an A at a different school. That isn't really fair. Applying after results would sort this out.
What about universities who want to interview applicants (IE for medicine, nursing or paramedic science where the ability to interact with people is as, or more, important than academic grades)
chriscpritchard
What about universities who want to interview applicants (IE for medicine, nursing or paramedic science where the ability to interact with people is as, or more, important than academic grades)
Hopefully, the timescale would be generous enough to allow for interviews. Between mid-August and mid-January, there's about five months, so each round has up to a month to make their decisions. One or two weeks to make a list of applicants to interview, interview them in a week, make offers in the last one or two weeks.
d123
I'm not sure if I agree with ranking the unis - I didn't really have a rank order for mine when I applied. But I do agree with applying after results - different schools and even different teachers within schools predict on completely different things. I'm predicted a B for A2 German. I got an A at AS. Someone else who got a B at AS could be predicted an A at a different school. That isn't really fair. Applying after results would sort this out.
Yeah, I agree that the predicted grades system is crap and far too subjective to be taken seriously. A guy on here put his (fairly poor) AS grades as pending, got his teachers to predict him straight A's, and he got into Oxford
I think your system works OP, it's similar to what goes on in other countries
TheSownRose
Hopefully, the timescale would be generous enough to allow for interviews. Between mid-August and mid-January, there's about five months, so each round has up to a month to make their decisions. One or two weeks to make a list of applicants to interview, interview them in a week, make offers in the last one or two weeks.
I can't see the benefit from this system. It just means everyone looses out on a term of education. Plus, I don't think a month would be sufficient, especially for oxbridge where the process of applying takes quite a long time, and the fact that the first round would take place over a holiday period, thus if they want to interview you, you may well be away on holiday. Having a couple of days notice to have to turn up for an interview does not sound like a good idea at all!
TheSownRose
Hopefully, the timescale would be generous enough to allow for interviews. Between mid-August and mid-January, there's about five months, so each round has up to a month to make their decisions. One or two weeks to make a list of applicants to interview, interview them in a week, make offers in the last one or two weeks.
I guess, but for some courses (again, medicine comes to mind) there are a LOT of applicants, probably unable to interview anywhere near as many in a week.
I know when I had my surrey interview there were over 400 applicants and it was nowhere near the deadline! (they had 10 places)
chriscpritchard
I guess, but for some courses (again, medicine comes to mind) there are a LOT of applicants, probably unable to interview anywhere near as many in a week.
I know when I had my surrey interview there were over 400 applicants and it was nowhere near the deadline! (they had 10 places)
I know when I had my surrey interview there were over 400 applicants and it was nowhere near the deadline! (they had 10 places)
There's a lot of applicants for medicine, yes ... but the university would only interview one 'round' of applicants at a time, and those medicine applicants wouldn't all put the same university as their first choice.
chriscpritchard
I guess, but for some courses (again, medicine comes to mind) there are a LOT of applicants, probably unable to interview anywhere near as many in a week.
I know when I had my surrey interview there were over 400 applicants and it was nowhere near the deadline! (they had 10 places)
I know when I had my surrey interview there were over 400 applicants and it was nowhere near the deadline! (they had 10 places)
True, but surely if the uni timetable and time scale changes as the OP said...will those problems not be avoided
Genocidal
I agree with going by the grades you have gained and starting the year a little later than normal but I hope by ranked uni's you mean ranked as the student ranks them and not ranked as in what league tables provided.
Oh yeah, definitely - sorry if it was ambiguous.
I meant that, instead of being sent as alphabetical order, they'd been sent in the order that the applicant preferred them.
A couple of problems:
1. Under you system someone that put a crap uni as a first choice will have a better chance of getting in than someone that has it as third. That makes it harder to apply to the great hard to get into unis.
2. The system couldn't place much emphasis on personal statements or interviews since there would be very little time (+academics don't like to work through the summer)
Similar systems that work just on grades and a ranking, but don't have the problem I outlined in 1. are in place in Ireland and my country. The results are much worse (at least here, dunno for Ireland) than in the UK.
An alternative would be something like the American system with APs.
1. Under you system someone that put a crap uni as a first choice will have a better chance of getting in than someone that has it as third. That makes it harder to apply to the great hard to get into unis.
2. The system couldn't place much emphasis on personal statements or interviews since there would be very little time (+academics don't like to work through the summer)
Similar systems that work just on grades and a ranking, but don't have the problem I outlined in 1. are in place in Ireland and my country. The results are much worse (at least here, dunno for Ireland) than in the UK.
An alternative would be something like the American system with APs.
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