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Students 'are a burden on taxpayers', new universities minister believes

Samrout

true true, but concerning jobs, supply must equal-to-or-under demand - especially in the case of apprenticeships. I agree, apprenticeships are needed, but putting 10,000 young people on a bricklaying course when nobody is building houses is a waste of money and not beneficial to society. Similarly, too many people with degrees would lead to unemployment, but that is because of a lack of will to work in other EU states. Either way, conservative ideology of inflation control being more important than 0 unemployment will **** us all.

But theoretically speaking by the time we have worked out way up the job ladder we will have to support 2 adults for every 1 of us, so by the time they do actually get around to changing something there should be more jobs available :P plus the market should start to open back up in the next 5 years and if inflation gets to high then the economy gets seriously messed up! I know loads of people hate her but Maggie did improve the economy and many claim that she actually created the conditions which allowed Blair to create a boom and that it was by gradually reducing her strict economic policies and increasing borrowing that we have ended up where we are today with this supply surpasses demand problem.

Reply 81

DaneCook

13

Steevee

Uhh, might get negged for this buttt.....

Why not only fund useful degrees? Law, Sciences, Medicine, Maths, English etc.

If they just didnt fun all the micky mouse degrees aswell then we' be fine. People with proper degress are more likley to go on and be useful as taxpayers.

Reply 82

Phantom_X

15

DaneCook

I think he means classic academic subjects, ie. literature, classics, history, philosophy, economics etc.

as opposed to media studies, photography etc that is more vocational and should be provided at polys.

Reply 83

FyreFight

14

Samrout

so you'll no doubt argue that a degree in golf course management is somewhat essential ? And the ever-growing media sector needs media graduates? both are degrees which I see Tories on here saying they need to be scrapped.

Surely higher education would lead to a more enlightened individual? Capable of making informed decisions which would benefit their own lives? Or is money the only thing that matters?

I can't imagine a scenario in which either of those degrees would benefit the country enough to justify subsidising them with taxpayer money.

If someone wants to take part in self-improvement, that's fantastic, but it shouldn't be done at someone else's expense.

Reply 84

FyreFight

14

qiaoyu.he

What costs are these? As far as I know, the money borrowed from the Government to cover the costs of the university tuition is repayed over your working life with interest (minus a few exceptions).

Or are you suggesting that to unburden the Government, they could scrap primary and secondary school education for those of us who have no intention of progessing to university after college/6th form?

No. Tuition fees, which you take loans out for, are capped at only a fraction of the cost of providing the degree. The rest is covered by government subsidies, money which the taxpayer will never see again.

Not sure where your second paragraph came from tbh.

Reply 85

ocelotrevs

16

This is why I could never vote for a Conversative MP. And why I don't understand students who vote for the Conservatives.

Reply 86

I_Lost_The_Game

Under labour, we had massive increase in number of graduates, with a relatively constant demand for them. This meant that they got devalued & so became a burden.

Under the tories, we need to cut back the crappy degrees, bring down the number of crappy graduates (while saving them some money), so degrees get some value again and don't become a burden.

Simples

Reply 87

JW92

18

Hang on, how do a few powerpoints cost thousands upon thousands of pounds a year anyway?

Reply 88

Jormungandr

8

JW92

Hang on, how do a few powerpoints cost thousands upon thousands of pounds a year anyway?

Come on, you know you're being disingenuous. Tuition fees go towards paying the university staff, both academic and administrative, for not only their teaching but also their research; it goes on resources in the form of books and relevant subscriptions (online and print); it goes on the resources needed to attract high quality academics, staff, and funding; it goes towards funding expensive equipment required by the sciences.

Reply 89

baby sexy

16

First step - SLASH non-sense degrees (media, drama, film watching)

Second step - EU citizens must be treated as FULL international students - no ******* subsidies.

Reply 90

.ACS.

19

It's ludicrous, and the way some on TSR react simply makes matters worse.

1. Higher education funding in the UK at the moment is untenable, and also universities are underfunded. Unfortunately the government doesn't have limitless money, and even if it did, any government money is taxpayer money. There is no such thing as 'solely government money' or 'free money'.

2. We need to constantly increase higher education funding if we want to maintain world-class standards, and even improve on them. If we're competing with Mongolia, then who cares, but if we're competing with the US, we need to up our game.

3. It's also arguable as to whether the average taxpayer who hasn't been anywhere near a university should pay for those who attend. Now with so many graduates from university the 'major benefit to society and the economy as a whole' argument is becoming weaker and weaker, and from an ideological and moral point of view, I can't find any reasoning as to why someone should pay for something of someone else.

To be honest I'm rather looking forward to the prospect of fees rising to £12,000 or more per year. It's a step closer toward a fully private higher education system, which to be fair, is what we need.

Reply 91

A Cat

3

FyreFight

I can't imagine a scenario in which either of those degrees would benefit the country enough to justify subsidising them with taxpayer money.

If someone wants to take part in self-improvement, that's fantastic, but it shouldn't be done at someone else's expense.

The degrees would lead to high-income jobs, leading to greater tax revenues, therefore benefiting the country. Surely, as a Tory (I can only assume), you can see that this is investment at its greatest? High levels of individual spending power, resulting in greater government tax revenues - VAT, Income Tax, Excise Duties - with relatively (concerning profit) little investment?

If self-improvement leads to greater social cohesion, which in turn is scientifically proven to enhance democracy - greater turnout, high levels of engagement - then surely it should be done at everyone's expense? Taxes are collected on virtually everything we buy, and everything we earn, and by the time one is 18 and ready to go to university, they may have spent enough of their parents' money on VAT to subsidise their own tuition fees.

Reply 92

mooniibuggy

14

maybesBABY

This, I really don't see why he is complaining since we will be paying his pension, ungrateful sod.

I agree. I heard it on the radio this morning before my exam. Great way to lower my motivation. :mad:

Reply 93

Teveth

17

When will tuition fees be put up, if it is to happen?

Will it be done in stages?

Reply 94

ish90an

10

baby sexy

First step - SLASH non-sense degrees (media, drama, film watching)

Second step - EU citizens must be treated as FULL international students - no ******* subsidies.

As a part of the EU, the UK would suffer big time from this, since they would be paying full fees in EU countries they wanted to study in as well. It would effectively cut off programmes like ERASMUS from most students. Students in many courses have to take an year abroad, this would no longer be feasible and hurt the quality of the courses.
Agree with the 1st point though. Having to watch 5 movies from the 40s is not academically rigorous no matter how people try to justify it :colonhash:

Reply 95

Phantom_X

15

Did anyone watch question time tonight ? That woman was talking about privitisation of all universities similar to the american system. What are your thoughts on this ?

Personally I am against this. My mother did her BA in Canada (UBC) and while she said its a worthwhile investment if you attend a top 15 uni (from oxbridge to say Exeter range) but after this point the investment becomes more risky. As a result, someone from say, Hertfordshire (an up and coming uni IMO) will face the burden of a much bigger debt, and it furthers the class divide (My parents are quite socialist so they are against such a system too).

Reply 96

Quady

20

Tommyjw

7000 a year.. for 4 year course = 28 grand. I wouldnt go to Uni if i knew i'd have to pay back 28 grand in tuition fee's alone :/

You don't have to pay it back...

Reply 97

amiejade-x

13

soo all the chavs who cant be arsed to get a job
or all the illegal immigrants living here
or people who have 10 kids to get a council house
arent a burden, but people who want to further thier career and produce a better life for themselves and their family are????
think he needs to rethink that one the ****

Reply 98

Quady

20

baby sexy

First step - SLASH non-sense degrees (media, drama, film watching)

Second step - EU citizens must be treated as FULL international students - no ******* subsidies.