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Original post by Hopple

Also, Osha and Theon is probably something I'd have found annoying before, but I actually found that funny. Not in a good way, I suppose, because it was the writers shoehorning sex in wherever they had half an excuse again, but perhaps I'm getting used to it.

I thought that didn't happen. I think it's telling that these last two episodes, definitely the best of the season so far, are the ones where the cast has sort of settled down and stopped breeding constantly. :lol:
Reply 1281
Original post by Steevee
Really don't like the way they're making Jon into a little bitch.

I think the way they're portraying him now is going to destroy the whole drastic change in character we see in the 4th and 5th book, assuming they get that far :colonhash:

My guess is Ygritte gets him thinking about abandoning the watch



Original post by Kaiser MacCleg
I thought that didn't happen. I think it's telling that these last two episodes, definitely the best of the season so far, are the ones where the cast has sort of settled down and stopped breeding constantly. :lol:


I don't think it was even necessary past being able to kill the guard. Even then, her cover story of being allowed to walk around by Theon needed the clincher of snogging the guard so really she could have just walked out of that shed and done it with some random piece of metal. It just seemed so forced to me XD
Tonks..

That was a brilliant episode!

Highlights for me (spoilered in case somebody hasn't seen it yet)...

Spoiler



You know I should probably just list every scene...
(edited 11 years ago)
Jon was a bitch in the books, too frightened of women and sex. They have it spot on.
Jon is a bad ass mofo
Original post by Kaiser MacCleg
*Possible minor book spoilers*

Spoiler



A well thought out response, but these actually aren't the sort of changes that bothered me (excluding the dragon theft).

The one that annoyed me the most from the last episode is the handling of the scene with Jon and Ygritte (excluding the fact that Ygritte looks like she just stepped out of a shower and has sparkling white teeth). In the book Jon can't bring himself to kill Ygritte so he lets her go. Here he can't bring himself to kill Ygritte, so he keeps her waiting for the Halfhand and his crew to arrive. If this happens the Halfhand will kill her off so all Jon is doing is prolonging the hour of her death. If he isn't going to let her go, then logically he should kill her himself before the Halfhand finds them. It would be a swifter death for Ygritte and would save his reputation.
Original post by Some random guy
A well thought out response, but these actually aren't the sort of changes that bothered me (excluding the dragon theft).

The one that annoyed me the most from the last episode is the handling of the scene with Jon and Ygritte (excluding the fact that Ygritte looks like she just stepped out of a shower and has sparkling white teeth). In the book Jon can't bring himself to kill Ygritte so he lets her go. Here he can't bring himself to kill Ygritte, so he keeps her waiting for the Halfhand and his crew to arrive. If this happens the Halfhand will kill her off so all Jon is doing is prolonging the hour of her death. If he isn't going to let her go, then logically he should kill her himself before the Halfhand finds them. It would be a swifter death for Ygritte and would save his reputation.

Has it not occurred to you that perhaps he will release her next episode and they are simply trying to prolong the story. But some book readers dont think the bigger picture and try and enjoy the show, it's just whine whine whine whine.
Reply 1288
Ygritte pushing her arse into Jon's crotch was a highlight for me
Original post by Michaelj
Has it not occurred to you that perhaps he will release her next episode and they are simply trying to prolong the story. But some book readers dont think the bigger picture and try and enjoy the show, it's just whine whine whine whine.


This is my opinion. You can try and devalue it all you want, but it will just make you appear immature with remarks like this.

Why does the story need to be prolonged in this scenario? It adds nothing to the characterisation or plot whatsoever if this is the case. And when time is such a valuable commodity, they really should not be using it up for pointless scenes when it comes at the cost of plots from the book. For example we won't be able to experience the cunning of the bastard of Bolton on the small screen since his book introduction has been completely cut and that was a very ingenius plotline that told us a lot about the kind of character he was.
Original post by Some random guy
This is my opinion. You can try and devalue it all you want, but it will just make you appear immature with remarks like this.

Why does the story need to be prolonged in this scenario? It adds nothing to the characterisation or plot whatsoever if this is the case. And when time is such a valuable commodity, they really should not be using it up for pointless scenes when it comes at the cost of plots from the book. For example we won't be able to experience the cunning of the bastard of Bolton on the small screen since his book introduction has been completely cut and that was a very ingenius plotline that told us a lot about the kind of character he was.


You must understand that first and foremost that the show is to entertain. What's the point of having the episodes go letter by letter to the book if 60% of the viewers are not enjoying it? Even GRRM stated he loved this episode and the changes. Some things have to be changed since you can't see what they are thinking so you need to add scenes and stuff. Some characters like Dany dont get a lot of screen time so you need more scenes. The point is that everyone is enjoying it (mostly by reviews, scores and ratings) so they are doing something right. They are still following the main story but adding sub story's.

Btw there us a theory that Dagmar is Ramsay, or he's certainly doing reeks storyline until the real Ramsay comes. Why? Budget and combining two characters or they wanna go some place. If this happens will the average viewer complain? No. Because most people haven't read the books and are enjoying it for what it is. I've read all of them but I understand changes must be made.
Original post by Michaelj
You must understand that first and foremost that the show is to entertain. What's the point of having the episodes go letter by letter to the book if 60% of the viewers are not enjoying it? Even GRRM stated he loved this episode and the changes. Some things have to be changed since you can't see what they are thinking so you need to add scenes and stuff. Some characters like Dany dont get a lot of screen time so you need more scenes. The point is that everyone is enjoying it (mostly by reviews, scores and ratings) so they are doing something right. They are still following the main story but adding sub story's.

Btw there us a theory that Dagmar is Ramsay, or he's certainly doing reeks storyline until the real Ramsay comes. Why? Budget and combining two characters or they wanna go some place. If this happens will the average viewer complain? No. Because most people haven't read the books and are enjoying it for what it is. I've read all of them but I understand changes must be made.


Were 60% of viewers not enjoying season 1 which followed the books very closely with a few exceptions? I think not. As I have already said, I understand where compromises have to be made for the sake of translating the story to a different medium. The Jon and Ygritte extension is not one such compromise and I do not see it's point. I am against changes to the story that do not add value. I believe this was one of them. I am fine with Rodrik being killed the way he was for example, as I have already stated.

Other changes I am against are the excessive whore scenes and that whore character that the TV series introduced but thankfully they haven't been around for the last 2 episodes.
(edited 11 years ago)
I suppose its like watching porn without feeling guilty when someone walks in, how awful.
Reply 1293
Original post by Michaelj
Has it not occurred to you that perhaps he will release her next episode and they are simply trying to prolong the story. But some book readers dont think the bigger picture and try and enjoy the show, it's just whine whine whine whine.



Original post by Some random guy
This is my opinion. You can try and devalue it all you want, but it will just make you appear immature with remarks like this.

Why does the story need to be prolonged in this scenario? It adds nothing to the characterisation or plot whatsoever if this is the case. And when time is such a valuable commodity, they really should not be using it up for pointless scenes when it comes at the cost of plots from the book. For example we won't be able to experience the cunning of the bastard of Bolton on the small screen since his book introduction has been completely cut and that was a very ingenius plotline that told us a lot about the kind of character he was.

Won't Qhorin and the others at least question Jon's competence, if not his allegiance as well, if he took until morning to get back from killing Ygritte? He should have been at most a couple of minutes behind them, unless he were to burn the bodies.

Bear in mind that Qhorin already doesn't trust Jon as much the books since he didn't ask for to come along.

Loads of changes from the book as people have already said. Some of them really don't bother me. Dany's dragons being stolen will still have the same outcome if that tower is what I think it is.

Spoiler



Arya's changes did bother me before, but I liked her in this episode. Her panicking and shouting at Jaqen H'ghar was excellent. :tongue:

Same with Robb - it's just a different way of getting to the same outcome, since he doesn't get chapters to himself in the book it's only right we receive more of a glimpse into his journey in the TV show.

Two changes really did bother me though:

Spoiler



I'm moaning like there's no tomorrow, but George Martin is really involved with the production so I'm guessing every change is justified.
Reply 1295
Original post by briesandwich
Loads of changes from the book as people have already said. Some of them really don't bother me. Dany's dragons being stolen will still have the same outcome if that tower is what I think it is.

Spoiler


Spoiler




Two changes really did bother me though:

Spoiler



I'm moaning like there's no tomorrow, but George Martin is really involved with the production so I'm guessing every change is justified.


I think the first



I knew I'd forgotten one of the changes they made

Original post by Hopple
Won't Qhorin and the others at least question Jon's competence, if not his allegiance as well, if he took until morning to get back from killing Ygritte? He should have been at most a couple of minutes behind them, unless he were to burn the bodies.

Bear in mind that Qhorin already doesn't trust Jon as much the books since he didn't ask for to come along.



Who cares if anyone questions his competance? He let her go in the book and Quorin asked why he let him go, its the same outcome. If you read the books at least state the facts.
Original post by briesandwich
Loads of changes from the book as people have already said. Some of them really don't bother me. Dany's dragons being stolen will still have the same outcome if that tower is what I think it is.

Spoiler



Arya's changes did bother me before, but I liked her in this episode. Her panicking and shouting at Jaqen H'ghar was excellent. :tongue:

Same with Robb - it's just a different way of getting to the same outcome, since he doesn't get chapters to himself in the book it's only right we receive more of a glimpse into his journey in the TV show.

Two changes really did bother me though:

Spoiler



I'm moaning like there's no tomorrow, but George Martin is really involved with the production so I'm guessing every change is justified.


Meera and Jojen have been cut, dunno what they're planning with it.

I think next episode Jon finds it, as I read hes "lost" in wilderness in episode 7 summary. So I am guessing he will have a wolf dream and run off to find Ghost and find the wildlings, dragonglass and then report to Quorin. Or maybe Sam will find it. They will find it either way as its been confirmed more or less the prologue to book 3 is gonna be the season 2 cliff hanger.

I wouldn't get annoyed with the changes as its still entertaining, if any of the book readers aren't enjoying it, may I ask why you are watching the show every week only to complain?
(edited 11 years ago)
Looking forward to watching Monday's episode later. Been revising for final exams and writing essays so I missed it, but now I've just sliced my hand open and no longer give a ****. Need some more GoT in my life! So difficult not to look at spoilers!
Original post by aliluvschoc
Looking forward to watching Monday's episode later. Been revising for final exams and writing essays so I missed it, but now I've just sliced my hand open and no longer give a ****. Need some more GoT in my life! So difficult not to look at spoilers!


You're in for a treat :woo: