[beccac94]

(Original post by Irishguy2K10)
Synchronised, the 2012 Gold Cup Champion and according to pete are now dead

I was gutted when I heard about them, at first we thought it was a person that wasn't getting up as one of the horses practically landed on his head but when they ran around again and they're was the black fencing around I knew it was a horse I was actually suprised synchronised actually raced seen as he had practically ran half the race before it was even started so he was bound to be tired.

I put a bet on Seabass and Treacle (I liked the names ) so chuffed that Seabass came 3rd

[Cetacea]

(Original post by beccac94)
I was gutted when I heard about them, at first we thought it was a person that wasn't getting up as one of the horses practically landed on his head but when they ran around again and they're was the black fencing around I knew it was a horse I was actually suprised synchronised actually raced seen as he had practically ran half the race before it was even started so he was bound to be tired.

I put a bet on Seabass and Treacle (I liked the names ) so chuffed that Seabass came 3rd

It's tragic I know. It seems even though the course had new safety measures introduced horses can still die. According to the BBC, both had fractured legs which we all know inevitably means they have to be put down.

There's actually a bit of a debate as to whether Synchronised should have raced or not - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/17714060

I put a bet on Grey Chicago but he was unfortunately brought down on one of the earlier jumps by another horse (can't remember which one) falling down. You must have been cheering Seabass on towards the end!

[ellie157]

(Original post by beccac94)
I was gutted when I heard about them, at first we thought it was a person that wasn't getting up as one of the horses practically landed on his head but when they ran around again and they're was the black fencing around I knew it was a horse I was actually suprised synchronised actually raced seen as he had practically ran half the race before it was even started so he was bound to be tired.

I put a bet on Seabass and Treacle (I liked the names ) so chuffed that Seabass came 3rd

The black fencing was actually a jockey who'd broken something, the two horses both died at Becher's Brook - Synchronised on the first lap and According To Pete on the 2nd :/

The RSPCA are not happy about it: http://www.rspca.org.uk/utilities/statement/120412

I had a bet on Seabass too, and Cappa Bleu

[Angry cucumber]

Some interesting threads on TSR about the Grand National:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1971965

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1971978

[beccac94]

(Original post by Cetacea)
It's tragic I know. It seems even though the course had new safety measures introduced horses can still die. According to the BBC, both had fractured legs which we all know inevitably means they have to be put down.

There's actually a bit of a debate as to whether Synchronised should have raced or not - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/17714060

I put a bet on Grey Chicago but he was unfortunately brought down on one of the earlier jumps by another horse (can't remember which one) falling down. You must have been cheering Seabass on towards the end!

I personally don't think he should have raced the horse was way too nervous and was going to be more tired than the others after running miles when his rider fell off. I was reading something in the newspaper yesterday about how a lot of horsey people thought that the horse had little chance against the jumps and the distance. If people knew that then why did they allow the horse to race?

I was practically running that race as well tbh I'm chuffed it came 3rd and shes the highest ranking woman jockey ever. My mums a bit gutted because she has a thing about not betting on grey horses so she was really thing about placing a bet on the horse that won until I told it was grey. Lets just say she wasn't too happy with me when it won :P

(Original post by ellie157)
The black fencing was actually a jockey who'd broken something, the two horses both died at Becher's Brook - Synchronised on the first lap and According To Pete on the 2nd :/

The RSPCA are not happy about it: http://www.rspca.org.uk/utilities/statement/120412

I had a bet on Seabass too, and Cappa Bleu

Oh I was wondering about that cause I was thinking that jumps not Bechers brook but what do I know I'm actually suprised with the RSPCA's reaction because they should understand that horses die all the time a horse died on Friday (not at aintree) and 2 died at the same race in newcastle a few weeks ago and they didn't even flutter an eye lid. I think its just because its a high profile race.

[beccac94]

(Original post by Angry cucumber)
Some interesting threads on TSR about the Grand National:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1971965

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1971978

The people on them annoy me they no very little about racing, riding or horses so are just blaming everyone, including the vets.

[Angry cucumber]

(Original post by beccac94)
The people on them annoy me they no very little about racing, riding or horses so are just blaming everyone, including the vets.

I noticed

You posted quite a few on the thread I posted on!!

I was particularly annoyed at the idiot who posted about vets cba, it was just Bull****!!!!

You know more about horses than me though!

Edit: Don't go on the "Should the Grand National be banned" thread on the news and current affairs area. It is full of morons and the poll is a joke. It is isn't one of the ones I linked to

[beccac94]

(Original post by Angry cucumber)
I noticed

You posted quite a few on the thread I posted on!!

I was particularly annoyed at the idiot who posted about vets cba, it was just Bull****!!!!

You know more about horses than me though!

I know I couldn't believe they said that. I think its cause I've been riding since I was about 9ish and when I was little (like every other 5 year old) I liked horses so I read and watched lots of thing to do with horses

[Lucy_x]

Im just gunna put this out there.. Some of you may not agree but each to their own

Seriously don't know how anyone can support the grand national, including betting on it, especially people who love animals. There has been a death in it at least every year and the safety measures they put in didn't help. By making a jump smaller the jockeys are just going to approach it with more speed. The problem is the amount of runners in it

Yes the horses may love to race but why not enter them in a safe race then? They are herd animals so when the jockeys fall off of course they are gunna try and keep up with the other horses. Even synchronised who had a fractured leg got up and jumped the next fence and then decided to stop.

Okay I'll stop now, it just really infuriates me! the RSPCA puts a statement out about it each year tbh it doesn't really do much.

And Clare balding on twitter as well.. How can she say she disagrees with aspects of the race yet go along and commentate and therefore support it :s

RIp to the two horses that had to be killed on site and the one who was put down friday night

[Angry cucumber]

(Original post by Lucy_x)
Im just gunna put this out there.. Some of you may not agree but each to their own

Seriously don't know how anyone can support the grand national, including betting on it, especially people who love animals. There has been a death in it at least every year and the safety measures they put in didn't help. By making a jump smaller the jockeys are just going to approach it with more speed. The problem is the amount of runners in it

Yes the horses may love to race but why not enter them in a safe race then? They are herd animals so when the jockeys fall off of course they are gunna try and keep up with the other horses. Even synchronised who had a fractured leg got up and jumped the next fence and then decided to stop.

Okay I'll stop now, it just really infuriates me! the RSPCA puts a statement out about it each year tbh it doesn't really do much.

And Clare balding on twitter as well.. How can she say she disagrees with aspects of the race yet go along and commentate and therefore support it :s

RIp to the two horses that had to be killed on site and the one who was put down last night

A bit of a bold statement that one.

As you say it is the number of runners is the problem, going by some the form guide comments on the web, on horses lower down the order have comments such as "Not a chance, won't make it around." To allow horses such as those race is irresponsible of trainers, race officials and race vets alike, as said horses are likely to fall and cause collisions, hence cause injuries. This I agree with.

However you say horses should be entered "safe races" this is a wishy washy statement as like it or not every race is dangerous. As beccc94 has pointed out to me in another thread, this is not a rare occurrence, several horses were put down last week alone.

As for Claire Balding, everyone is entitled to dislike an aspect of a sport, yet still enjoy it. If your going to start telling people who dislike an aspect of a sport to stop supporting it, it's a bit of a slippery slope. She said that the fields should be smaller, I agree with her, criticising a person who has the same ideas as you for improving the GN is just daft.

And for the RSPCA make a huge difference, see new whip rules, the lowering of the jumps this year etc.

I should be doing Maths revisions!!

[Lucy_x]

(Original post by Angry cucumber)
A bit of a bold statement that one.

As you say it is the number of runners is the problem, going by some the form guide comments on the web, on horses lower down the order have comments such as "Not a chance, won't make it around." To allow horses such as those race is irresponsible of trainers, race officials and race vets alike, as said horses are likely to fall and cause collisions, hence cause injuries. This I agree with.

However you say horses should be entered "safe races" this is a wishy washy statement as like it or not every race is dangerous. As beccc94 has pointed out to me in another thread, this is not a rare occurrence, several horses were put down last week alone.

As for Claire Balding, everyone is entitled to dislike an aspect of a sport, yet still enjoy it. If your going to start telling people who dislike an aspect of a sport to stop supporting it, it's a bit of a slippery slope. She said that the fields should be smaller, I agree with her, criticising a person who has the same ideas as you for improving the GN is just daft.

And for the RSPCA make a huge difference, see new whip rules, the lowering of the jumps this year etc.

I should be doing Maths revisions!!

Lool it was indeed I should take it back because it's a bit harsh isn't it.

Not every race is safe but I can't think of another race where a horse dies EVERY year! Yes it is a risk that people will take when racing, show jumping, eventing but flat races etc are undeniably safer than the grand national. Just because horses are being killed in other races doesn't mean it's acceptable for this to happen too. It's like, a jockey won't go to a different race expecting to lose a horse, or a show jumper expecting to lose their ride. It it's in the nature of the grand national. Almost unavoidable at the moment.

I'm criticising her because she goes along and therefore supports it. She may enjoy racing but doesn't necessarily have to go to an event that she doesn't like.

P.s. I know the RSPCA have done loads, Ive done work experience with them blaaaa de bla but at the end of the day it's the BHA that's going to bring in the changes

[Irishguy2K10]

(Original post by beccac94)
I was gutted when I heard about them, at first we thought it was a person that wasn't getting up as one of the horses practically landed on his head but when they ran around again and they're was the black fencing around I knew it was a horse I was actually suprised synchronised actually raced seen as he had practically ran half the race before it was even started so he was bound to be tired.

I put a bet on Seabass and Treacle (I liked the names ) so chuffed that Seabass came 3rd

Yea its very sad to see that them horses didnt make it. Yea, he had already ran the course/
Yea, my mum had a bet on seabass, she had so many top runners haha.

[Phoenix_147]

Im of two minds about racing. The way I see it, if you compared it to a human athletic sport with lots of betting, say football or sprinting, if an athlete dropped dead at every event or got injured so bad they were say paralyzed for life, what would peoples reactions be regarding the safety of the participants and would they alter the sport? My thinking would be yes they would. It worries me more people arnt concerned about the high death tolls in race horses regardless of the races. If we treated human athletes the way we treat racehorses (both of which are born/love their jobs) their would be a riot on our hands!

I think there should be must stricter controls over who is allowed to race. If the horse/jockey isnt fit or experienced enough, or on the day something is different (say they are spooked or the ground doesnt suit a particular animal) they shouldnt be allowed to race.

Interestingly there is an article on the BBc atm about accoring to petes owner who said its devistaing his horse died, he would never race grand national again etc etc. If he felt that way why enter the horse in the first place? I just found it a bit odd. Its like complaing you broke you back after choosing to do a base jump... If you want to take the risk you should be willing to live with the concequences. But hey thats just my opinion

[schizopear]

(Original post by Lucy_x)
Im just gunna put this out there.. Some of you may not agree but each to their own

Seriously don't know how anyone can support the grand national, including betting on it, especially people who love animals. There has been a death in it at least every year and the safety measures they put in didn't help. By making a jump smaller the jockeys are just going to approach it with more speed. The problem is the amount of runners in it

Yes the horses may love to race but why not enter them in a safe race then? They are herd animals so when the jockeys fall off of course they are gunna try and keep up with the other horses. Even synchronised who had a fractured leg got up and jumped the next fence and then decided to stop.

Okay I'll stop now, it just really infuriates me! the RSPCA puts a statement out about it each year tbh it doesn't really do much.

And Clare balding on twitter as well.. How can she say she disagrees with aspects of the race yet go along and commentate and therefore support it :s

RIp to the two horses that had to be killed on site and the one who was put down friday night

i completely agree with you.

i don't necessarily disagree with racing in general but horses die so consistently in the national and so few even finish the race, there is obviously something not right. it's supposed to be a race not an endurance test to see who can finish the race alive!

[ElizabethAngela]

I just want to add a few points to this debate, this is just stuff that I have heard/learnt from working at a racing yard for the past year...
First, the change in whip rules- many jockeys regard that as an unsafe change- WHen you are riding a race horse, with your short stirrups, your whip is a major tool for steering- I haven't ridden in a race, but I ride the horses out on exercise, you use your whip as a method of steering, especially going to a jump.
Also, remember these animals get the best, and swiftest veterinary attention, in the event of an injury.

Are there not bigger, more important issues in the veterinary world too? Perhaps it would be interesting to consider the many MANY equine deaths that are utterly preventable, such as obesity resulting in laminitis? Crippling, and often fatal? Why are we not angry about this? In terms of numbers of cases, and the agonizing suffering of the animals, to me, this is far worse.

I work in racing, and I now have a place at vet school, does this mean I don't love animals? I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just thought I would share mine.

[jacko111]

Anyone who knows horses would have known that Synchronised would not have been 100% after dumping his rider and running down the course. He should have been retired before the start of the race (better safe than sorry?). The vet if he had made that decision would probably have been *******ed by the owner and trainer! Should he have been entered in the national at all? Different debate.
The reason we are having this discussion is that millions around the world watch and bet on the National, apart from Cheltenham (where horses have again died this year) there are not many high profile NH races. The fact is that 550kg of TB falling on the ground is very likely to result in some kind of injury even if its only bruising. Look at Kauto Star in the Gold Cup. He was still feeling the bruising from a fall in training, he shouldn't have been put in the race. If the ground is firm more severe injuries and fatalities are likely to result.
More horses die in NH racing than on the flat for obvious reasons. Somewhere in Australia they have banned NH racing because of this.
Horses believe it or not are NOT natural jumpers, wild horses do not jump around the place like gazelles. Fallen horses if they can, will immediately get up and follow the "herd" this is fight or flight and a survival instinct. They will carry on following the herd including the jumps, where they commonly fall again as there is no jockey on board to help them.
This is a massive industry, equine casualties are part of the industry. Paul Nichols saying horses are as likely to be injured in the field..... absolute rubbish, he is not helping the sport with silly comments like that.
The question is do you support the sport and if you do can you cope with the fact that horses will suffer catastrophic injuries as a result. Its a very difficult question.

[schizopear]

(Original post by ElizabethAngela)
I just want to add a few points to this debate, this is just stuff that I have heard/learnt from working at a racing yard for the past year...
First, the change in whip rules- many jockeys regard that as an unsafe change- WHen you are riding a race horse, with your short stirrups, your whip is a major tool for steering- I haven't ridden in a race, but I ride the horses out on exercise, you use your whip as a method of steering, especially going to a jump.
Also, remember these animals get the best, and swiftest veterinary attention, in the event of an injury.

Are there not bigger, more important issues in the veterinary world too? Perhaps it would be interesting to consider the many MANY equine deaths that are utterly preventable, such as obesity resulting in laminitis? Crippling, and often fatal? Why are we not angry about this? In terms of numbers of cases, and the agonizing suffering of the animals, to me, this is far worse.

I work in racing, and I now have a place at vet school, does this mean I don't love animals? I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just thought I would share mine.

i don't think anyone is arguing that racing horses to death in the national is THE worst thing that happens, but just because there are worse crimes doesn't mean it isn't an awful thing to do. i personally think that there are equally awful atrocities committed in the name of dressage.

race horses are extremely valuable animals and usually cared for exceptionally well, which is why i don't disapprove of racing in general. i understand that it is a dangerous sport and the occasional death may be unavoidable - accidents happen. however, the grand national consistently kills and injures horses. it is a very high profile race with a huge prize fund and the welfare of the horses seems to become unimportant as a result.

[Lucy_x]

(Original post by schizopear)
i don't think anyone is arguing that racing horses to death in the national is THE worst thing that happens, but just because there are worse crimes doesn't mean it isn't an awful thing to do. i personally think that there are equally awful atrocities committed in the name of dressage.

race horses are extremely valuable animals and usually cared for exceptionally well, which is why i don't disapprove of racing in general. i understand that it is a dangerous sport and the occasional death may be unavoidable - accidents happen. however, the grand national consistently kills and injures horses. it is a very high profile race with a huge prize fund and the welfare of the horses seems to become unimportant as a result.

Bingo! I am not saying that I am anti racing, just don't agree with the national at all.

And I agree with jacko too

Just because there are worse things out there doesn't make this acceptable. It's kind of like saying.. We shouldn't pay attention to burglars because there are murderers out there. This is a very extreme example but the same thing is being applied.

I know race horses are very well looked after but that makes me question the gn even more. I fail to understand why they would risk entering an expensive horse that the grooms and riders will have their interests in, when it is practically inevitable that one will have to be killed

As for the whip rule.. Only a certain amount of hits are allowed. So they can use it for steering etc but just hit the horse less at the end surely

Thank you for the rep just find the grand national very hard to justify

[Lucy_x]

Also for you all to think about if you don't agree with the national either. My mum said to me what would I do if I was asked to be a vet at the race. Would you go because your interest is in the horses and you want to d what you can. Or would you not because you dont want part of it. Hmm

[SimBa14]

The problem is that the real issue isn't being dealt with by the appropriate regulating bodies. The number of horses running, as opposed to the height of the fences or the number of strokes of the whips allowed, is the major cause of falls and therefore deaths. Just look how many horses in the Grand National were brought down by other horses! The larger the number of competing jockeys the more likely an accident will happen which compounds the problem of more horses tripping over other horses (due to less space available to avoid the fallen horse and jockey, and the more horses racing increases the chances of one falling due to Jockey error). 15 horses finished the race! 15! These are professional jockeys riding well-trained, experienced horses! In 1928 only 2 jockeys finished the course, and that was after one remounted and then came in second. If a race has only 2 people finishing you know that something has to be changed, 40 horses is just too many. There were about 5 horses running with odds of 100-1, why were they in the race? With those odds all they're doing is increasing the risks to themselves and the other horses and jockeys participating in the race! I don't think 40 riders in one race can be justified, not with the level of horse fatalities we're seeing. I'm actually for horse racing and the Grand National, I enjoyed watching it (when I wasn't worrying every time a horse fell) but the number of entrees need to be reduced to a reasonable number filled with horses who have a decent chance of placing let alone finishing the race!