Angelina Jolie as Queen Cleopatra sparks race row

Scroll to see replies

Reply 40

TheLandOfNorwegia

Bilco

Why does anyone really care?

Because people like to fawn for attention by being false victims.

Reply 41

pina.Love

Jingers

Wasn't Cleopatra in fact Greek?

Egyptians = Africa, therefore black. This really only applies to those times though, despite the fact that there were still Arabs.

Edit: Before people get excited, Cleopatra was Greek, not Egyptian, so this thread is full of retard answers.

yeah she was from greece but it has been rumoured she has mixed ancestry, so she could have looked mix and not white.

Reply 42

AutVinceriAutMori

Tiberius

It's irrelevant. As it's a fictional character, the creators have the freedom to portray him however they wish.

Are you also against the black character in Merlin?

I presume you would be happy with black or asian actress to play Rapunzel and Snow White?

Reply 43

Lou*lou

Natha_Lite

Well the Nubians of Egypt were black.

The Nubians of Nubia were black. They traditional enemies of Egypt.The Egyptians depicted themselves as lighter than them. They also showed their women with lighter skin again- even white (only really the wealthy though) to show that they spent their time inside out of the sun not working.

for example:

Cleopatra VII was the descendent of the Macedonian General Ptolemy. The royal family had a habit of marrying their sisters and though we don't know for sure who Cleopatras mother was it is unlikely that she had that much Egyptian blood. Also outside of Egypt she often had herself depicted as Greek.

Just saying (this is what happens when you live with 4 egyptologists for a year lol)

Reply 44

Formica

Bishamon

No, you are stupid because you use a racial distribution map of the 1940's to justify the presence of certain populations in a kingdom thousands of years old. Logic and history not only defeats you, it slaps you around the face.

Ok, someone has already posted the book of gates image, just one example of Egyptian artwork not only showing Egyptians and Nubians as distinct, but Egyptians being brown coloured, not black. The only people I hear arguing for the black Egyptians idea are black people - those with a racial agenda wanting to prove this as a matter of pride. Africa is not a homogeneous continent, and the idea that Egyptians were like the sub-Saharan descended populations today known as 'Africans' is niave.

Reply 45

Locke54

God I hate ignorant people that kick off every time Cleopatra is portrayed as white. By all means promote the virtues of Africa and it's peoples but don't try to falsify history. Cleopatra was Greek descended from Greek people who only married within the Greek community of Egypt. Thus she was white, maybe with an olive complexion, maybe not. She certainly wasn't black.

Reply 46

Phalanges

One of the most successful cinematic roles was made by casting a black American as a white Irishman.

This also was an incredibly bad role for people to choose to start kicking up a fuss about it, giving that any claim that Cleopatra was black is at best tenuous.

Reply 47

Mr Sparkles

Bishamon

not too sure about that

regardless the argument seems rather inept, I thought it was rather well known cleopatra was a macedonian

Look at the nose and the skintone. Doesn't look black at all. Arab maybe, certainly not black.

Reply 48

Jingers

pina.Love

yeah she was from greece but it has been rumoured she has mixed ancestry, so she could have looked mix and not white.

She was the result of incest and familial inbreeding. Her family was all Greek.

Reply 49

TheLandOfNorwegia

AutVinceriAutMori

John Wayne as Ghengis Khan.

Because there were some huuuuuge megastar Mongolian actors back then, weren't there? They would make the film a financial prospect.

Reply 50

Tiberius

AutVinceriAutMori

I presume you would be happy with black or asian actress to play Rapunzel and Snow White?

It's a little different for a black actress to play Snow White because the original creation had specific references to a pale, white skin colour.

However, as she is a fictional character, there is still the freedom of creativity. So, if they decided to cast a black actress, I would just think it was some spin on the original story and wouldn't care.

Reply 51

Bilco

TheLandOfNorwegia

Because people like to fawn for attention by being false victims.

Ahh that old chestnut

Reply 52

RosesofEngland

Jingers

The egyptians are not sub saharan and are closer related to the middle eastern arab speaking semetics.

Do these egpytians look black to you

Reply 53

AutVinceriAutMori

Phalanges

What was the movie, and the actor? Casting black actors as white characters does happen, but how frequently compared to reverse?
I definitely remember Denzel Washington as Don Pedro, but can't find other examples

Reply 54

BeanofJelly

Tiberius

You cannot be serious?

Halle Berry, Whoopi Goldberg, Queen Latifah, Zoe Saldana, to name a few.

Yeah, they don't play lead roles, and when they do act - they always play slaves. :rolleyes:

No I don't mean black people can't have main roles, of course not - nor can they only play slaves :p:

See the post I quoted, it puts it better than I did. White people are frequently cast in roles where their race is totally wrong, but this doesn't really ever happen with black people. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that that is wholly due to racism*, but it is still unfair.

*Other reasons perhaps, it is easier to darken a white actor than to lighten a black actor, films more often portray white history/culture than that of other cultures, and if they do - ignorance about those cultures/history makes it easier to cast someone of the wrong race, more actors in English-speaking films are going to be white, because white is usually the more predominant race in english-speaking countries etc

(I disagree with the critics on this occasion, but I was trying to empathise)

Reply 55

RosesofEngland

Angelina Jolie is far, far more beautiful than any black woman could ever be.

Therefore the role should go to her.

Reply 56

vnupe

Lone Commissar

I understand that there is a tendencey to cast "ethnic" parts with white actors but the thing is, Cleopatra wasn't black, simple as. The entire Ptolemaic dynasty is mapped out and known to be Macedonian and they certainly weren't black. An argument could be made that we don't really know who her grandmother was but to assume that she must have been black would be stretching it and even then Cleopatra would only have been 1/4 "black" (afterall no reason to assume because they're unknown they must be defacto black).

Also, it would be worth pointing out that the Egyptians themselves (rather than they're Macedonian occupiers) always painted themselves a dark olive colour, lighter than the black Nubians to the south (who did actually rule Egypt for a certain period) but darker than the Libyans to the east. Basically, this writer should get their facts straight and actually complain when parts to go to white actors when they shouldn't.

Hold on a second, that is not entirely true:

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/cleopatra/a/was_cleopatra_black.htm

You would find that history is inconclusive as to which ethnic group she belonged too, so to definitely say she was not black, is incorrect.

In addition hollywood does has a well documented history of shall we say blurring lines when it comes to ethnicity and colour, one example would be the constant representation of Jesus as blond haired and blue eyes...

Reply 57

Jingers

Phalanges

One of the most successful cinematic roles was made by casting a black American as a white Irishman.

What movie was this? Sounds interesting.

Reply 58

BellaBoo

Cleopatra was of Greek origin wasn't she? So while i don't agree that the Ancient Egyptians were exclusively of European origin, Cleopatra herself was said to be so i don't see the problem with A Jolie playing her...