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Paedophilia - homosexuality parallels taboo
This poll is closed
Consensual, non-damaging sex with children should be ...
Legal12%
Illegal88%
Total votes: 119
Unfortunately, most people will read this, spout their prejudices and feel better about themselves.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
EDIT:
I'm now including my counterarguments against what people have said in the order they came up. Some of it is probably a little out of context
Manipulation:
1) So a guy has never bought a drink for a girl to get her drunk, pretended to be interested in her, lied to compliment her, bought her flowers, chocolates etc, or lied about themselves to make themselves look more interesting/appealing? These are all manipulative techniques to get a girl to have sex with him.
2) If the child wasn't manipulated into the sex then he/she might go to their parents and tell them that some man/woman just asked them to have sex. This would lead to prison sentence and never getting a job. Hence, the law necessitates the manipulation.
3) Manipulation of trust is just the negative way of saying getting someone to fall in love with you. Its how adult-adult relations form; you buy her dinner, you compliment her hair, tell her she's special and boom you have one groomed adult "in love" with you and willing to have sex with you.
Children making rational decisions:
1) Firstly, adults are often no better at this. Secondly, most children at any one time have never suffered from eating to much ice cream, so it would be irrational for them to stop eating ice cream. A child can't know whether sex will be bad until they've tried it for the first time, but most people are more or less adults when they have sex for the first time so there's no meaningful difference. If a child does not remotely enjoy sex then they will stop straight away, they will be rational. Adults on the other hand can be insane.
2) How can any of us decide when someone is ready for something? Your example of the vodka is funny because if a child drank too much vodka they would feel sick and not do it again. This I feel is the only way for a child to learn, we should not tell them or influence them in anyway about what they should and shouldn't do. A lot of adults on the other hand drink too much and feel sick then do it all over again the next night, all because our society encourages this. I'm not just talking about drinking but all cases where adults act, in my eyes, totally insane because of cultural conditioning. Children are not conditioned so they are much better at making rational decisions in my opinion.
Culture differences and conditioning:
1) I do know about the greek and romans, but its all a matter of cultural conditioning: ancient greeks might for example see the mixing of social classes in modern western society to be as disgusting as we see paedophilia in ancient greek society. You saying it is fundamentally wrong without giving reasons is a clear indicator of this.
2) I do believe this and asking whether I would have sex with a child, while it means a lot in our society, it is possible to imagine a society where it would be like asking me whether i would argue with my dad.
3) What is respectful or not depends on your culture, were you brought up in a culture where necrophilia was the norm I doubt you would have a serious problem with it. You don't have a problem with wearing clothes in the summer when it is totally unnecessary and indeed sometimes uncomfortable, yet you do it without question because it is the norm.
4) It is possible that there may be certain morals that are natural and instinctual, but I doubt it. I believe that morals are the product of the society, morals which you believe to be fundamental like no murder have been and still are perfectly acceptable in cultures different to your own (human sacrifice with Aztecs, the sacrifice volunteered and felt honoured by it).
5) Cultural conditioning is pretty strong, while you may have stopped believing in the Great Wizard of the Sky (atheism by the way is more than acceptable in our culture so I don't see how this is breaking cultural conditioning), I doubt you have dropped or even seriously questioned many of the more subtle and deeply ingrained Christian values like no stealing and killing.
Physical damage:
If it was truly impossible to ever have non-damaging sex with any child (which it is not; non-penetrative sex etc.) then sure, it should remain illegal.
If they then choose to have damaging sex then it is the fault of the people involved but this happens in adult-adult relations same as with adult child relations.
Psychological damage:
Imagine for a moment that you were someone who had had sex with an adult when you were a child. In our society you are being told every single day that you were a victim of the worst possible filthy and disgusting crime, so you start to believe it. This is where most the psychological problems come from and it is society's fault. The other possible cause of psychological damage is physical trauma during sex but I think we've discussed and resolved that issue.
I believe most adults are psychologically damaged by society anyway, like self-conciousness and sexual frustration (both of which ruin people's lives), that you are perhaps missing the bigger picture.
Maturity:
I've kind of already answered this. To me "maturity" means that society has broken you and you do what it tells you to do (get a high paying job, get married, have kids, don't kill anyone). To me maturity is just the sad mental condition of most adults. Table manners for example are generally irrational and unnecessary, and children hate them for their irrationality, but then you "mature" and you will forever keep your elbows off the table without good reason. Children have not been manipulated so they behave rationally. The fact that "they don't know the difference between good and evil" shows to me that this is the rational way to behave. No-one is crueller than a 10 year old.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
EDIT:
I'm now including my counterarguments against what people have said in the order they came up. Some of it is probably a little out of context
Manipulation:
1) So a guy has never bought a drink for a girl to get her drunk, pretended to be interested in her, lied to compliment her, bought her flowers, chocolates etc, or lied about themselves to make themselves look more interesting/appealing? These are all manipulative techniques to get a girl to have sex with him.
2) If the child wasn't manipulated into the sex then he/she might go to their parents and tell them that some man/woman just asked them to have sex. This would lead to prison sentence and never getting a job. Hence, the law necessitates the manipulation.
3) Manipulation of trust is just the negative way of saying getting someone to fall in love with you. Its how adult-adult relations form; you buy her dinner, you compliment her hair, tell her she's special and boom you have one groomed adult "in love" with you and willing to have sex with you.
Children making rational decisions:
1) Firstly, adults are often no better at this. Secondly, most children at any one time have never suffered from eating to much ice cream, so it would be irrational for them to stop eating ice cream. A child can't know whether sex will be bad until they've tried it for the first time, but most people are more or less adults when they have sex for the first time so there's no meaningful difference. If a child does not remotely enjoy sex then they will stop straight away, they will be rational. Adults on the other hand can be insane.
2) How can any of us decide when someone is ready for something? Your example of the vodka is funny because if a child drank too much vodka they would feel sick and not do it again. This I feel is the only way for a child to learn, we should not tell them or influence them in anyway about what they should and shouldn't do. A lot of adults on the other hand drink too much and feel sick then do it all over again the next night, all because our society encourages this. I'm not just talking about drinking but all cases where adults act, in my eyes, totally insane because of cultural conditioning. Children are not conditioned so they are much better at making rational decisions in my opinion.
Culture differences and conditioning:
1) I do know about the greek and romans, but its all a matter of cultural conditioning: ancient greeks might for example see the mixing of social classes in modern western society to be as disgusting as we see paedophilia in ancient greek society. You saying it is fundamentally wrong without giving reasons is a clear indicator of this.
2) I do believe this and asking whether I would have sex with a child, while it means a lot in our society, it is possible to imagine a society where it would be like asking me whether i would argue with my dad.
3) What is respectful or not depends on your culture, were you brought up in a culture where necrophilia was the norm I doubt you would have a serious problem with it. You don't have a problem with wearing clothes in the summer when it is totally unnecessary and indeed sometimes uncomfortable, yet you do it without question because it is the norm.
4) It is possible that there may be certain morals that are natural and instinctual, but I doubt it. I believe that morals are the product of the society, morals which you believe to be fundamental like no murder have been and still are perfectly acceptable in cultures different to your own (human sacrifice with Aztecs, the sacrifice volunteered and felt honoured by it).
5) Cultural conditioning is pretty strong, while you may have stopped believing in the Great Wizard of the Sky (atheism by the way is more than acceptable in our culture so I don't see how this is breaking cultural conditioning), I doubt you have dropped or even seriously questioned many of the more subtle and deeply ingrained Christian values like no stealing and killing.
Physical damage:
If it was truly impossible to ever have non-damaging sex with any child (which it is not; non-penetrative sex etc.) then sure, it should remain illegal.
If they then choose to have damaging sex then it is the fault of the people involved but this happens in adult-adult relations same as with adult child relations.
Psychological damage:
Imagine for a moment that you were someone who had had sex with an adult when you were a child. In our society you are being told every single day that you were a victim of the worst possible filthy and disgusting crime, so you start to believe it. This is where most the psychological problems come from and it is society's fault. The other possible cause of psychological damage is physical trauma during sex but I think we've discussed and resolved that issue.
I believe most adults are psychologically damaged by society anyway, like self-conciousness and sexual frustration (both of which ruin people's lives), that you are perhaps missing the bigger picture.
Maturity:
I've kind of already answered this. To me "maturity" means that society has broken you and you do what it tells you to do (get a high paying job, get married, have kids, don't kill anyone). To me maturity is just the sad mental condition of most adults. Table manners for example are generally irrational and unnecessary, and children hate them for their irrationality, but then you "mature" and you will forever keep your elbows off the table without good reason. Children have not been manipulated so they behave rationally. The fact that "they don't know the difference between good and evil" shows to me that this is the rational way to behave. No-one is crueller than a 10 year old.
Scroll to see replies
Fraser Monteeth
Unfortunately, most people will read this, spout their prejudices and feel better about themselves.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
This is the most stupid post i have ever read on TSR.
Why wont we legalise assault and such aswell, cuz ya know.. people do that for fun i.e boxing, so why shouldnt it be made legal everywhere?
Children DO NOT know what they are doing, they arent even taken as being able to decide between right and wrong til like somewhere around 11-13 i believe.
So ya know.. go sort out your ****** up mind.
Not trying to have a dig OP, but children are usually manipulated to make them think that they want the sex, or that it's normal or that they feel they are responsible for the abuse- meaning that they are not able to make rational decisions.
Fraser Monteeth
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Informed consent =/= consent.
Look up the words manipulation, bribery and abuse in the dictionary please.
Then come back and tell us if you still agree with your statement.
Then come back and tell us if you still agree with your statement.
abbi.blythe
Not trying to have a dig OP, but children are usually manipulated to make them think that they want the sex, or that it's normal or that they feel they are responsible for the abuse- meaning that they are not able to make rational decisions.
And this doesn't happen to women ALL the time?
Fraser Monteeth
And this doesn't happen to women ALL the time?
No this does not happen ALL the time to women.
Fraser Monteeth
And this doesn't happen to women ALL the time?
I have sex with my boyfriend
He has never manipulated me so that I think that I want it, I either do or don't
He doesn't abuse me....
WTF?
Women have sex because they want to
Fraser Monteeth
Unfortunately, most people will read this, spout their prejudices and feel better about themselves.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
I am not a paedophile, but i am bisexual. What i have noticed are the parallels between past attitudes on homosexuality and present attitudes on paedophilia. These include the evilness of it (sick, twisted etc.) the idea of consent (in the past people believed that homosexuals manipulated their way into sex) and how unnatural. Is it only a matter of the number of generations before people finally progress?
The main arguments i have heard against sex with children are either the issue of consent or the physical/mental damage done to the children.
Firstly, I would have to argue that a child is much better at knowing what he/she wants. Remember the clarity of the desire for an ice cream or sweets from when you were a child. If a child wants to have sex they will give consent. On the other hand, an adult has been conditioned for decades by everything around them into believing that they want things they shouldn't maybe want.
Secondly, what happens when two adults find sex painful? They stop and give it a rest. Someone who risks 30 odd years in prison for having sex with a child is also the kind of person who will willingly damage a child during sex. These are the equivalent of rapists in the paedophilia world. There are also rapists in the adult-adult sex world but they are the tiny minority and adult-adult sex isn't made illegal because of them, so why with paedophiles?
I've probably missed stuff out but nvm. If what I'm writing is pissing you off then please punch yourself in the balls/equivalent and get all the **** out your eyes.
So basically, consensual non-damaging sex with children should obviously be legal. Discuss.
This is certainly what is wrong with this website in the past few months.
A lot of ignorant people providing information which makes no sense / is not evidenced and is merely their own viewpoints.
The problem with the collaboration of both pedophilia and homosexual's is that homophobia will increase.
Make pedophilia legal? What? That is the most idiotic thing I've heard - ever....
Get a life - shut up - and read a book.
maybesBABY
No this does not happen ALL the time to women.
So a guy has never bought a drink for a girl to get her drunk, pretended to be interested in her, lied to compliment her, bought her flowers, chocolates etc, or lied about themselves to make themselves look more interesting/appealing? These are all manipulative techniques to get a girl to have sex with him.
The law says that children lack the capacity to give informed consent to sexual activity, therefore, any sexual activity with a child is non-consensual.
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