[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by emmings)
If you are predicted three As then please for goodness sake go to a proper university. I agree entirely with Alexander's post.

Is it honestly thought of that badly?

[Alexander]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)


Is it honestly thought of that badly?

Is there anything you would take issue with in my post above?

(Of course no one really knows how it'll be viewed as the first students are yet to graduate, but I think I offered a reasonable prediction)

[TommehR]

I completely agree with emmings and Alexander. Anybody with even semi-decent grades would be crazy to go to BPP for their LLB over a 'proper' university. Law firms and chambers are inherently conservative places that are likely to be suspicious of the BPP's LLB for a number of years, until it has proved its worthiness.

Alexander makes a number of important points that you should take into account. Perhaps most importantly, if the LLB is just an 'enhanced' version of the GDL and taught by the same people then it won't be offering the same experience that you will get at a proper university. From what I have heard there is a lot of spoonfeeding on the GDL which is completely at odds with what a university education should be about.

[barackosama]

Loads of assumptions here, surely the only way to know whether or not chambers would consider the LLB to be on par with other universities is to go and ask them? I don't really think people would be mad to go here with decent grades, there are people on my course from top universities who had to leave for personal reasons, the course is flexible, can be done in two years, no peer pressure to go out and piss money away, free coffee, etc. I don't really think it's a simple argument to make. The course is fairly spoon-fed, all lectures and tuts/sems are online and we get the manuals from the GDL, but that said, the coursework is as you would expect and there are large projects on statute/cases in the first term, in other words, all the necessary skills need to be proven. I get by without really using text books but watching the lectures and highlighting the statute books, then making up some notes and adding a few decent cases from the textbook which might help in the exam. Surely, then, it’s up to the student? Chambers, even top London criminal ones, interview applicants from all kinds of places, even places such as Portsmouth. If you have a flair for advocacy then you're in for a chance, especially if you can do something like get a first in two years. Of course, the same is true for any university, as chambers, or at least most of them, want solid tenants, not people who managed to get into UCL when they were 18....

[barackosama]

(Original post by Alexander)
I can think of quite a few reasons myself.

Firstly, it's completely new course and thus untested. Top law firms are notoriously conservative about this sort of thing -- which is why the bulk of trainees come from a small number of top universities.

Really, any proof or is that just another assumption? Isn't it more likely that top firms employ people from top unis because those people are the top students? Untested for what, whether it leaks water? The course leader's a legal expert.


Secondly, I get the impression that entry standards to the course are pretty low compared to most undergrad Law courses. We all know (whether rightly or wrongly) the competitiveness of entry to an undergraduate course is reflected in the perceived value of the qualification it awards.

i.e. the student body are slow? think again, it's not as bad as you would think. no doubt, if it were in somewhere like Swansea it would be a different story...

Thirdly, undergraduate degrees are very different from the GDL and LPC; law firms will probably want to see that their future trainees have brains before they put them through the mindless hoop-jumping of GDL/LPC. If the BPP LLB really is just an expanded version of BPP's GDL course I doubt that'd satisfy many law firms.

Can you explain the difference between the GDL and an LLB - or at least, why an LLB is less hoopy jumpy than the GDL.

Additionally, who's teaching it? I can't imagine BPP's picked up any great law academics, and it certainly doesn't have PhD students to perform some of the tuition. If it's just the same ex-practitioners who teach the GDL, as good as they might be at that they're unlikely really to have the purely academic expertise to run a decent undergrad course.


Well one person went to cambridge, got a first, became a commercial barrister and thought, why bother? he mentioned Treital once or twice during contract but that's about it. there's not much academic stuff on the course, apart from in the academic modules, where the staff have spend the last 30 years reading books on the subject..... the staff are retired barristers, no QCs or PhDs here but what does that matter, I could teach undergrad law, it's piss easy once you've learnt it once.

In short, I reckon anyone with other options would be unwise to pick BPP.

[TommehR]

(Original post by barackosama)
Really, any proof or is that just another assumption? Isn't it more likely that top firms employ people from top unis because those people are the top students? Untested for what, whether it leaks water? The course leader's a legal expert.

Untested for whether it will produce graduates of a high calibre, something that is very strongly linked to the quality of teaching provided by the university. Nobody really knows what the quality and consistency of teaching will be like on BPP's LLB. It might turn out to be utterly fantastic, but you run that risk that it isn't and you end up with a worthless degree, whereas traditional universities of decades and decades of experience.

(Original post by barackosama)
i.e. the student body are slow? think again, it's not as bad as you would think. no doubt, if it were in somewhere like Swansea it would be a different story...

It stands to reason that an LLB that has stringent academic entry requirements (i.e. a top 20 university) is going to have more academically gifted students than an LLB that has no such requirements (i.e. BPP). That's not to say that everyone at BPP is slow and dumb, rather that on average the students at a top 20 university are going to be more academically gifted. This is surely recognised by top firms and chambers which is why those universities are so heavily targeted.

(Original post by barackosama)
Can you explain the difference between the GDL and an LLB - or at least, why an LLB is less hoopy jumpy than the GDL.

I can't speak for every university, but at my university there was very, very little spoon-feeding. You were expected to read hundreds of pages of cases, journal articles, statutes and textbooks, formulate your own opinions on them and then argue your viewpoint with tutors and other students. Very rarely were we just told 'this is the answer, regurgitate it in an exam' as can be the case with BPP.

Your undergraduate degree should be about studying something that you are interested in, expanding your horizons and having your opinions challenged. The specifics of what you learn are not nearly as important as the analytical skills that you develop. By spoonfeeding you the answer, BPP seem to only be concerned with teaching you specific things to help you pass exams rather than helping you to develop these analytical skills. I guess that's good if you just view the LLB in the same way as the LPC: a hoop to be jumped through.

(Original post by barackosama)
Well one person went to cambridge, got a first, became a commercial barrister and thought, why bother? he mentioned Treital once or twice during contract but that's about it. there's not much academic stuff on the course, apart from in the academic modules, where the staff have spend the last 30 years reading books on the subject..... the staff are retired barristers, no QCs or PhDs here but what does that matter, I could teach undergrad law, it's piss easy once you've learnt it once.

So you're taught by people who couldn't be bothered with being barristers/solicitors any more? At most top universities you will be taught by people who have a real interest in academia and teaching, whether they are tenured professors or PhD candidates. These aren't people who are going down the teaching route as a fallback option. No doubt, as you say, anybody could teach BPP's LLB if it just a case of spoonfeeding information, but I think that being a good teacher on a 'proper' undergraduate course is quite different to being a barrister/solicitor.

[barackosama]

killed. but that's why BPPs course isn't the same as other courses, not why it's not good. I was either gonna study philosophy or law, and chose law. I can read books on philosophy in the evening if I like, if I want to 'expand my horizons'. I don't see why jumping through the hoops is such a bad thing - they are the type of hoops lawyers jump through....... the next argument could be that all lawyers should study astrophysics to become more openminded...

[propatria]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but this popped up when I first googled BPP's LLB and to be fair quite a lot of what people are saying is utter nonsense (i.e. seriously think about a low university rather than BPP), I study at BPP, and yes the entrance standards weren't tough however the pace is and already people who got in by the skin of their teeth are struggling with it. I know that people struggling isn't a great thing but it does show that the course isn't as easy as some people would have you believe.
I'm studying the 2 year accelerated and every firm or chambers I've spoke to (2 vacation placements: 1 magic circle, 1 silver circle and 2 mini pupillages: 1 criminal and 1 at a respected commercial chancery chambers) have said they know BPP's LLB is quite young but given the calibre of students coming out of its BPTC and LPC they don't see a problem with it since many of the lecturers are the same and it already has a respectability for those courses, sure it's not Oxbridge but you do go to a Law focused university with a lot of firms and chambers coming in to give talks (3 or 4 a week) and they mentioned that the pace of the 2 year accelerated would also be seen as a major plus point in their eyes. You get intense personal lectures from lecturers that have all been in practice, some in very high flying firms, and the opportunities offered are pretty hard to beat, I was explaining the programme BPP have regarding firms and chambers visiting to a friend of mine who is Law Soc President at a Red Brick Uni and she was impressed by the number of visits from high calibre firms BPP receive.
However I must say that if you want a typical drinking and partying Uni experience BPP is not for you, Freshers week was called Headstart week and consisted of a drinks reception with the lecturers at the end of the first day and that was it regarding social events, there are plans to organise a "civilized" freshers involving visits to nice bars and a few meals out however. Also the fact they don't provide accommodation can make a social life hard in a new city as you can miss out on the freshers week halls vibe, but if you want to get your head down and study it's only for 2 or 3 years then you have the rest of your life to enjoy yourself, therefore I would recommend BPP to anyone considering a professionally orientated LLB that will prepare you for practice.

The LLB is at a focused Law School where you rub shoulders with BPTC, LPC and GDL students who are happy to advise and help you, all textbooks are provided as part of your course fees, the Library is amazing, the Careers service are extremely helpful and you gain preferential treatment when it comes to applying for LPC courses at BPP. I would challenge most other Unis to try and match the level of support and focus that BPP provide

Get a good 2:1 or first from anywhere and you will be looked at relatively favourably when it comes to job hunting, and if you are worried about BPP's prestige then aim for a first and take an postgrad course from Oxford or Cambridge to make it clear you haven't taken an easy LLB.

[Wakasmasood]

(Original post by propatria)
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but this popped up when I first googled BPP's LLB and to be fair quite a lot of what people are saying is utter nonsense (i.e. seriously think about a low university rather than BPP), I study at BPP, and yes the entrance standards weren't tough however the pace is and already people who got in by the skin of their teeth are struggling with it. I know that people struggling isn't a great thing but it does show that the course isn't as easy as some people would have you believe.
I'm studying the 2 year accelerated and every firm or chambers I've spoke to (2 vacation placements: 1 magic circle, 1 silver circle and 2 mini pupillages: 1 criminal and 1 at a respected commercial chancery chambers) have said they know BPP's LLB is quite young but given the calibre of students coming out of its BPTC and LPC they don't see a problem with it since many of the lecturers are the same and it already has a respectability for those courses, sure it's not Oxbridge but you do go to a Law focused university with a lot of firms and chambers coming in to give talks (3 or 4 a week) and they mentioned that the pace of the 2 year accelerated would also be seen as a major plus point in their eyes. You get intense personal lectures from lecturers that have all been in practice, some in very high flying firms, and the opportunities offered are pretty hard to beat, I was explaining the programme BPP have regarding firms and chambers visiting to a friend of mine who is Law Soc President at a Red Brick Uni and she was impressed by the number of visits from high calibre firms BPP receive.
However I must say that if you want a typical drinking and partying Uni experience BPP is not for you, Freshers week was called Headstart week and consisted of a drinks reception with the lecturers at the end of the first day and that was it regarding social events, there are plans to organise a "civilized" freshers involving visits to nice bars and a few meals out however. Also the fact they don't provide accommodation can make a social life hard in a new city as you can miss out on the freshers week halls vibe, but if you want to get your head down and study it's only for 2 or 3 years then you have the rest of your life to enjoy yourself, therefore I would recommend BPP to anyone considering a professionally orientated LLB that will prepare you for practice.

The LLB is at a focused Law School where you rub shoulders with BPTC, LPC and GDL students who are happy to advise and help you, all textbooks are provided as part of your course fees, the Library is amazing, the Careers service are extremely helpful and you gain preferential treatment when it comes to applying for LPC courses at BPP. I would challenge most other Unis to try and match the level of support and focus that BPP provide

Get a good 2:1 or first from anywhere and you will be looked at relatively favourably when it comes to job hunting, and if you are worried about BPP's prestige then aim for a first and take an postgrad course from Oxford or Cambridge to make it clear you haven't taken an easy LLB.

Hi,

Since your on the 2 year course what are your holidays like if you don't mind me asking? I heard that you hardly have a summer off? I'm really attracted to doing law at bpp especially the law lbb 2 year course but I would like to go aboard a lot like I usually do especially when I go in the summer for upto 8 weeks back home to see family. Would be great if you could shed some light on this, also how are the lectuers and seminars?

Wakas

[MS-91]

Hi,

A few people I know are doing the LLB in 2 years, I know that they do not get a summer break because you work [when I say work, I mean study] through it. I beleive that they only get 3 weeks summer break after their semester 3 exams in august.

I am a student ambassador at BPP and if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask.

[Craig100]

I can tell you right now that Slaughter and May say you MUST have studied AT LEAST your LPC with BPP Law School. I have applied for Business Law in 2012 because of the excellent links that they have with 'magic circle' firms in London. Many law firms in London take trainees EXCLUSIVELY from BPP.

Hope this helped!

[scribble_girl]

(Original post by propatria)
Get a good 2:1 or first from anywhere and you will be looked at relatively favourably when it comes to job hunting, and if you are worried about BPP's prestige then aim for a first and take an postgrad course from Oxford or Cambridge to make it clear you haven't taken an easy LLB.

Surely by that logic you could go to Oxford or Cambridge to do your law undergrad and then go off and do your LPC at BPP? The route you're outlining above involves spending unnecessary time and money to mitigate your choice of university - if you're needing to do that it rather says something about your own perception of the BPP LLB course....

[TurboCretin]

My view is that if you have an option to go to a better-established university you should take it. Especially if it's 1994 Group and up.

[TurboCretin]

(Original post by Craig100)
I can tell you right now that Slaughter and May say you MUST have studied AT LEAST your LPC with BPP Law School. Many law firms in London take trainees EXCLUSIVELY from BPP.

It's not unusual for firms to require you to take your LPC at a particular institution, but nobody takes BPP's LLB graduates exclusively.

[fredericmoreau]

(Original post by Craig100)
I can tell you right now that Slaughter and May say you MUST have studied AT LEAST your LPC with BPP Law School. I have applied for Business Law in 2012 because of the excellent links that they have with 'magic circle' firms in London. Many law firms in London take trainees EXCLUSIVELY from BPP.

Hope this helped!

I think you are taking things rather too literally. You may actually mean that Slaughter and May prefer non-law graduates to study for their post-graduate legal qualifications at BPP. BPP has a track record for churning out GDLs, it is centrally located, no-frills and solid, and provides tailored LPCs with a commercial/firm specific edge. These are the reasons firms prefer BPP, not because BPP is in any way prestigious.

[jjarvis]

(Original post by Craig100)
I can tell you right now that Slaughter and May say you MUST have studied AT LEAST your LPC with BPP Law School. I have applied for Business Law in 2012 because of the excellent links that they have with 'magic circle' firms in London. Many law firms in London take trainees EXCLUSIVELY from BPP.

Hope this helped!

This is wrong.

If I am already studying the GDL or LPC at another institution (ie not BPP Law School), am I still eligible to apply?
Yes, all applications are welcome.

If I have already started studying the GDL or LPC at the time of accepting my training contract offer, will I have to withdraw from the institution if it is not a named Slaughter and May provider?
If you are part-way through the course, you may continue your studies at that institution. However, if you have not yet begun your studies, we will ask you to move to BPP Law School.

http://www.slaughterandmay.com/caree...tion-faqs.aspx

There is no law firm that takes trainees exclusively from BPP. There are a number of firms which require trainees who have not commenced the GDL to undertake the GDL at BPP, and a number of firms which require students who have not taken the LPC to take it through BPP.

[cocacola2]

(Original post by Craig100)
I can tell you right now that Slaughter and May say you MUST have studied AT LEAST your LPC with BPP Law School. I have applied for Business Law in 2012 because of the excellent links that they have with 'magic circle' firms in London. Many law firms in London take trainees EXCLUSIVELY from BPP.

Hope this helped!

(Original post by jjarvis)
This is wrong.





http://www.slaughterandmay.com/caree...tion-faqs.aspx

There is no law firm that takes trainees exclusively from BPP. There are a number of firms which require trainees who have not commenced the GDL to undertake the GDL at BPP, and a number of firms which require students who have not taken the LPC to take it through BPP.

What jjarvis said.

It's also a case of firms saving money by sending their trainees to a certain law school (bulk discount).

[MS-91]

I thought I would add on the point, of the GDL 'churning'.. I disagree with the descriptive word used, however BPP does produce many GDL's and this is merely from my experience of seeing many.

The 'no frills' description to an extent is true as they create their own books that deal with the core legal subjects and they very much get to the point. Many of the LLB'ers find them very useful... although it is not recommended that they use them because naturally they do not go into enough depth as you would need studying an LLB compared to that of a GDL.

I am a Student Ambassador at BPP, and would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

[propatria]

I don't think going to BPP for your LLB will have any bearing on companies that want BPP LPC's at all, and the Business Law degree is actually the same as the normal Law degree albeit with more compulsory and a lot less optional module choices. You have a lot more freedom to pick modules if you chose the standard Law degree.
I'm not trying to claim it's the premier institution for LLB's I'm merely saying that it's not as bad as "if you get offers from anywhere else go there" it's a well taught degree that employers have no problem with, and in fact whilst on mini pupillage I was told that a number of larger chambers and solicitors firms were watching the most recent graduates carefully to rate it, however due to the teaching staff they were expecting good results. Once again I'm not claiming it will dethrone any great names but I think due to it's specialist nature and record so far in the legal field to put it down at the bottom of the tables isn't fair really.
At the end of the day due to various reasons doing my law degree in 2 years was the best option for me and BPP was the best provider available for this 2 year style. The two year degree is not inferior to the 3 year either as in fact it requires more focus as you have no extended between term breaks

and regarding BPP creating their own books, all the books i've been issued with are relatively standard LLB textbooks that are used by a number of other law schools?

[Rancorous]

(Original post by TommehR)
I can't speak for every university, but at my university there was very, very little spoon-feeding. You were expected to read hundreds of pages of cases, journal articles, statutes and textbooks, formulate your own opinions on them and then argue your viewpoint with tutors and other students. Very rarely were we just told 'this is the answer, regurgitate it in an exam' as can be the case with BPP.

Your undergraduate degree should be about studying something that you are interested in, expanding your horizons and having your opinions challenged. The specifics of what you learn are not nearly as important as the analytical skills that you develop. By spoonfeeding you the answer, BPP seem to only be concerned with teaching you specific things to help you pass exams rather than helping you to develop these analytical skills. I guess that's good if you just view the LLB in the same way as the LPC: a hoop to be jumped through.

So you're taught by people who couldn't be bothered with being barristers/solicitors any more? At most top universities you will be taught by people who have a real interest in academia and teaching, whether they are tenured professors or PhD candidates. These aren't people who are going down the teaching route as a fallback option. No doubt, as you say, anybody could teach BPP's LLB if it just a case of spoonfeeding information, but I think that being a good teacher on a 'proper' undergraduate course is quite different to being a barrister/solicitor.

As bolded, that's exactly what law degrees are. Reading hundreds of pages of useless material to pick out a total of about 3 or 4 pages of salient points. That's useless, not character building. BPP makes you learn the useful things you need to know in practice, rather than the useless bits you don't and debating utter pointless and obscure things which no one in reality cares a diddle about. Those taking the GDL often can know more relevant law than those taking 3 year law degrees, because the GDL is more fresh in their minds, but also because the emphasis is on the knowledge and not finding the knowledge as it is in a law degree.

As for studying something you're interested in, 99% of law students don't find their law degrees interesting as a whole; they find it boring, at best tolerable and only aspects of certain modules to be interesting. 99% of law students harbor an intention of going into practice, even if they decide ultimately it's not for them.

Finally, academics as anyone who has been to university knows, are not usually the best teachers. Lots of academics couldn't give a toss about teaching really. Often they see teaching as secondary to their research. I'd often give in essays to some of the most highly respected academics in their field in the country; I wouldn't get them back for weeks on end, and when I did get them back, the feedback was minimal. I'd actually rather take my chances with a barrister who has actually practiced the law he teaches -- the only really useful aspect of the law is how it operates in practice and barristers are usually proven public speakers and are people friendly. Being a lawyer means having as a professional on a daily basis often having to explain and describe to law in a simple way so clients can understand; being an academic usually means you've have spent 3 years doing a doctorate in an area which nobody really cares about spending your time since writing articles/books on obscure things which often you'll never even teach, and then doing about 2 hours of lecturing a week (often not even taking tutorials, leaving that to PhD students and outside barristers).

I wouldn't be so snobby about BBP, I'd look to its real benefits if I were applying today. I reckon it will only get more and more desirable as people realise it's a good deal unlike they're vastly overpriced other courses. The careers team there will be ex HR from top law firms, you're not going to get many people who are better.