[ch0llima]

Dropping in here very briefly because I'm trying to give the game another chance, but one thing: Mutalisk is OP - it costs sod all, it's too fast, the splash damage is quita a lot really and once you've got 20+ and upgraded them it's gg because you need ridiculous brute force to counter it.

Discuss. I read somewhere that Blizzard themselves stated that the Muta is misused and they never intended it to be spammed en masse (rather it's to be used in small numbers for harrass), but that's what's happened and no nerf.

[Rubgish]

(Original post by ch0llima)
Dropping in here very briefly because I'm trying to give the game another chance, but one thing: Mutalisk is OP - it costs sod all, it's too fast, the splash damage is quita a lot really and once you've got 20+ and upgraded them it's gg because you need ridiculous brute force to counter it.

Discuss. I read somewhere that Blizzard themselves stated that the Muta is misused and they never intended it to be spammed en masse (rather it's to be used in small numbers for harrass), but that's what's happened and no nerf.

Mutalisk is a low-skill high-return unit when used en-masse. Generally speaking, if you get a whole bunch of them up, then it doesn't take much skill to just move them around till you find a gap and can destroy an entire mineral line/a bunch of separated units. Conversely, it takes an awful lot of skill to split your units/get them in the correct place and use abilities at the right time.

It is also the case that in a high-skill vs high-skill situation, generally the mutalisks will lose. So while it is balanced at the high-level, at the low-skill vs low-skill, you get pretty screwed against it.

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by Rubgish)
Mutalisk is a low-skill high-return unit when used en-masse. Generally speaking, if you get a whole bunch of them up, then it doesn't take much skill to just move them around till you find a gap and can destroy an entire mineral line/a bunch of separated units. Conversely, it takes an awful lot of skill to split your units/get them in the correct place and use abilities at the right time.

It is also the case that in a high-skill vs high-skill situation, generally the mutalisks will lose. So while it is balanced at the high-level, at the low-skill vs low-skill, you get pretty screwed against it.

Depends on whether the other player scouts it out. They can be countered, provided you remember what to do. A decent enough macro game can bat away most mass mutalisks as far as I can remember but I could be wrong on this.

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by ch0llima)
Dropping in here very briefly because I'm trying to give the game another chance, but one thing: Mutalisk is OP - it costs sod all, it's too fast, the splash damage is quita a lot really and once you've got 20+ and upgraded them it's gg because you need ridiculous brute force to counter it.

Discuss. I read somewhere that Blizzard themselves stated that the Muta is misused and they never intended it to be spammed en masse (rather it's to be used in small numbers for harrass), but that's what's happened and no nerf.

Learn to play. Mutas are generally a bad unit. in every matchup infestors are a better alternative. thors and marines sread mutas like its nothing. It's not hard to deflect mutas. Whilst protoss have a whole bunch of 10minute or less timings which will punish Spire play. Even if the Zerg gets mutas up, cannons and blink stalkers should buy enough time until storm and archons are up. Dont cry about imbalance when the chances are youre in silver league.

[Rubgish]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
Learn to play. Mutas are generally a bad unit. in every matchup infestors are a better alternative. thors and marines sread mutas like its nothing. It's not hard to deflect mutas. Whilst protoss have a whole bunch of 10minute or less timings which will punish Spire play. Even if the Zerg gets mutas up, cannons and blink stalkers should buy enough time until storm and archons are up. Dont cry about imbalance when the chances are youre in silver league.

So, I'm guessing you're in grandmaster and play at the highest level in international tournaments right? There is absolutely no reason to be rude to get your point across.

[RooT_Fifteen]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
Learn to play. Mutas are generally a bad unit. in every matchup infestors are a better alternative. thors and marines sread mutas like its nothing. It's not hard to deflect mutas. Whilst protoss have a whole bunch of 10minute or less timings which will punish Spire play. Even if the Zerg gets mutas up, cannons and blink stalkers should buy enough time until storm and archons are up. Dont cry about imbalance when the chances are youre in silver league.

Despite infesters being favoured over mutas by the EU zerg players currently, they are not "generally a bad unit", Esp. v Terran. With the 1.4 ghost nerf, coupled by the overused infester based play, it will give zerg much needed mid game map control.

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by RooT_Fifteen)
Despite infesters being favoured over mutas by the EU zerg players currently, they are not "generally a bad unit", Esp. v Terran. With the 1.4 ghost nerf, coupled by the overused infester based play, it will give zerg much needed mid game map control.

Yeah, but infestors actually can kill marines. and sooner or later you will be getting infestors and hive tech. The fact is, in no way are mutas op. If you cant deal with mutas, don't cry about them, learn to deal with them.

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by Rubgish)
So, I'm guessing you're in grandmaster and play at the highest level in international tournaments right? There is absolutely no reason to be rude to get your point across.

No I'm masters. People need to stop crying about imbalance cause they don't know how starcraft is played.

[lubus]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
No I'm masters. People need to stop crying about imbalance cause they don't know how starcraft is played.

z op

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by lubus)
z op

QQ

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
QQ

lol u iz troll plz return 2 cavwe

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by ANARCHY__)
lol u iz troll plz return 2 cavwe

lul, you iz bad plz return to silv3r l3ague.

[ch0llima]

I realise OVERCAPITALISED is joking, but to be honest, this is the sort of attitude which puts me off playing the game at all and the BNet forums in particular are full of that ****e. If you're not at least Masters your opinion is null and void and you're ridiculed for trying to improve. You very rarely hear this stuff from the pros, incidentally.

lolnoob l2p rofl u r HORRIBLE at this game... everyone who says this is a Terran because in lower leagues Terran requires absolutely zilch skill. Seriously, I'd never played Terran and tried them for a laugh - won 4 games in a row without even trying and all I did was crank out marines.

[ANARCHY__]

(Original post by ch0llima)
I realise OVERCAPITALISED is joking, but to be honest, this is the sort of attitude which puts me off playing the game at all and the BNet forums in particular are full of that ****e. If you're not at least Masters your opinion is null and void and you're ridiculed for trying to improve. You very rarely hear this stuff from the pros, incidentally.

lolnoob l2p rofl u r HORRIBLE at this game... everyone who says this is a Terran because in lower leagues Terran requires absolutely zilch skill. Seriously, I'd never played Terran and tried them for a laugh - won 4 games in a row without even trying and all I did was crank out marines.

I think balance is a difficult and tricky issue for anyone apart from professionals to talk about. There are people who advocate any one side is OP and people who say it is balanced, people who point out specific units and etc. In my honest opinion, I believe it's really not apparent in the lower leagues who or what is better.

Balance really becomes an issue when subtle movements and placement is more prevalent in the higher leagues which is why I personally feel a little uncomfortable about people having this debate; in my view, it's not relevant below high Masters or Grandmasters.

Understandably, people will get frustrated at losing but the best way to get past this for me anyway is to look at mistakes and use them build on performance. Balance really shouldn't figure into the debate until there is an opportunity for it to be one of the few factors affecting your game which I don't believe is the case for anyone below the leagues I mentioned.

[The 31st]

I think people usually mistake "balance" with "the ever-changing state of the game that is dictating certain moves that players need to do, but are unfamiliar with".

Starcraft is not a game with endless possibilities. Every style you attempt comes with a certain "set of moves" or maneuvers you need to do (adjusted for what the opponent does). So if you play a certain style and you do not do the correct actions that comes with that style, you're going to hit a rock-wall.

If we go back to my first definition, the reason people are complaining about balance is usually because they keep playing an obsolete playstyle, after a patch has changed the state of the game. They lose, because their perspective of how the game "should be played" is distorted in relationship to how the game actually is.

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by ch0llima)
I realise OVERCAPITALISED is joking, but to be honest, this is the sort of attitude which puts me off playing the game at all and the BNet forums in particular are full of that ****e. If you're not at least Masters your opinion is null and void and you're ridiculed for trying to improve. You very rarely hear this stuff from the pros, incidentally.

lolnoob l2p rofl u r HORRIBLE at this game... everyone who says this is a Terran because in lower leagues Terran requires absolutely zilch skill. Seriously, I'd never played Terran and tried them for a laugh - won 4 games in a row without even trying and all I did was crank out marines.

Low league players often jump to conclusions because they don't know how the game is played. Instead of complaining they should be focusing on improving. Everyone makes mistakes, so win or lose you will always have something to improve on. If people didn't make ridiculous statements they wouldn't be ridiculed.

[Lozzaa]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
Low league players often jump to conclusions because they don't know how the game is played. Instead of complaining they should be focusing on improving. Everyone makes mistakes, so win or lose you will always have something to improve on. If people didn't make ridiculous statements they wouldn't be ridiculed.

The biggest problem with SC2 is thus;

"Starcraft requires a huge amount of APM click speed to play at a high level, and only players who are super great at that really get to innovate in the strategy space (also bad players playing against bad players can get away with more strats). He wishes that thinking about new strategies had more relative importance to the common player than high APM does."

TL;DR Starcraft is a game of execution, not strategy.

(before the hate comes in, I was platinum - and I stopped playing when I realised the only *genuine* way for me to get better was to simply improve my execution. Nothing else. Hell, I could have even done ****tier strategies if my execution improved...)

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by Lozzaa)
The biggest problem with SC2 is thus;

"Starcraft requires a huge amount of APM click speed to play at a high level, and only players who are super great at that really get to innovate in the strategy space (also bad players playing against bad players can get away with more strats). He wishes that thinking about new strategies had more relative importance to the common player than high APM does."

TL;DR Starcraft is a game of execution, not strategy.

(before the hate comes in, I was platinum - and I stopped playing when I realised the only *genuine* way for me to get better was to simply improve my execution. Nothing else. Hell, I could have even done ****tier strategies if my execution improved...)

That's not really a problem. Execution takes far more skill than strategy. The fact that Starcraft is a game of Execution is the reason why it's so competitive. Strategy can be thought of in an instant, execution is what you do all game long. If you could win simply by having a better strategy whilst having terrible execution, i wouldn't play the game. If you want to play a game that relies more on strategy and doesn't punish poor mechanics, go play Company of heroes.

[Lozzaa]

(Original post by OVERCAPITALISED)
That's not really a problem. Execution takes far more skill than strategy. The fact that Starcraft is a game of Execution is the reason why it's so competitive. Strategy can be thought of in an instant, execution is what you do all game long. If you could win simply by having a better strategy whilst having terrible execution, i wouldn't play the game. If you want to play a game that relies more on strategy and doesn't punish poor mechanics, go play Company of heroes.

"That's not really a problem. Execution takes far more skill than strategy."

It's a completely different skillset. One (execution) is mechanical and is obtained through hours of repetitive practise whilst the other is more innate and flux (i.e. adapting to the opponent). I'm not saying it's a bad game - just that if someone wants to get better they are probably better of practising their execution (even in single player) for hours on end than thinking about strategy. That is why I stopped playing - the gap from platinum to diamond (this was before masters, too) was pretty much "who has practised their clicking more!". Also, CoH is great!

[OVERCAPITALISED]

(Original post by Lozzaa)
"That's not really a problem. Execution takes far more skill than strategy."

It's a completely different skillset. One (execution) is mechanical and is obtained through hours of repetitive practise whilst the other is more innate and flux (i.e. adapting to the opponent). I'm not saying it's a bad game - just that if someone wants to get better they are probably better of practising their execution (even in single player) for hours on end than thinking about strategy. That is why I stopped playing - the gap from platinum to diamond (this was before masters, too) was pretty much "who has practised their clicking more!". Also, CoH is great!

I think you misunderstand. Starcraft takes a lot of strategy, but it essential to have good mechanics. You can have great strategy and lose every game because of bad mechanics. You see this in a lot with low league players. They have APMs of over 100 but they lose because their game plan is bad. For you to move from platinum to diamond, you probably would of had to improve your mechanics and your build orders and your decision making. Also good execution requires a huge amount of skill. The ability to macro, whilst positioning your units in battle, making sure you have the concave, whilst using units abilities, whilst making key decisions is what makes Starcraft great.