How will you vote in the Alternative Vote Referendum?

The only solution to that is an English Parliament. All nations will benefit from the introduction of an English Parliament. Sadly, there is only one party (the English Democrats) that is actively pushing for this. It simply isn't fair that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland get their own governing powers yet the country with the largest population (by a very, very long way) gets zilch.

Since when did i say that people were too stupid to rank their top choices? It's more of a case of a new system being introduced that would take some getting used to, and some people who could only just drag themselves out to vote before may not be bothered if it's a whole different system. Nothing to do with being stupid, or me being stupid, *******.

What a fabulous retort.

Yay, lets vote AV and give the LibDems the choice of king maker every time!

If you're suggesting people are so stupid that they'd rather stay at home because their voting system is slightly more complicated, then ..

Your post was largely garbage, i just didn't want to waste time explaining why

I don't see why i need to retort to be honest. There was nothing you said in your post that countered mine. You tried to play semantics, but you're only replacing stupid with lazy and really there isn't much difference when it comes to voting between a lazy voter who doesn't express his viewpoint and a stupid one who doesn't express his viewpoint. If anything it could be argued that a lazy voter is usually a stupid one. I guess i could refine my post by saying: if you're suggesting people are so stupid / lazy that they'd rather stay at home because their voting system is slightly more complicated, then ..

Having said that, in the UK public apathy is very high, largely due to the fact that a huge number of votes are wasted. This system remedies that to a small degree. If full PR was brought in the whole safe seat concept would disappear and a lot more people would vote, as their vote would actually count. Likewise with STV, as people everywhere could express their preferences rather than have to vote tactically and dishonestly.

When did i say that people were too stupid to go out and vote or grasp the new system? Don't make me defend a point i didn't raise in the first place.

The voting turnout for the 2010 elections was 65.1%, the highest it has been since 1997. Introducing a new system i believe will reduce the voting turnout. I believe it will lower voting turn out for many reasons. One, it has been argued that introducing AV would bring about a minimal change to the outcome of elections. Two, the majority of people who vote are used to the FPTP system. I believe that changing the entire system for minimal benefits is an unnecessary procedure.

Do you think people are apathetic towards voting because they believe that their vote is wasted? As i have mentioned in my previous post, AV will bring about minimal benefits if it ir introduced, so i don't see how more people will turn out to vote. Also, a lot of people who i have spoken to who did not vote, didn't because they didn't care about who is in power. It wasn't due to being worried that their vote will be wasted. I do believe a proportion of the population are ignorant when it comes to politics though. Not because they cannot grasp it intellectually, but more so because they don't care.

The benefits are immense. If AV is brought in no government will be formed without lib dem influence. That means in 2 more general elections we will have a minimum of STV if not full PR. And full PR has is very beneficial for democracy. Don't kid yourself: FPTP is not democracy, it's successive minority rule. Even thatcher didn't get a proper majority, and there hasn't been an actual majority government since world war two; you've had successive minority governments forcing their minority agenda on the majority who didn't actually vote for them, and because of how FPTP operates don't have a way of getting themselves heard.
Compare France's Trente Glorieuses, which was characterized by unstable, constantly shifting STV elected governments, to it's Fifth Republic, which was characterized by an overstrong executive (DeGaulle onwards). Britain has had that overstrong exective for centuries, and it's no surprise it's one of the worse countries in the fully developed West, despite having immense colonial advantages.

FPTP main cited 'benefit' is stability. But it is a false illusion of stability; for the five years of one party rule, no mishap, no catastrophe or disaster can constitutionally force the government to resign; in a STV or PR democracy all that would be required for the government to collapse and for the change in national mood to be represented in the upper echelons of politics would be the withdrawal of a coalition partner.

I don't doubt that STV would help the Lib Dems get more power, and reflect the public's voting patterns more truthfully. However, with the introduction of AV Lib Dems would have only gained 22 more seats, according to this http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/10/alternative-vote-minimal-impact-general-election. Therefore the introduction of AV would have little impact in the results of the general election.

As for your point on stability. I don't really have a problem with the way a government can stay in power for 5 years before the public can vote them out. Public opinion of the government can change easily, and if we're constantly changing government because we don't like a particular policy, or the way they are running the country, nothing would be implemented at all.

Thank goodness for AV; it'll give MPs a proper mandate, and stop a lot of this 'tactical' voting(and, by extension, a lot of the aggressive campaigning techniques, mostly used by Lib Dems). I genuinely think it'll change British politics significantly; not necessarily the composition of the house, but the attitude of those running for office.

No it won't
AV is a less proportional system and thus they don't have a proper mandate. Equally, it may exacerbate tactical voting.

AV is the worst system of them all. We should all vote no, then demand AMS or STV.