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I once convinced an online friend who was a really nice guy but not the sharpest tool in the shed, that I was a multi-millionare. He seriously believed that I had 6 houses in various countries, a chauffeur, went hunting on my private estate each day and had a man-servant (aka butler) called Thomas. I also told him I was currently staying in the penthouse suite of The Dorchester in London. :facepalm:

He was a great guy though, we had a good laugh about it after. :yep:

Anyway, after all this subterfuge I have a few bits of advice to offer you OP,

- If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is, a la "I'm 18 years old and make £100,000 a year"
- If people lie about one particular thing, it's possible they will lie about other things as well
- Don't assume everyone is lying unless you have good reason to, as this will turn you into a cynical b*****d.
- If you're talking to someone about a subject you're familiar with and think they might be lying about something, ask them a question that goes in depth instead of just being vague.

Example: Bad one, I really can't think of something better but this does work.

Spoiler



My point is that if you think someone is lying, you need to probe a bit deeper to find out. And if they are able to discuss things in depth then that leads to two possible scenarios.

Most likely. they're not lying.

Or, they're such a good liar that they came prepared (doubtful).
Reply 21
I am such a good liar I have to actively pretend I am a bad liar so that people think I am not too good so they don't know whether I am telling the truth or lying.
I don't lie compusively, or alot, just when I do I am pretty convincing. I used to lie just for fun, as I found it funny to be able to lie. Probably not the best character trait looking back...
Reply 22
manchild007

Cracker is a good show don't get me wrong, but thats when comparing it to UK standards which frankly, are not very high at all when compared to some US shows...


That's complete crap. Prime Suspect too? Criminal Justice? The fact is, these new good US shows are very recent and in a very different style. Prior to shortly before the millennium the US couldn't do good drama whatsoever. ER and Hill Street Blues are two good exceptions, but like all US dramas they dragged on for far too long. It's not just about budgets, for acting and writing we really had them shafted for a very, very long time.
foxo
That's complete crap. Prime Suspect too? Criminal Justice? The fact is, these new good US shows are very recent and in a very different style. Prior to shortly before the millennium the US couldn't do good drama whatsoever. ER and Hill Street Blues are two good exceptions, but like all US dramas they dragged on for far too long. It's not just about budgets, for acting and writing we really had them shafted for a very, very long time.


Prime Suspect and Criminal Justice some of the best drama? HAHAHAHA!

Have you even seen any of the shows I mentioned aside from The Wire then, or is this 'opinion' just based on ignorance?

As for your whole millennium timeline, I could give a list of examples, but I think it may be better you learn this lesson yourself. The starting point I'll give you is Twin Peaks - arguably one of the greatest suspense and drama shows in the history of television and what everyone dubbed as the original Lost...
Reply 24
manchild007
Prime Suspect and Criminal Justice some of the best drama? HAHAHAHA!

Have you even seen any of the shows I mentioned aside from The Wire then, or is this 'opinion' just based on ignorance?

As for your whole millennium timeline, I could give a list of examples, but I think it may be better you learn this lesson yourself. The starting point i'll give you is Twin Peaks - arguably one of the greatest suspense and drama shows in history and what people dubbed as the original Lost...


Have a look at the list, paying attention to when the titles were made, then **** off. I am clearly not alone in my opinion.

And yes, I have seen some excellent US dramas - the overwhelming majority of which are from the last ten years.
Reply 25
When lying, people tend to look down, or cover their face with their hands.

If they are uncomfortable, they will often avoid eye contact and touch their face or fidget.

They may also jitter their legs, or shrink down posturally.
Reply 26
joey!
When lying, people tend to look down, or cover their face with their hands.

These things actually indicate shame. What it doesn't tell you is the source of this feeling, so of course, the liar can be ashamed of his lie, but a truthful person can be ashamed of something he did on a particular day, falling ill, and plethora of other reasons. Hence it is a huge misintepration of body language.
joey!

If they are uncomfortable, they will often avoid eye contact and touch their face or fidget.
Yes, you are correct, Paul Ekman describes those as 'manipulators', but again those things indicate that a person feels uncomfortable for the reason unknown. On the other hand maintaining eye contact for an extended period of time is unnatural, and may in fact be a clue to the person's untruthfulness.
joey!

They may also jitter their legs, or shrink down posturally.

First - the person is nervous, impatient, etc.
Second - lowered self-esteem, sadness, shame, etc.


When lucking for clues to describing deception in body language one must be extremely careful, to avoid, sometimes fatal mistakes.

For example a person suspected of murder during interrogation may be afraid of getting caught. The same person however can be afraid of being falsely accused.

Therefore if you want to interpret body language, I'd exercise utmost caution.

Cheers :smile:
Reply 27
Papkin
These things actually indicate shame. What it doesn't tell you is the source of this feeling, so of course, the liar can be ashamed of his lie, but a truthful person can be ashamed of something he did on a particular day, falling ill, and plethora of other reasons. Hence it is a huge misintepration of body language.
Yes, you are correct, Paul Ekman describes those as 'manipulators', but again those things indicate that a person feels uncomfortable for the reason unknown. On the other hand maintaining eye contact for an extended period of time is unnatural, and may in fact be a clue to the person's untruthfulness.

First - the person is nervous, impatient, etc.
Second - lowered self-esteem, sadness, shame, etc.


When lucking for clues to describing deception in body language one must be extremely careful, to avoid, sometimes fatal mistakes.

For example a person suspected of murder during interrogation may be afraid of getting caught. The same person however can be afraid of being falsely accused.

Therefore if you want to interpret body language, I'd exercise utmost caution.

Cheers :smile:


The source for that was David Simon's "Homicide" book, just to let you know.
Reply 28
joey!
The source for that was David Simon's "Homicide" book, just to let you know.

I'm not saying you made it up. :smile:
Although I suppose a work of psychologist who devoted his lifework to study of deceit, emotions and facial expressions is probably more credible.
(My source is Paul Ekman's book Telling Lies: Clues to Deceit)
Reply 29
Papkin
I'm not saying you made it up. :smile:
Although I suppose a work of psychologist who devoted his lifework to study of deceit, emotions and facial expressions is probably more credible.
(My source is Paul Ekman's book Telling Lies: Clues to Deceit)


Well in "homicide" there's a whole chapter on this one case, and the primary investigator had a suspect but couldn't get a confession, so he hired a 3rd party body language specialist to assist in his interview.

But yeah, yours is probably more correct.
I admit, I have lied upfront and straight without a person really questioning it. People tended to believe me.
Only my mum knows when I am lying...
Reply 31
Ape Gone Insane
Slightly incorrect. The wording in your post makes it seem like the knowledge makes you spot lies all the time. Ekman himself said that even the best human lie detector will be right/catch a lie 60% of the time.

It was a warning. Had to be blown out of proportion :smile:
And I'm not saying you get lies 100% of time. But it tends to be upsetting at times.
And no, I'm not an expert at discovering deceit, but still, I can catch a lot of lies and it's not always a good thing.

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