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i think its perfectly fine. GCSE you choose the subjects that bore you least =P and by A level all you're really picking is if you're going to do a science related degree or an arts related degree.
Reply 21
I think I disagree on this one. It's easy to look back in hindsight but people are always changing. If we didn't specialise education at a young age then subjects couldn't be studied in enough depth so people wouldn't have much of an idea of where they wanted to be in the future.
Reply 22
In Germany pupils are seperated into different schools, dependent on their performace, when they are between 9-11 ages old. Hence I don't think that taking a decision with 13 years is too early, at least as long it is possible to change ones choice later.
Reply 23
TomInce6666
Honestly, In my opinion, I think we specialise wayyy too late. Pick off academic kids when they're young, push them more where less academically gifted kids cant flourish. Hate to say it but they "hold back" a gifted minority which this country needs to succeed in international commerce. We need skilled/talented graduates, not more graduates. Its cruel to keep someone on through A levels when all they're gonna get are a string of E's and U's. Vocational training or straight to the job market are much better options for these people, save them wasting years of their lives.


Being gifted and knowing what you want to do are not the same things... :s-smilie:
Reply 24
Interesting question. No, I don't think we specialise too early - at least, not when it comes to doing a small number of subjects at AS/A level.

I think that narrowing down means you can create more intellectual challenge in the subjects you study, closer to what you'd find at undergraduate level, which helps you develop better critical thinking & study skills

I think that by the time you've reached a certain level of educational maturity, it's reasonable for schools to leave it up to you to ensure your breadth of education - no-one is going to prevent you reading around subjects you aren't actually studying - in fact I think it's essential to do so.
Yes and no.

I had good luck GCSE-wise (got 2 A*, 9 A and a B) even though I was forced into Geography - long story there - still got an A in it. I do wish though that our school had let us take some GCSE's early (such as English, Maths, Science so then we could get those out of the way and concentrate on our "options" subjects), as then I might have been able to do some AS' in Year 11.

At A Level though, I wish that I had listened to my family. I was adamant that I wanted to do Drama (got a B at GCSE, but I was good at the subject, especially the written part, and I enjoyed it) and Maths with Mechs, but they wanted me to do French and German (my 2 A* subjects). If I had done as they said, I could very well have been going to an AAB-ABB uni, but instead I am going to a uni that has a points-based offer. However, in a way I'm glad I cocked up in some of my subjects last year, as then I had to look at unis with lower offers, and I'm sure I probably wouldn't have loved any other uni as much as I love Lincoln, especially as there doesn't seem to be that many unis that do Law & Politics.

It depends on the person though, really.
Completely agree. I know someone who chose bio, chem, eng lit and history for A Levels with medicine in mind. Halfway through year 12 he switched to law. Then at the beginning of year 13 he decided he wanted to do economics. So having to hastily pick up econ AS, and with only maths GCSE, he was stuck with where to apply. RHUL gave him an offer of AAA which he firmed and missed. We 'specialise' too young.
TheSownRose
Being gifted and knowing what you want to do are not the same things... :s-smilie:


True, bit of an oversight in my post. But speaking from personal experience, i'd much have preferred to have dropped everything apart from what i took for A levels in y9,10 instead of having to do 4 subjects i literally hated for 2 years. The system doesnt allow for what i wanted to do, and i knew what i wanted to do. So its quite sad that people who have firmly got a purpose in life are discriminated against. If there was somehow a choice to do more specialisation earlier on, i'd much prefer that kind of system.
Reply 28
No. I WISH I could have dropped pointless crap like art and music when I was 13.
Panda Vinnie
Yeah...that's why I said "It's different for everybody..."

Personally I'd rather be a master of one than a jack of all trades. I'm doing a physics degree and will follow it into a career. Would I rather have concentrated on just physics and relevant subjects to a point where I know it at a greater depth at the expense of missing out on those wider subjects? Absolutely yes.

It's all about priority, and different people have different priorities. I for one judge myself to be a well-rounded member of society with regards to the contribution I make to society...not by the variety of my knowledge.

I would hardly say that the US degrees don't lead to depth in whatever field you go into, though. While I can't comment on which has more depth, the workforce seems to treat the two degrees (US and UK B.S.'s) as more or less interchangeable.
Reply 30
Well, I can comment from the perspective of an international student.
I come from Czech republic and all the way from the early grades throughout whole school until year 13 we take 13-17 COMPULSORY subjects (depending on school).
So when you know that you are rubbish in Sciences and you know you will not be a medical student, you don't have an option. You still have to study biology, chemistry, physics and all this - even though you are not even slightly interested. That makes your grades lower. That decreases your motivation to work hard even for subjects that you are interested in (for example, I love history - but could I really enjoy it when I only had 2 lessons a week of it? no, not really - I didn't learn anything).
When I finished year 10 in Czech, I was so pleased that I could make the decision to go and study AS levels in the UK, when I could finally specialise and do things that I enjoy doing. I took subjects I enjoy, not subjects I am forced to do by the government to be a "broadly educated human being" or whatever their arguments are.
Now you may think that I am the kind of person you were talking about as the one who knows what they want to do. Trust me - I know a lot of people studying in Czech in the system where you study everything - they all know which subjects they enjoy and which they do not, simply because they are forced to study them anyway.
Now I think that GCSEs allow you quite a broad range of subjects to keep all your interests while also your options open (although I haven't studied it, so I don't know exactly). But I think that people at the age of 16 are mature enough to choose whether they want a scientific path or a humanistic one.
Therefore I don't think that the UK system specialises too early - and I would give anything to have such a fair and student friendly system in my country, too.

(sorry for the horrible length, I know :biggrin:)
Reply 31
Yes completely agree. Although I have been lucky and taken the subjects that I found I enjoyed (except Maths but that was compulsory). So glad I didn't take anything like Drama or ICT or even Music or PE both of which I was considering. Would have hated them. A subject I would quite like to have taken would be History though but I didn't have enough spaces (with compulsory subjects, I only got 2 choices). I am worried that what I want to take for A Level is completely wrong for me and that I'm a scientist or doctor at heart :scared: That would be the worst because I would have my parents saying I-told-you-so to me (both doctors) and it would be a waste of so much time. What if I'm **** at my arts subjects? What if I don't become a journalist? Or worse, become a bad one? It's so scary!
Reply 32
it's a problem when you're not allowed to specialise too - for instance, my school it was compulsory to do that stupid ICT dida award, and pe b-tec. NO languages were taught for gcse, and considering once upon a time i wanted to be a translator...
I ended up doing music and engineering of all things, when what i really wanted to do was french and german/geography. :|
Reply 33
i knew what i wanted to do and wasn't able to study it in my uni only because they didn't get that detailed. so now that i've completed my degree i'm going back to school to do something completely different. my high school never gave me an opportunity to prepare for uni let alone specialize. :frown: yea, my high school sucked.

but i think it's nice that you guys have the opportunity; it opens your mind to other career paths, so to speak.
Reply 34
I think if anything there is too little specialisation. At GCSE, you've still got plenty of options beyond the mandatory core options. If you don't know what you're headed for, you can pick 4+ options outside the core content to try them out, and even if none of them work out as long as you've been competent in the relevant core subjects you can carry onto whatever path you want.

Interestingly, in this thread most the girls want less specialisation and the boys more :holmes:
Reply 35
I have always thought its weird that in some countries you have to choose your path so early! Maybe its just because I've been educated in a country where it's all about giving students an all around education. I studied almost 20 subjects at higher secondary-school most of them compulsory (maths, mother-tongue and literature, English, Swedish, biology, history, politics, geography, music, art, PE, psychology, physics, chemistry + non-compulsory German, French, Arabic and modern dance). Of course you only study a little bit of the subjects you're not very interested in (except for maths, languages and history which everyone have to study quite a lot). For example I have no interest whatsoever on chemistry but I still find it useful to know at least something about organic and inorganic chemistry and I really feel like I've been given a strong grounding not just for further studies but for life :yep:

First everyone studies a lot of compulsory modules in various subjects and then you can choose more modules in the subjects you're interested in and take the final-exams in 4-10 subjects. This makes it really flexible because it's possible to change your plans at any time of your studies, even in the final year.
No wonder we had so many foreign people visiting our school to learn about the education system :s-smilie:

edit: Oh and my aim was not to bash the British education system at all.. Different systems, different aims. Ours focuses mainly on general knowledge and preparing students for life, yours at preparing students for higher education.
Hmm. I don't know. I can't think of a choice at GCSE level that would prevent someone from changing their mind for A-level, as schools force you to take the core subjects. Then for A-levels, I don't think 16 is too young to specialise at all, and the only thing that would really limit someone's options is if they'd chosen arts subjects, then decided they wanted to study a science course. Even then there are foundation years etc available. The cases where people go in a completely wrong, irreversible academic direction are the extreme minority; there's no need to punish the majority. As someone who knew what they wanted to do from about 12, not being able to specialise would have been a nightmare for me.
TheSownRose
For me, it's been a recurring issue throughout my education that the choices I've made that narrowed my curriculum are not the same ones I would have made by the time I've finished that part of my education.

Some people know exactly what they want at a young age, or at least know where they are heading. Others don't, or change a lot, or think they do but re-decide at a later stage. For the former, GCSE and A-level options are great - means they're only spending their time on relevant, worthwhile subjects. For the latter, our system of specialisation from an early age can be disasterous, as by the time they do know where they want to be, their previous decisions could have already ruled it out.

I'll use myself as an example: because of where my birthday falls, I made by GCSE choices when I was thirteen. I lost interest in three of them by the time I was in early year eleven. The subjects I would have chosen as a sixteen year old just finishing would have been completely different to my thirteen year old self. Some TSR-ers will know my A-level and uni situation; if not, a brief summary is this: I based my A-level choices on subjects I enjoyed, and half-heartedly applied for uni to a course I sort of had an interest in. By the time I knew where I wanted to be heading, I'd practically finished A-levels ... in the wrong subjects (it was about April of year thirteen.) It was only through some good conversation skills and quick thinking that I got a place on an appropriate course in Clearing, otherwise the other options would have been re-do A-levels or wait a few years to take an Access course. Again, the choices I made at fifteen are not the ones I would have made at eighteen.

I'm not the only person I know like this. To name just one other, I had a friend who thought she wanted to be architect, so she took courses accordingly, slowly narrowing it down. In the end, she realised she didn't want to be an architect when she was in her first year uni ... but by then, she'd rather boxed herself into it.

It's not an issue I often consider, because the past is the past, I didn't self-eliminate myself from the career I want ... but today, two thinks happened. Firstly, I read about a kid in year ten who already knows he wants to be a dentist and should he start writing his PS, and secondly, my friend in America said she's decided she wants to became an outdoor activities leader. She's already in uni (well, college over there,) but because the education system is broader, she hasn't ruled herself out of it yet. And I wonder, do we have the right idea about choosing our future? How many people are making the wrong choices this year, and next year, and the next...? Can anything be done about it?

tl;dr version: Does our education system force people to make potentially life-changing choices when they're still too young to know what they want?


Yes. If I had it my way:

Everyone do IGCSEs/O-Levels in: English Language, English Literature, Mathematics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, History, Geography, [MFL], Ancient Greek, Latin

If you want: Mathematics II, [second MFL]

If you're not academic - IGCSE English Language, Mathematics, Science, Science II + whatever you want to do (e.g. GCSE in Music or a course in Theatre).

The "academic" route - then specialises in Pre-Us. The "non-academic" goes to further education/vocational colleges or specialised drama/art school or whatever.
Panda Vinnie
It's different for everybody.

Personally for me I felt we're specialising too late, I'd have loved to just concentrated on maths and sciences for GCSE and learn them at an even greater depth instead of having to put up with crap like R.E, French, Technology, Geography, ICT etc. (no offence intended, but I despise these subjects).


There's a big difference between learning crap (currently) and having a broad and balanced curriculum.

PSHE - waste of taxpayers' money tbh.
Reply 39
im so academic
Yes. If I had it my way:

Everyone do IGCSEs/O-Levels in: English Language, English Literature, Mathematics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, History, Geography, [MFL], Ancient Greek, Latin

There's a big difference between learning crap (currently) and having a broad and balanced curriculum.


You really couldn't make it up....

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