The Student Room Group

Why are low tuition fees possible in Europe but not in the UK?

Scroll to see replies

Reply 20
Actually, Spain's taxes aren't any higher than the UK and university there is still very cheap.
Law123mus
Higher taxes.

Germany?
Complex Simplicity
Germany?


I meant to say higher taxes '?'
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 23
Drewski
However they also have either no or next to no income tax. It balances out.


You are incorrect, the income tax in Sweden is one of the highest in the world.

I'd like to point out that the UK VAT is also increased to 20% from 2011 onwards and in Sweden (also in Finland) you get student benefits of around 600€ a month in addition to your free education, healthcare, et cetera et cetera
Reply 24
Lord Browne
Absolutely right - we do have the best universities in Europe
, and lots of international students choose to come here to study.

Almost all countries have tuition fees now, but it important that in England no student has to pay these up front.


Ever increasing fees will make universities on the continent look ever more enticing. Not to mention that many American universities have mentioned an interest in attracting the best English students, and we all know the massive value of the scholarships that they offer. With uncompetitive fees, the best and the brightest can be expected to look elsewhere for their education, and without good students we can expect to have the 'best universities in Europe' no longer.

The high fees are simply an excuse to stop giving the universities as much funding, because they will be able to raise money themselves through extortionate fees. In short, universities are being privatised.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 25
Politician in dodging the question shocker! We are all grateful that he took his time but that answer takes the piss :facepalm2:
Reply 26
Ooh, I like how Russia charges fees to 15% of people, including second undergraduates and those who slightly miss their entrance requirement. I think that's quite a good idea.
Reply 27
I don't understand how Finland only has 17% income tax yet still manages to have free universities.
Drewski
However they also have either no or next to no income tax. It balances out.

Sweden has a payroll tax of up to circa 30% and additional income taxes up to circa 60%....

ak56

I don't understand how Finland only has 17% income tax yet still manages to have free universities

Finland has a large additional payroll tax and local taxes are more significant than they are in the UK

(People tend to forget local taxes: remember that Council Tax only funds a puny 16% of what local government spends. In other countries it just isn't like that)
(edited 13 years ago)
RadialMigration
What about graduate medics? You'll find that we do, actually.
Aye, but it's your choice to spend a decade becoming a doctor when you already have a degree. The state can't fund degree after degree.

Anyway, the real reason is that we have a European welfare system on American taxes -- except soon we'll have a bloody American system.
jismith1989
Aye, but it's your choice to spend a decade becoming a doctor when you already have a degree. The state can't fund degree after degree.

Anyway, the real reason is that we have a European welfare system on American taxes -- except soon we'll have a bloody American system.


Look. I'm happy to plunge into debt to retrain as a doctor. It's a good steady career and the debt would ultimately be low-risk and eventually paid off.

The issue I'm having here, is the fact that grad medics are required to pay their fees UP-FRONT. We don't get any kind of credit and students are having to resort to taking out very expensive high-street loans to do so.

These proposed changes clearly have not considered this and have subsequently failed to put any provisions in place. Take the 5 year course for example, coughing up 4x £3k upfront each year is feasible. Even WITH a £20k bank loan, paying £12k upfront is not. Simple as.

Again, to receive a tuition loan of some sort would be wise. This is a group of students who will have the highest graduate salary and employment rate. These students CAN affort the debt. However, this credit is not available and they are expected to pay up-front. With a 4x increase in fee price, this is no longer possible for the majority.
RadialMigration
Look. I'm happy to plunge into debt to retrain as a doctor. It's a good steady career and the debt would ultimately be low-risk and eventually paid off.

The issue I'm having here, is the fact that grad medics are required to pay their fees UP-FRONT. We don't get any kind of credit and students are having to resort to taking out very expensive high-street loans to do so.

These proposed changes clearly have not considered this and have subsequently failed to put any provisions in place. Take the 5 year course for example, coughing up 4x £3k upfront each year is feasible. Even WITH a £20k bank loan, paying £12k upfront is not. Simple as.

Again, to receive a tuition loan of some sort would be wise. This is a group of students who will have the highest graduate salary and employment rate. These students CAN affort the debt. However, this credit is not available and they are expected to pay up-front. With a 4x increase in fee price, this is no longer possible for the majority.
Personally, harsh as it may be, I don't see ELQ-funding as a high priority; the govt. should focus on those without a degree, not those who believe that their degree was in the wrong area. After all, one could train as a doctor and then decide that it's not for them and get a lower paid job, thereby costing the state.
(edited 13 years ago)
jismith1989
Personally, harsh as it may be, I don't see ELQ-funding as a high priority; the govt. should focus on those without a degree, not those who believe that their degree was in the wrong area. After all, one could train as a doctor and then decide that it's not for them and get a lower paid job, thereby costing the state.


It's not an ELQ. An MB ChB is actually a higher level than a BSc. Subsequently, it is possible to try to wrangle small loans from the SLC (although most of the time not successfully), but nowhere near enough to pay for the tuition that will be requested from these changes.

You say that some may not actually enter medicine as a career? Graduate medics enter the degree more mature, having longer to gain knowledge and experience of the career before venturing into it. These students are less likely to be pushed into it for the wrong reasons, e.g. family pressures, sixthform pressures. I would suspect that they are much less likely to not enter into the vocation.

The government should be falling over themselves to fund graduate medicine. It produces doctors with more education, ranging from wider backgrounds bringing in new skills that would not otherwise be there. Grad Med loans would be the lowest risk of all student loaning. These students are entering into a vocation with a near 100% employment rate and with a well defined increasing salary. The government is stupid not to take advantage of the fact that these students are ones who will be able to deal with the debt.

Funding medicine should be a priority, ELQ or not.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 33
MrsRoxyK
Pretty much everywhere in Europe, going to uni is free or nearly free.
Why is that? What makes British universities so much more expensive?

I won't deny that the UK might have the best unis in Europe due to these high tuition fees, but there are some pretty good unis on the continent as well, which don't need a £6,000 tuition fee (and no £3,290 tuition fee either).

£3,290 is already quite high compared to the rest of Europe. Why raise it? The UK isn't the only country with financial problems, but seems to be the only country that has to take dramatic measures.

Blame new labour.
Reply 34
PerigeeApogee
Yes, but interview any swede and ask them what they think of their income tax, and the vast, vast majority of them are happy about it.

Why?

Because they see that money going back into their communities. Sweden has an excellent education system, an excellent infrastructure, excellent public services, excellent healthcare, etc, etc, etc, and the reason they have all that is because the government is sensible about what it does with tax revenue, and everybody who lives in Sweden sees the evidence of sensible public spending every day of their lives.

In this country we see a trivial amount of public benefit for a non-trivial amount of public spending.

I wouldn't mind paying Swedish tax rates in exchange for a government that works as sensibly as the Swedish government.


Agreed. I lived there for a year and I think the "system" is great. Great public transport, great welfare provision (particularly maternity/paternity leave provision), and a much smaller gap between the rich and poor. I had friends who worked menial jobs in a fish factory and they got a really decent wage. Students over there get funding to study for up to six years. And everyone I talked to about it was fine about the taxes they had to pay - since they were getting so much out of it.

The only tiny issue I had was that doctors' appointments weren't free like they are over here, and I believe they should be.
I love how members of the board are having a much better crack at the question than the "expert" who holds the power. Deary me. Politicians always seem to underestimate the internet savvy youth, every day we engage in vicious arguments across the web - we know when someone isn't answering the question.
Reply 36
Another thing is, why are low tuition fees possible in the rest of the UK?
In France University are near to be free but some Grande Ecole are near the same price as UK uni (even more expensive I would say).

You have the best university system in Europe and the second best in the world, why changing what works ?
Reply 38
We have much better unis
Reply 39
pothead1
Blame new labour.


Yes, because that explains why the conservatives are increasing the fees EVEN MORE?!?!

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending