Why I support a rise in Tuition Fees and will not be 'protesting'

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yoyo462001

The fees for Economics degree are going to go through the roof. :sigh:

I reckon you can look at the MSc fees to get an idea of how the market for Economics BSc degrees will shape up. I expect that at LSE, UCL, Warwick and Oxbridge the undergrad fees for Economics will be some of the highest for any degree. They will take advantage of the fact that their graduates are in a "target school" for the City and a lot of people will be aiming for careers in IB and would expect that they could easily pay their graduate debt off. Unlucky for the (quite significant numbers) of top tier Econ graduates who get rejected by IB.

The knock on effect of that is that at those super high fee rates a lot of the top A level students will be put off applying for them, so they will all start aiming for Bristol, Edinburgh, Nottingham and so on, as their top choices, which will make those for competitiveness like LSE and UCL are now, and then the rest of the redbricks will become more competitive than they currently are as well, probably asking for 10A*s at GCSE or whatever.

It's going to be a difficult market for the econ students of the future and the long run effect will be that there will be problems at the universities themselves in recruiting for academics. If economics graduates are leaving uni with £40k plus of debts then how many of them will be motivated to pay another £15-20k to cover fees and living costs for an MSc, and then stay on to do a PhD where they will (if they are lucky) be living on about £12-14k for three years while their graduate debt is accruing interest above the rate of inflation, all so they can then start looking for postdoc jobs on about £20-24k, to build experience to become an academic on £28-38k. Maybe a decade down the line they can become a senior academic on a salary of £48k or so. They are going to find their debts from education a massive burden which they struggle to pay off and if they want to get on the housing ladder and build a pension etc they will never really earn enough to do it, if they want the lifestyle of being an academic they will always be really living a very restricted life in terms of disposable income.

It would be far easier for them to become an accountant, get earning straight away, and look at being on £70k or so after ten years as a professional, so they can be free of the debt burden.

At the moment according to the RAE, Economics is the subject in the UK in which the UK university sector produces the best research, but give it 15 years or so when a lot of current academics will have retired and you wonder how we will retain standards, unless the universities are able to completely recruit in staff from abroad, there will just not be the econ grads of the future coming through the system to be academics. We might find our competitive advantage tumbles in the international market.

Reply 41

S1800

If your gona complain about the fees and protest,Ill have a large big mac and fries please

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 42

ArchiBoi

S1800

If your gona complain about the fees and protest,Ill have a large big mac and fries please

How is this funny?

Reply 43

Fallen

Original post by joanna-eve

The only thing that raising fees will do is mean that only rich people can go to uni, and they're not necessarily the bright ones. It'll be people whose parents are paying them through to get them to do something constructive rather than people from middle/working class backgrounds who genuinely want to be there and genuinely want to learn.
However, I do agree with you about cutting the number of mickey mouse degrees. Things like golf course management, acupuncture, event management etc do not need to be studied at university. The funding instead to go to real subjects like medicine and language (and I'm not just saying that because I'm a linguist :L)

You can still get a loan...
I am going to get no financial support though university, and will live off government loans - even though I do not qualify for any grants because my dad is very rich (but we don't talk).
If anything I am the hardest hit, as I have no money but do not qualify for any handouts, yet the loans I will recieve will be enough for me to eat, sleep, and be taught, and at the end I will pay back the money. Why shouldn't I?

Reply 44

whythehellnot

Original post by lessthan0

4. The problem is not too many graduates, the problem is graduation snobbery; the idea that once you've got a degree you are above certain jobs.

Not so sure that this is the case, if someone really needs money then they'll go anywhere to get it. The 'problem' is that people with degree's are much more employable than those without, so as soon as a better job (for what ever reason, be it pay, location, type of job) comes along, they'll be off like a shot. Seeing as that is much less likely to happen with those without certain levels of qualifications, it's better to employ these people from a managers perspective because it means less interviews, less employee turnover (which is bad because you're constantly stuck with newbie employees as opposed to 1 fairly experienced one).

Reply 45

MagneticMeteor

Original post by silverbolt

i like this point - it means that those who dont fit into your little world will get jobs and your "valued" defgee wont be worth the paper its printed on as your experiance will be doodly squat

That's what most general TSR discussions about higher education are about, something like 'we don't want you to have what we will' :colone:

Reply 46

alharrison4

Oh shut it, this thread's been done about 25089827536 times.

Reply 47

Sorani

I wish university was still a place for people who enjoy studying or for love of academics instead of just a factory for job skills. Do people just not enjoy learning things for the sake of learning? That makes me sad.

Reply 48

grth

Original post by ArchiBoi

1. We need to cut the deficit universities are massively under funded and need the extra cash.

2. Every man and dog goes to university to study mickey mouse subjects at mickey mouse universities. eg. Sociology at Blackpool University.

3. Do we need so many grads from golf management? a BA from the university of lord-knows-nowhere.

4. We have too many graduates as it is this will cut the number.

5. Most of the people protesting probably voted tory anyway.

6. This will increase the 'value' of my degree as I will have hopefully have left the system by the time the new rates come in.

7. Lots of my friends in Scotland went to uni, messed around, smoked pot, resat the year four times in different soft subjects and left without paying a penny.

Edited.

Ok. Not sure if I agree with this thread at all, but I can understand your reasoning.

Point 3 makes sense. I want my degree to be worthwhile, after all, i'm paying the current £3k p/a to get it.

I just think it's very naive and possibly/probably biased, as it won't affect you anyways. My sister badly wants to study nursing at university, and it's going to cost her a ton just to get that degree, with prospects of at least £20k debt. It's easy to say it's all for a greater good, but what about for the individual?

Reply 49

channy

Original post by karateworm

Christ, someone recognised it! Dennis Wilson is, for lack of a better word, ******* AWESOME. I bought a limited edition (only 100 ever made) canvass artwork of him, framed it and stuck it in my room - lovely :biggrin:

Are you aware of the Dennis Wilson songs in the Beach Boy catalogue? He did a sizeable amount of songs there, "Forever" and "Cuddle Up" being my favourite.

Beach Boys...banging. Although, Brian Wilson is my favourite. Pet Sounds is godly.

Reply 50

kat2pult

My degree might be considered a Mickey Mouse degree, but I enjoy it and I'm good at it and it'll link into a career field I never thought would be open to me.

I partially agree with the rise in fees, but I think it's because I went to private school and I always considered £3k rather cheap for a year in education. I think a jump to about £5-6k would have been a better transition, though.

I do think it would be good for less people to go to university as it's not for everyone, and lots of people are encouraged to go in disregard of this. I think vocational courses should definitely be promoted, even at local colleges or whatever.

I have to say that I was ashamed to be a student last week. I didn't condone the building being thrashed, fires being started or fire extinguishers being pelted off the roof. I suspect many students simply went to cause trouble and a riot, and their actions only backfired.