Thickies at elite unis because of connections

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google is your friend. There are a whole bunch of interesting statistics in this story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/sep/20/accesstouniversity.topstories3

Reply 61

The_Lonely_Goatherd

py0alb

Well b) clearly isn't the case as the figures show that a private school pupil is over twice as likely to be accepted at Oxbridge as a state school pupil with identical grades.

I don't know what figures you're looking at but they're complete ********. That's not the case at all. Someone's been telling you porkies :yes:

Reply 62

py0alb

The_Lonely_Goatherd

I don't know what figures you're looking at but they're complete ********. That's not the case at all. Someone's been telling you porkies :yes:

What do you make of this quote, from Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the Sutton Trust, which helps to provide educational opportunities for pupils from non-privileged backgrounds:

"A student in a state school is as likely to go on to a leading university as a student from the independent sector who gets two grades lower at A-level"

and here is a direct quote from the Sutton Trust report:

"The proportion of university entrants going to Oxbridge from the top 30 fee-paying schools was nearly twice as high as that for the best 30 state grammars, despite similar average A-level scores.

At the 30 best-performing comprehensives, only half the expected number went to the 13 top universities, given their average A-level scores, while a third more pupils than might be expected from the top private schools won a place."

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 63

The_Lonely_Goatherd

py0alb

That's the fault of state schools, not Oxford. I say this as someone who came from a comp.

and here is a direct quote from the Sutton Trust report:

"The proportion of university entrants going to Oxbridge from the top 30 fee-paying schools was nearly twice as high as that for the best 30 state grammars, despite similar average A-level scores.

At the 30 best-performing comprehensives, only half the expected number went to the 13 top universities, given their average A-level scores, while a third more pupils than might be expected from the top private schools won a place."

Suitability for an Oxford degree isn't determined by getting AAA alone, so saying "despite similar A Level scores" and expecting that to be relevant to Oxford or Cambridge admissions is just people being silly. Not brain surgery on anyone's part to work that out, really :nah:

Reply 64

py0alb

The_Lonely_Goatherd

That's the fault of state schools, not Oxford. I say this as someone who came from a comp.

Suitability for an Oxford degree isn't determined by getting AAA alone, so saying "despite similar A Level scores" and expecting that to be relevant to Oxford or Cambridge admissions is just people being silly. Not brain surgery on anyone's part to work that out, really :nah:

Nonsense. Its not the job of our secondary education sector to train pupils to pass interviews. What we're saying here is that a kid who gets AAA at a comprehensive school has the same chance of getting into Oxbridge as a private school pupil with ABB. It should be the other way round for goodness sake. If that's not evidence of a flawed and institutionally biased selection criteria at Oxbridge then I don't know what is.

It's a complete farce, because the best, most deserving candidates with the most potential to succeed are being passed over simply because daddy doesn't have enough money. What kind of society do we want to live in where we think this is "ok"?

Reply 65

nmbr1

''Dont use the work thickies, it is so demining''

we all make mistakes but are you taking the p*ss?

Reply 66

The_Lonely_Goatherd

py0alb

Um, do you actually know anything about Oxbridge admissions? You're just talking complete bull. An extreme minority - regardless of schooling - will be admitted with anything less than AAA at A Level. An ABB private school pupil will be laughed out of the building almost everytime, as would a grammar or comp student.

No, it's not the jobs of schools to train people for interviews. It's the jobs of schools to teach their pupils well and help them reach their potential. Oxbridge tutors have plenty of experience figuring out who's had training and who hasn't. The system is designed to make sure that those who haven't had training or who are shy aren't at a disadvantage purely because of that :yes:

It's a complete farce, because the best, most deserving candidates with the most potential to succeed are being passed over simply because daddy doesn't have enough money. What kind of society do we want to live in where we think this is "ok"?

Go actually learn something about the admissions systems for Oxford before sprouting rubbish, please. It's people like you who stop hundreds of deserving state school students from applying :sadnod:

Reply 67

py0alb

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Go actually learn something about the admissions systems for Oxford before sprouting rubbish, please. It's people like you who stop hundreds of deserving state school students from applying :sadnod:

It's funny how you dismiss my argument as if I'm 16 years old and don't know what I'm talking about, yet the statistics from the report clearly back me up and not you. Perhaps its you who needs to go "learn something" about the efficacy of the Oxbridge admissions system?

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 68

The_Lonely_Goatherd

py0alb

Given I've actually been through the system, seen the other side and done plenty of access stuff, I think I'm OK :smile:

If you honestly believe that private school students are being asked for ABB by Oxford or Cambridge, there's something quite wrong there :yes:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 69

py0alb

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Given I've actually been through the system, seen the other side and done plenty of access stuff, I think I'm OK :smile:

If you honestly believe that private school students are being asked for ABB by Oxford or Cambridge, there's something quite wrong there :yes:

That was an example of what the report was saying (seeing as you appeared to have misunderstood the point), not a statement of fact :facepalm2:

Which Oxford university are you at again? :rolleyes:

Reply 70

Einheri

milr1jnv

Dont use the work thickies, it is so demining

Terribly sorry, I hope we haven't offended you and your people.

Reply 71

prospectivEEconomist

Wow losers prefer to complain that they can't get to Oxbridge because of the school they go to, instead of studying and standing a ******* better chance of getting in.

Reply 72

nulli tertius

py0alb

the figures show that a private school pupil is over twice as likely to be accepted at Oxbridge as a state school pupil with identical grades.

per Sir Peter Lampl and quoted by you as a source

"The proportion of university entrants going to Oxbridge from the top 30 fee-paying schools was nearly twice as high as that for the best 30 state grammars, despite similar average A-level scores"

Spot the difference

Don't over egg the point you are making.

Reply 73

nulli tertius

py0alb

"A student in a state school is as likely to go on to a leading university as a student from the independent sector who gets two grades lower at A-level"

First of all there is no suggestion this is primarily about Oxbridge.

The reason for this is likely to be less able private school pupils choosing less competitive (and less obviously career orientated) courses at elite redbricks whilst able state school pupils prefer to take more obviously career related courses at less highly regarded universities.

Reply 74

nulli tertius

The_Lonely_Goatherd

because state schoolers are often less inclined to apply because they think they won't fit in because of scare-mongering by the media :yes:

I've always rather had the feeling that two different reasons for not going to Oxbridge are allowed to elide into one another.

There is a difference between not applying because one fears one won't fit in and not applying to Oxbridge because one doesn't want the Oxbridge experience. Some people prefer Grange Hill to Hogwarts.

Reply 75

bmt

babygirl110

I don't know if your are referring to Kings College in Oxford or KCL but I know someone from my neighbourhood who missed his KCL grades by a lot and still got in anyway.

KCL, I didn't say he got in purely because of the grant but that is what he said to the girl I know. I don't know whether it's true or not, but I'm sure on occasion it does happen so I don't see any reason why not.

Reply 76

py0alb

nulli tertius

per Sir Peter Lampl and quoted by you as a source

Spot the difference

Don't over egg the point you are making.

So shoot me for not googling the sources until people started pestering me. It doesn't really change the fact though does it?

Reply 77

lightningfist

"Demining"? Learn English, FFS.

Personally I think if people got into University because of connections, then good for the rest of us. After all we need somebody to take the 2.2s and below. I'm sure most of you would agree.

It's true that people get into school and work due to connections, but even though there isn't much the rest of us can do about it, we can work that much harder, and get what we deserve.

Reply 78

Teveth

Prince William at St Andrews.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 79

hobnob

py0alb

So shoot me for not googling the sources until people started pestering me. It doesn't really change the fact though does it?

It does, because several of the points which you previously presented as 'facts' are actually claims which are so hugely exaggerated (for example 'a kid who gets AAA at a comprehensive school has the same chance of getting into Oxbridge as a private school pupil with ABB', which is blatant nonsense) that they no longer resemble facts. That isn't to say you don't have a point about unequal chances, but a) that doesn't automatically mean it's the universities' fault and b) you're not exactly helping your argument by distorting the facts beyond recognition just to make them appear even more shocking. :erm: