[RyRy93]

Apologies if I sound noob-ish, but is there much/any difference in betting on horses than football? I've usually matched on football mostly, but the horses are the only profitable sources at some bookies. Thanks.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by RyRy93)
Apologies if I sound noob-ish, but is there much/any difference in betting on horses than football? I've usually matched on football mostly, but the horses are the only profitable sources at some bookies. Thanks.

It is usually the same as MBing on football. But there may be a problem that if there one or more horses are withdrawn, the odds of your horses would be reduced known 'rule 4' deduction and sometimes the bookie's deduction will be higher than that of the exchanges. So you may have to adjust down your lay bet otherwise there a risk you may lose more from the exchange than you win from the bookie due to this. So I'd advise you to read more about rule 4 and its adjustments from mse.

[simplemind]

(Original post by bkeevin)
Yes they are trying to crack down on MB. But they have no way of knowing you are doing it and they will not have the evidence needed even if they suspect you.

I just wanted to chip in and say that they don't need evidence to take away your winnings, and could do so if they wished. If they're suspicious they could give you back your deposit and take away your bonus/winnings, which in their eyes is free money but if you've sunk the money into Betfair, you'll be making a loss. Although I've never had this happen as I don't arb.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by simplemind)
I just wanted to chip in and say that they don't need evidence to take away your winnings, and could do so if they wished. If they're suspicious they could give you back your deposit and take away your bonus/winnings, which in their eyes is free money but if you've sunk the money into Betfair, you'll be making a loss. Although I've never had this happen as I don't arb.

They could try but we should not let them get away with it. They are allowed to to limit us or close our accounts only. But they cannot seize winnings or you can report them to their regulators if they try to do it. Some of their terms are unenforceable as they cannot prove you are really MBing since most shrewed punters would also behave the same way as we do.

[united2000]

(Original post by bkeevin)
They could try but we should not let them get away with it. They are allowed to to limit us or close our accounts only. But they cannot seize winnings or you can report them to their regulators if they try to do it. Some of their terms are unenforceable as they cannot prove you are really MBing since most shrewed punters would also behave the same way as we do.

Let me give you a little story about what happened to me with a major UK bookie.

I had not been MB long at the time and was going through the free bets at Paddy Power. Paddy Power are a massive bookie, UK bookie etc so not some no name foreign bookie which seemed risky.

I bet on an international U21 game which took place around 1am.
It however was an arb.

I was still awake when the game finished and was disapointed i had won at the bookie, thought cant be arsed at 3am to log into PP and withdraw the winnings and put it back into Betfair.
So i went to bed and didnt think anymore of it.

I logged into PP in the morning and noticed the balance was far short of what it should have been. I looked at the logs and noticed my £400 had been paid into my account at 3am, withdrawn at 7am (traders new shift probably) and my bet stake refunded.

If i had won at Betfair this would have been free money, but i know they wouldnt have refunded my bet it if had lost!

So I get onto PP stating why they had voided my bet, and for two occasions they just copy and pasted their terms and conditions in an email, not even relating to the bet. (They were stating i bet on a HT/FT bet which had already reached HT so was void).

It was only until i got more agressive and used words like stolen or theft they gave me my money back. No emails, they just said we will look into it.
I was logged on most of the day, constantly refreshing my balance and they withdraw it all as soon as it got in, robbing ***.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by united2000)
Let me give you a little story about what happened to me with a major UK bookie.

I had not been MB long at the time and was going through the free bets at Paddy Power. Paddy Power are a massive bookie, UK bookie etc so not some no name foreign bookie which seemed risky.

I bet on an international U21 game which took place around 1am.
It however was an arb.

I was still awake when the game finished and was disapointed i had won at the bookie, thought cant be arsed at 3am to log into PP and withdraw the winnings and put it back into Betfair.
So i went to bed and didnt think anymore of it.

I logged into PP in the morning and noticed the balance was far short of what it should have been. I looked at the logs and noticed my £400 had been paid into my account at 3am, withdrawn at 7am (traders new shift probably) and my bet stake refunded.

If i had won at Betfair this would have been free money, but i know they wouldnt have refunded my bet it if had lost!

So I get onto PP stating why they had voided my bet, and for two occasions they just copy and pasted their terms and conditions in an email, not even relating to the bet. (They were stating i bet on a HT/FT bet which had already reached HT so was void).

It was only until i got more agressive and used words like stolen or theft they gave me my money back. No emails, they just said we will look into it.
I was logged on most of the day, constantly refreshing my balance and they withdraw it all as soon as it got in, robbing ***.

What a disgraceful behaviour from presumably the biggest bookie in Europe. Those eejits hoped you would let it go since you only won with a freebet. They will always surrender if you fight back since they know they got no leg to stand from if you report them to their ombudsman or regulator. They can only steal from us if we let them. They simply cannot rely on spurious terms to deny us our winnings.

[MB678]

Can anyone explain the benefit of using a service like Moneybookers or an e-wallet, assuming you don't mind waiting a bit longer for withdrawals to a bank account?

Is there any downside to using a debit card with a bank account just for MB?

[simplemind]

(Original post by bkeevin)
What a disgraceful behaviour from presumably the biggest bookie in Europe. Those eejits hoped you would let it go since you only won with a freebet. They will always surrender if you fight back since they know they got no leg to stand from if you report them to their ombudsman or regulator. They can only steal from us if we let them. They simply cannot rely on spurious terms to deny us our winnings.

Who can i report a bookie to?

[bkeevin]

(Original post by simplemind)
Who can i report a bookie to?

Well if it is a UK bookie you can use IBAS-UK who provide provide a sort arbitration service. I think Aldernay deals with most of the international bookies. Remember you need to try to resolve the problem with the bookie first before contacting them ensuring that you have emails as proof of that. I have not really ever used any of them since I never faced such problems but sportsbookreview.com(SBR) has a free service that liaises with the bookies on behalf of customers and they maybe a better/easier first port of call.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by MB678)
Can anyone explain the benefit of using a service like Moneybookers or an e-wallet, assuming you don't mind waiting a bit longer for withdrawals to a bank account?

Is there any downside to using a debit card with a bank account just for MB?

Some banks are suspicious of gambling transactions and may not extend credit to you if you gamble and some may even close your account(HSBC). Banks like santander and lloyds seem ok with gambling though so I would say it is better to open a second account and use it solely for MBing so as to keep your main account tidy. Some bookies also have bonuses exclusive to moneybookers deposits.

[MB678]

(Original post by bkeevin)
Some banks are suspicious of gambling transactions and may not extend credit to you if you gamble and some may even close your account(HSBC). Banks like santander and lloyds seem ok with gambling though so I would say it is better to open a second account and use it solely for MBing so as to keep your main account tidy. Some bookies also have bonuses exclusive to moneybookers deposits.

Interesting. Thank you for the help.

Can anyone see any downside to having two bank accounts with the same bank? So one for regular finances, the other specifically for MB. Would this have any negative affect on your credit rating or regular bank account?

Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable with all this MB stuff, I'm just making sure it's not going to have any negative affect on my finances in the future. This thread is a big help.

[Movember]

do 888.com have a free bet offer? i can't find it and links from other sites don't work.

what sites can i get exclusive free bets from? apart from OLBG.

[Aristotle's' Disciple]

I have to ask, why is there a limit to how much you could make, I mean, can't you just sign up again with another banks details and make the same amount again? Where's the limit to the profit you can make from MB? And once you've fully grasped it, can you apply it to most bets?

[Movember]

(Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple)
I have to ask, why is there a limit to how much you could make, I mean, can't you just sign up again with another banks details and make the same amount again? Where's the limit to the profit you can make from MB? And once you've fully grasped it, can you apply it to most bets?

you cant make more than 1 account at a bookies per person, address or IP address. go ahead and try but i am certain you will be banned before you know it.

[Aristotle's' Disciple]

(Original post by Movember)
you cant make more than 1 account at a bookies per person, address or IP address. go ahead and try but i am certain you will be banned before you know it.

Haha, wasn't going to try but i was just curious to know what's the catch for that. Gonna move onto bigger things anyways *arbitrage*

[AlexInWonderland]

2 Qs guys:

1) On Bwin, the T&Cs for a £20 free bet include:
"The complete amount deposited must be wagered at least once and the bonus at least 5 times on sports bets exclusively at bwin before a withdrawal is possible"
Does this mean I need to make 5x£20 bets to be able to withdraw? Obviously if I loose at the bookies the first time this isn't a problem, but if I have an unlucky string of wins at the bookie it's gna eat into the profits.

2) Unibet has a £20 risk free offer. As I understand it, this means if I loose at the bookies, I will get a £20 free bet. But this means to profit I need to ensure I loose at the bookies, right?
Is there a way to make profit if I win at the bookies, someone mentioned 'underlaying' before. As I understand, this means laying less than the optimal amount at the exchange, so if I win at the bookies, the profit will be greater than the amount lost at Betfair. Is there a way to calculate the optimal amount of underlay?

Cheers

[bkeevin]

(Original post by AlexInWonderland)
2 Qs guys:

1) On Bwin, the T&Cs for a £20 free bet include:
"The complete amount deposited must be wagered at least once and the bonus at least 5 times on sports bets exclusively at bwin before a withdrawal is possible"
Does this mean I need to make 5x£20 bets to be able to withdraw? Obviously if I loose at the bookies the first time this isn't a problem, but if I have an unlucky string of wins at the bookie it's gna eat into the profits.

2) Unibet has a £20 risk free offer. As I understand it, this means if I loose at the bookies, I will get a £20 free bet. But this means to profit I need to ensure I loose at the bookies, right?
Is there a way to make profit if I win at the bookies, someone mentioned 'underlaying' before. As I understand, this means laying less than the optimal amount at the exchange, so if I win at the bookies, the profit will be greater than the amount lost at Betfair. Is there a way to calculate the optimal amount of underlay?

Cheers

Well the solution to both of your questions is essentially the same. You should treat them both as an SNR freebet and use higher odds. Your MB spreadsheet will calculate for you how much to lay and you may decide and underlay it by £2-3 depending on how much you wanna make.

When doing bwin it is better to whack your whole balance on the first selection so that you are more likely to be bust and get your all your money at betfair. But if you win here you would have made more than £40 profit and you should not lose alot by wagering the extra £80-100, so no need to use high odds or underlay again.

As for unibet using high odds and treating it as an SNR freebet guarantees you the profit whether you win at the bookie or not.

[mali167]

I placed a 2x10pound bets on bet365 and lost.

How does that 200 pound offer work. I did deposit 10 pound after signing up but now its asking me to deposit more. I don't understand a word of that rollover bit.

Thanks

[ChayC]

Hi, Just used fixedtheodds.com for my first matched bet just a minute ago and used the paddypower offer which is now at the "first stage" of the bet process. Anyway with how simple and quick that to do I am curious really as to whether or not I would be able to just make a few different betfair accounts and FTO accounts to go with them, so that In affect any "profit being made could be doubled or what ever by doing the same process multiple times on the same offers using different accounts? anyone tried this or even know if you can?

EDIT: just read the post above about it but would still be curious to see if anyone has tried it none the less!

[Intellectual Smart G]

has anyone done risk free bets, if so? how do you go about doing it and making maximumum profit? and also for the £200 Bet365 instant deposit?