RAF v Fleet Air Arm

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I'm talkin bout 1s, that's what we're arguin about. RAF 3s are fairly dire an all like, some grotty grey jumper that some Granny knitted.

Reply 21

Officerwannabe

wow

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Don't dis the RAF uniforms!
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DJ,
Was there really that much discrimination right up to 2000?

Reply 22

Wzz

djmarkmclachlan

It aint in service yet, so it is called the 128 for now, which is why I have called it that. If they call it Hawk T33, I'll call it that, if and when it is confirmed.

You called it the "Hawk T128." It's called the "Hawk 128." The "T" designator belongs to the forces. People (myself included) were correcting you because you called it the "T128." Look up at your posts previously.

djmarkmclachlan

'I'm in the navy' 'Ooooh' *wink*. Chicks do like the RN uniform, thats why they use them so often in porno's, aint it?

Credible. You're evidently after a different class of girl to most mates of mine in the RAF....

djmarkmclachlan

I know they will be training on the Harrier, thats what I said; when the serving Harrier pilots, get old and retire, they will need freshies to take their place.

You said the RN's recruiting people to fly the JSF. They're not, they're recruiting people to fly RAF GR7s and 9s with a view to converting to JSF after 2014 or thereabouts. A very pertinent difference.

djmarkmclachlan

I didn't say they will be training for the F-35 just now, but in the future.

Well, you said:

what I was saying is how the RN is now promoting that the pilots will be training for the JSF, not the Harrier.

Which isn't the case. As I've pointed out time and time again, they're training people to be Harrier pilots for at least the next 10 years. JSF is a long, long way away, and it's entirely feasible that RN FJ pilots joining now or in training now will never see it.

djmarkmclachlan

when they decide it's called the T2, then I will call it the T2, but for now, we have a series number, so we should call it by its series number, as not to cause confusion.

You were calling it the Hawk T128 as mentioned. It's not that; it's the Hawk 128, and will become the Hawk T2 (perhaps) when we accept the first airframe.

djmarkmclachlan

the RN were not training Harrier pilots, but just waiting for RN folks to be trained up for the F-35.

What?

djmarkmclachlan

I don't know how you can say there is just as much chance of going RW in the RAF as there is in the RN, seing as the RN only have a select few going for FJ, the rest are RW, and the RAF having a lot more AC, you are more likely to get something you don't want in the RAF than the RN (if you want RW that is).

It's all about numbers. You need to look at the number of pilots the RAF annually recruits compared to the RN, then the percentage of both who go onto an RW future, then the percentage of your average RN/RAF rotary course which ends up on SAR duties.

Reply 23

djmm

JayD,

Please, no. The jumpers are sexy as hell. That is nicest part of the kit. You have no taste if you you don't like it.

Officerwannabe,

Yeah.

Wzz,

I apologise for including the T. As thats where this argument stemmed from.

A teacher is quite professional, aint it? And out on the town, what can you expect to meet? And I don't pretend to be better than I am, just a normal guy, I don't like to think of 'class' on a night-out.

What I pointed out, was simply that I seen pamphlets, looking to the future, saying of the oppertunity to fly the JCA in the future.

The confusion, which caused this, was that I got picked up wrong. I didn't say they were not training pilots on the Harrier, I said they were advertising that pilots may fly the JCA in the future. Which is where most of this has come from.

Do you have these numbers? I'm interested. I still can't see (percentage wise) how there is the same amount of pilots going RW in the RN, as the RAF. Perhaps numbers wise, but not the percentage of pilots that join annually. Seing as there is the select few which go FJ in the RN, and there is much more FW in the RAF. You are most likely to go RW in the RN, but not in the RAF. I don't doubt you're right, but that would mean that there is next to no pilots, going ME and FJ per year from the RAF. What I was meaning by the percentage of SAR, is that the RN has more RW, so a RW pilot in the RN has more a chance of getting SAR if he wanted it, than the RAF guy.

Any spelling mistakes, sorry - hungover.

Mark.

Reply 24

BlackHawk

This isn't becoming a pissing contest, is it?

A what? lol

djmarkmclachlan

The Crabs uniform is just disgusting though.

Oops, what I meant to say was that the *Pongo's* uniform is disgusting. Silly me, mixed them up.

Mark.

Reply 27

GR4pilot

To be fair if you're in the RAF and get RW and you want SAR you're 90% sure to get it. I was chatting to the guys at DHFS a few weeks agao and the guy who decides where they're going and the opinion was that no one wants to fly yellow, everybody wants green. So as it's partially down to choice and no-one else picks that choice there's a good chance. Although of course you have to get RW - I don't know how hard that is.

Reply 28

djmm

Would be nice to fly in the RAF, and do some good too. I would like to help fish people out the sea, or find them in on a mountain, as much as I would like to fly the Typhoon or the JSF. I know there are 6 RAF to 2 RN SAR Squadrons, but I just thought it'd be easier to get SAR, if you're already RW trained? Which is why I thought the RN would yield a better chance of getting it, should you make it past selection.

Mark.

Reply 29

spartan 117

mankyscot2

The Navy likes its Pilots to be Officers first and Pilots second, it is a very very demanding job. Now the RAF even though it is just as demanding, isn't so stringent about Pilots being Officers first infact they like you to take your position as a Pilot just as seriously as being a leader.

hugh trenchard the founder of the R.A.F. was the first person to say this about R.A.F. pilots, he wanted the officers to be effctive in combat, he saw the R.A.F. as a fighting force that just happened to fly. Sorry but this is an R.A.F. principle traditionally.

Reply 30

BlackHawk

He didn't say it wasn't?

Reply 31

spartan 117

point is that he inferred the R.A.F. trains pilots first, officers second, when one of the historical principles of the R.A.F. is that you're an officer first and a pilot second. this is probably true of the navy as he said, but... maybe i read it wrong it just seemed like he was saying something untrue, i only brought it up cos i was reading some R.A.F. stuff the other day and when i saw that post it reminded me!!! :smile:

Reply 32

BlackHawk

Glad to see you've been reading up :wink:

Whens the next study session?

To be honest it's a massive ambition of mine to fly, however I wouldn't sacrifice being an Officer. For me it is Officer first and Pilot second. That may sound crazy but being with Wzz has shown me what it's like to be an Officer and it's just something I don't want to do without!

Reply 33

BlackHawk

To anyone who thinks that because the RN are desperate for pilots it's easy to get FJ as opposed to the RAF:

"The RN has up to 60 places a year at DEFTS and aims to select around 10 a year in to the fast jet pipeline with the rest being selected for rotary wing training.... With 10 selected from EFT and 5 slots a year on the Harrier OCU there is stiff competition and RN pilots are not able to dispose to twin seat cockpits like the Tornado F3 or GR4. "

Reply 34

Dave_n

RN Pilots are more skilled.

Wait for the back lash..

Reply 35

BlackHawk

How so?

I think anyone that ends up a B2 QFI is just as qualified as the guy who wound up on 19 6 months early with the RN.

RN pilots on the whole may seem more skilled as they are harrier guys, not something to be undertaken lightly. However to say that they are better than RAF guys going through 208 is unfounded.

Reply 36

Dave_n

I admire the RN more but i am RM.

Just think about it, landing on a moving deck, with limited space in the SEA!

also 847 NAS Commando Helicoptor Force, fly the sea kings and chinoks just to get Royal around!

Dont take what i say to seriously ok.

Reply 37

KSpin

You know, the RAF Harrier pilots also land on aircraft carriers.

EDIT: Not all the time, obviously, but I do know that it does happen.

Reply 38

BlackHawk

Trying not too, should put that all posts are under the influence of a bit of tipple :wink:

Have to admit that landing on a carrier is not something I would want to try, but apparently they have three chances at it as they have three safety catches when they hit the deck.

(Excuse the lack of technical terms :redface:

)

Reply 39

Dave_n

believe they are called slings?

Do you know the the british invented the ramp at the end of the deck to give the aircraft a little bit of encouragement