£1 an hour to clear rubbish...new IDS blitz on the workshy

Scroll to see replies

sooo if they dont turn up, they lose ALL their income for 3 months... i somehow dont see how the government is going to be allowed to make people destitute, even if they do bring it upon theirselves...

this could go very, very wrong

I suppose the argument is: why should they have any income at all if they aren't doing any work? Especially if their income is sourced from the taxes of those who are.

Also, from what I gathered from the article it doesn't appear to be everyone on JSA who will be forced into Workfare, only those who do not actively seek employment. This seems fair, the whole idea of Job Seeker's Allowance is to provide survival money for people whilst they look for a job; it is not designed to be 'free money' for those who do not even attempt to find work.

People seem to be criticising the proposed system, ignoring the fact that it will not apply to ALL unemployed people, only to those who refuse to look for employment. I'm very left-wing, but I can certainly see the benefit of this system. We get student loans so we can better ourselves, but we have to pay it back; we get healthcare, but everyone has to contribute, same with education; why someone who is contributing nothing be given everything? Obviously people who've been made redundant need something to tide them over until they can find another job, but this payment is meant to be temporary - it's not meant to be a substitute for earning a wage.

Reply 21

Wangers

Original post by Barden

And in reality, if you don't turn up for work, you get sacked. Simples.

Reply 22

TKC

So, where are these jobs that the workshy people are meant to be avoiding?

Reply 23

screenager2004

What about unemployed parents? I find it highly suspect that the report and news articles cite 1.9m children living in workless households: if the parent is forced to pick garbage for 30 hours a week, what happens to the child? Obviously they can't pay for childcare for 30 hours a week - and the reality is that parental commitments is one of the biggest barriers to employment.

This scheme will only ever apply to a very very tiny minority of the population, a couple hundred people at most. Middle classes and the media love to perpetuate the myth that those on benefits are merely 'scroungers', apparently choosing to live on £65 a week.

Reply 24

Glen_Nichols

Original post by fire2burn

Like Profesh says what happens to those who's job it is to pick up litter or manage public flower beds/gardens?

Will they be put out of a job by these people working on a lower wage?

Then they would have to do the same job for £1 per hour plus their dole money!

Reply 25

username133326

Original post by JackGoMad

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that scroungers should be supported by the state, I'm merely questioning the morality of turfing them out onto the street when the government can at least provide them with food and shelter. Also, what of the children/dependents of anyone who refuses to work under this system?

At the very least there should surely be a system of food stamps (i.e. like in the USA) and some sort of hostel type system. I mean we don't really want the workshy starving in the gutter do we? It'd be most unsightly if nothing else...

Reply 26

harmonize

The sort of people who aren't getting work at the moment because they cba aren't going to think 'oh noes, no dole if I don't do this or that, I'd better do something', they're going to think '****ing poshos' and go out 'nicking' and mugging or dealing drugs and generally making life difficult and nasty for middle class people. Or they'll just become alcoholics.

Things like this work in America because there is so much social segregation, it's a big place and the underclass tend to be grouped together and away from normal people so it's harder for them to negatively effect the middle classes. It won't work in the UK because the underclasses classes are so near the normal people, meaning they can quickly bring about a negative effect.

Personally I think that when you are on the dole and not looking for work you should have your citizenship stripped away from you - government should exclusively work to make the middle and upper classes lives better, while keeping the underclass well away.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 27

Fusilero

They still get their dole alongside the £1/hr, no?

While I support it in theory there are far too many ways this extremely cheap workforce could be abused.

Reply 28

Left Hand Drive

Original post by Psyk

But if you look at it differently, they are actually getting paid more than that. They are getting paid £1 an hour + their dole money.

I don't see how it's slave labour. They are getting paid and they are not forced to do it. They are free to refuse to do the work and stop receiving unemployment benefits.

Practicaly forced I mean "Work for £1 ph or you can stave to death"

Reply 29

renlok

Original post by katyness

I didnt read everything but £1/h is evil...

Maybe so but the idea of it is to stop the society of people who live on dole money and think that its a perfectly ok thing to do. At the moments there's nothing really stopping people from doing nothing and just living of job seekers allowance.

And for the people saying it doesn't give them any skills so what if they want skills they can go to collage or do an internship or one of the many many things you can. Its forcing people to work for what they get and its chit pay to encourage them to find actual work and its helping the community. I dont see how this can be seen as a bad thing although unfortunately i cant see this actually being accepted.

Reply 30

Phantom_X

I think this is a rather ridiculous idea, although I can see (and it has shown) the standard upper middle class approval of IDS in tackling the 'underclass heathens' while they ofc are financed by their parents and have little to no understanding of the real world.

question is, will they be saying the same thing if they can't find a job when the time comes ? Will they accept low wage labour, just as they are saying those on JSA should ?

Reply 31

username345307

Original post by Fusilero

They still get their dole alongside the £1/hr, no?

While I support it in theory there are far too many ways this extremely cheap workforce could be abused.

Nah I don't think they do.

There are things people on JSA can do though to help them get back into work like voluntary work, work experience in a kitchen or shop. I know someone that's been on the dole for a very long time and won't do unpaid work even if it'll help him get a job in the long run.

I don't know how much housing benefit is, but people get that on top of JSA don't they?

Reply 32

Left Hand Drive

Original post by harmonize

"underclasses classes are so near the normal people, meaning they can quickly bring about a negative effect"

So WORKING class people are not normal?

"Personally I think that when you are on the dole and not looking for work you should have your citizenship stripped away from you "

Are you going ask for a holocaust of the poor next?

"government should exclusively work to make the middle and upper classes lives better, while keeping the underclass well away"

Yeah work on making the lives of people with comfortable lives already even better! Forget the poor the people who struggle

Im responding to a troll arnt i?

Reply 33

Aj12

Original post by chemical_bex

I am SOO happy I just got another job.
But I don't think it's fair saying people on job seekers sit around 'doing nothing'

From what I heard this is aimed more at the long term unemployed

Reply 34

Psyk

Original post by Left Hand Drive

Practicaly forced I mean "Work for £1 ph or you can stave to death"

Does that mean if we had no benefits system all work would be "practically forced"? I don't really see how it's any more like slavery than any job. Either way you do not have to do the job, but without it you will have no money and therefore you will not be able to buy food.

Reply 35

Left Hand Drive

Original post by Psyk

The one pound an hour wages. Its almost free labour! Employers cant pay people that why should the government!

Reply 36

harmonize

Original post by Left Hand Drive

Nope. I believe society should be in many ways a meritocracy - unemployed people who've been on the dole for years don't bring any merit to society, I see no reason why they should be allowed to vote or disturb other people's lives.

Most middle class people work hard to be comfortable. Most underclass people are there because they don't work hard and make poor life decisions. It's not my fault that Delon on the dole decided to sniff glue instead of revising for his GCSEs, I shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of his mistakes and I shouldn't have to give my money to the government to give him a good life; and I don't want him voting in and on a system which he brings nothing to.

The underclass are the people on the dole who don't work, working class people are poorish people who work. There is a difference.

Reply 37

onthejubileeline

Original post by Profesh

What happens to the people whose job it currently is to clear rubbish?

This!

What happens when all the litter-pickers lose their jobs to those on JSA? Won't they have to seek benefits themselves and end up with the same job, except for a far lower salary?

Reply 38

RyanT

Original post by IGX_RSV2

Is this going a bit too far? I mean come on £1 hour and workfare that doesn't actually give anyone any skills.

I think they should receive the same jobseekers as before whilst doing the work.

I don't think there is an excuse for lowering the amount of job seekers paid to someone who is happy to do this work - just because a bureaucrat picked you out.

Perhaps the way the article is worded is wrong. But the current wording quite explicitly says income for the claimant is going to be reduced for 4 weeks without any reasoning to why it should be reduced - especially if they are working as well?

The hours are a bit excessive as well. Rather then 1 person doing 30 hours / week for a month at the random decision of a bureaucrat I think you should have a 2 month grace period at the start of job seekers, then you have to work 15 hours / week for a £0 wage; every week you claim job seekers.

I don't see why they should be paid at all for doing the job? The company doing the hiring should pay expenses for travel though.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 39

RyanT

Original post by Barden

How is the government making people destitute?

It has given people an opportunity to get the money. If they choose to not take that opportunity, then nobody is being forced to do anything.