The Student Room Group

Mandarin - complete novice to fluency.

Scroll to see replies

Reply 20
Original post by mrnightcat
-


Ah no, that's perfectly fine. It's up to the individual when it comes to the perceiving the difficulty of the language in question anyway. I for one, choose to think optimistically and while your points are very valid, they are also not always the case as I have experienced time and time again.

Just today I waltzed into a Chinese reflexology store, a Chinese restaurant, and a few Chinese shops all the while conversing in Mandarin that was clearly out of tone. Yet I did not have any problems with communications at all -- in fact, I kept to a certain cadence that is spoken by the majority of the people in the country, and I managed fine. In fact, I was able to keep up with lively banter in Mandarin, and the shopowners did not feel that my Mandarin was bad enough to need correction (they didn't even bat an eye when I spoke, actually. It was like they thought I was local or something). I will not of course, say that speaking out of tone is a good thing, but I am just saying that it is definitely not necessary in order to be understood in daily conversations. And get this: I am not a native in Mandarin. I didn't even study Mandarin. I just picked it up whilst living in Malaysia.

Personally though, this "study" that foreigners seem to love to do is not the most important when wanting to learn how to speak Mandarin. Naturally, if you wish to learn to read or write, some degree of self-study in order to recognise the characters is expected. But speaking a tonal language needs listening skills, and what better way to hone these listening skills than to listen to natives talking? This is precisely why I say that you can learn to understand Mandarin (even more so than Spanish or German or other European languages) by simply listening to it being spoken. Vocab will of course, be acquired naturally, like a baby :yep: What is fascinating is that my Bulgarian friend managed to understand most of daily conversation within two or so months of moving here, and she didn't bother to do any study! She doesn't speak it though, because she can't be bothered to, but at least she knows enough to manoeuvre around the place without much problems at all.

I will of course, not gloss it over. What I was trying to say all this while is that Mandarin is extremely easy to pick up, but extremely hard to perfect , especially if you're being anal about your tones being right all the time :biggrin:

I also see that your location is currently in China. It is true that accents in China tends to have more enunciated tones (the Beijing accent is traumatising :s-smilie:), so you probably can't get away as much by speaking out of tone like I do.

Oh, and the OP needs to clarify what he means by 'reasonable degree of fluency'. My interpretation of it is that the OP wants to know enough Mandarin to get around day-to-day, although your interpretation might be different still, hence the clash in opinion.

I'm also very bad at time estimations. A year, or two makes no difference to me at all!
Original post by asparkyn
Ah no, that's perfectly fine. It's up to the individual when it comes to the perceiving the difficulty of the language in question anyway. I for one, choose to think optimistically and while your points are very valid, they are also not always the case as I have experienced time and time again.

Just today I waltzed into a Chinese reflexology store, a Chinese restaurant, and a few Chinese shops all the while conversing in Mandarin that was clearly out of tone. Yet I did not have any problems with communications at all -- in fact, I kept to a certain cadence that is spoken by the majority of the people in the country, and I managed fine. In fact, I was able to keep up with lively banter in Mandarin, and the shopowners did not feel that my Mandarin was bad enough to need correction (they didn't even bat an eye when I spoke, actually. It was like they thought I was local or something). I will not of course, say that speaking out of tone is a good thing, but I am just saying that it is definitely not necessary in order to be understood in daily conversations. And get this: I am not a native in Mandarin. I didn't even study Mandarin. I just picked it up whilst living in Malaysia.

Personally though, this "study" that foreigners seem to love to do is not the most important when wanting to learn how to speak Mandarin. Naturally, if you wish to learn to read or write, some degree of self-study in order to recognise the characters is expected. But speaking a tonal language needs listening skills, and what better way to hone these listening skills than to listen to natives talking? This is precisely why I say that you can learn to understand Mandarin (even more so than Spanish or German or other European languages) by simply listening to it being spoken. Vocab will of course, be acquired naturally, like a baby :yep: What is fascinating is that my Bulgarian friend managed to understand most of daily conversation within two or so months of moving here, and she didn't bother to do any study! She doesn't speak it though, because she can't be bothered to, but at least she knows enough to manoeuvre around the place without much problems at all.

I will of course, not gloss it over. What I was trying to say all this while is that Mandarin is extremely easy to pick up, but extremely hard to perfect , especially if you're being anal about your tones being right all the time :biggrin:

I also see that your location is currently in China. It is true that accents in China tends to have more enunciated tones (the Beijing accent is traumatising :s-smilie:), so you probably can't get away as much by speaking out of tone like I do.

Oh, and the OP needs to clarify what he means by 'reasonable degree of fluency'. My interpretation of it is that the OP wants to know enough Mandarin to get around day-to-day, although your interpretation might be different still, hence the clash in opinion.

I'm also very bad at time estimations. A year, or two makes no difference to me at all!


From what you've said, the only thing I can conclude from it - and I don't mean to be rude at all - is that there must be differences in the way Mandarin is spoken in Malaysia and China. Because I for one, however fluently or comfortably I spoke, would never get the message across fully if I spoke out of tone. If I speak out of tone, my teacher, the local convenience shop lady, the building guard downstairs and my girlfriend will all stop me and correct me. If they didn't correct me after I spoke wrongly, it's because they didn't understand what I said. Perhaps the situation is different in Malaysia, but here in China at least, being anal about tones is the only way you'll avoid misunderstanding in front of locals if you speak out of tone - that's my experience and the experience of most others. I'm surprised you say that tones aren't important for being understood in daily conversation, because from day 1 in both daily life experiences and in the classroom, they are almost the number 1 most paramount thing to get right in order to be understood.

And it depends on how much you've learned too. When you walked into the shops, what were the words and topics did you talk about? I really don't believe that it's possible to just pick up anything more than very basic spoken Mandarin from sitting and listening to it without study, or listening to locals speak - we're not children anymore in that we pick up via osmosis, and again, I'm not at all trying to be rude, but surely your Mandarin must have very tight limitations if you've not actually studied it.

People here in China always compliment me on my Mandarin, telling me how standard it is, etc - but haha, they don't mean it. It's politeness, to give me face and encourage me to speak better. When I first came to China, I'd get overdone compliments from everyone after speaking two elementary words. It's only now that I'm at a high intermediate level that they realise I'm studying seriously, and give me realistic advice and criticism.

Going out and speaking with locals is part of the whole study of Mandarin. I do it every day - talking with my girlfriend in Mandarin along with every Chinese person I talk to, even my non-Chinese classmates. Naturally, being in a Mandarin environment, almost every voice you hear is speaking Mandarin. My listening is one of my strongest skills right now.

To actually learn grammar, build vocabulary and fully understand Chinese, you need to study it. Speaking and listening basically solidifies that - you can only speak and comprehend what you already know when it comes to Mandarin, or what is being taught to you at that time.

I understand all the points you've been making, and just want to respectfully say that I don't agree with some of them.
(edited 13 years ago)

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending