article in the vet times..
we have had quite a lot of question topics opposed to chatty ones on the vet forum recently, so i thought i'd start one 
there was an article in the vet times which said that it has been suggested by one of the deans (doesn't say which) that EMS should not be compulsory for students in the future, but voluntary. the reasons were that now the fees are increasing some of them will not be able to fund their places or find them - it is 'unsustainable'. obviously it was quite heavily opposed by others.
sooo what are your views on this?
i don't think it should be voluntary. you can't become a vet without any experience! imagine being a vet who is scared of sheep
there was an article in the vet times which said that it has been suggested by one of the deans (doesn't say which) that EMS should not be compulsory for students in the future, but voluntary. the reasons were that now the fees are increasing some of them will not be able to fund their places or find them - it is 'unsustainable'. obviously it was quite heavily opposed by others.
sooo what are your views on this?
i don't think it should be voluntary. you can't become a vet without any experience! imagine being a vet who is scared of sheep
Original post by Lucy_x
we have had quite a lot of question topics opposed to chatty ones on the vet forum recently, so i thought i'd start one
there was an article in the vet times which said that it has been suggested by one of the deans (doesn't say which) that EMS should not be compulsory for students in the future, but voluntary. the reasons were that now the fees are increasing some of them will not be able to fund their places or find them - it is 'unsustainable'. obviously it was quite heavily opposed by others.
sooo what are your views on this?
i don't think it should be voluntary. you can't become a vet without any experience! imagine being a vet who is scared of sheep
there was an article in the vet times which said that it has been suggested by one of the deans (doesn't say which) that EMS should not be compulsory for students in the future, but voluntary. the reasons were that now the fees are increasing some of them will not be able to fund their places or find them - it is 'unsustainable'. obviously it was quite heavily opposed by others.
sooo what are your views on this?
i don't think it should be voluntary. you can't become a vet without any experience! imagine being a vet who is scared of sheep
they shouldn't make it voluntary.
They should just not raise fees for courses that are actually useful eg, vetmed, med, dentist, law, ...etc
and then all these mickey mouse degrees (no disrespect to anyone) that don't actually do much for your career prospects other than having a degree should be the only ones affected by the raise in fees.
Although that is a bit unfair, but can't think of a better solution!
Original post by Lucy_x
sooo what are your views on this?
These would certainly help:
-Recompense students with respect to travel and accommodation costs while on placement
-More evenly distribute the experience across the 5 years (ie; in the first couple of years you're doing practically nothing but in the final couple all of your holidays are filled with EMS and/or revision)
i don't think it should be voluntary. you can't become a vet without any experience!
The vast majority of the assessments are based on written or oral exams so providing you're academically able you could quite easily become a vet.
imagine being a vet who is scared of sheep
Quite a few vets have phobias, allergies or they plainly just don't like certain animals (or clients), given the diverse nature of veterinary science it isn't particularly a hindrance.
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They should just not raise fees for courses that are actually useful eg, vetmed, med, dentist, law, ...etc
and then all these mickey mouse degrees (no disrespect to anyone) that don't actually do much for your career prospects other than having a degree should be the only ones affected by the raise in fees.
and then all these mickey mouse degrees (no disrespect to anyone) that don't actually do much for your career prospects other than having a degree should be the only ones affected by the raise in fees.
It's a good idea but it's incredibly unlikely that that is ever going to happen.
Definately don't think it should be voluntary! Especially clinical EMS, surely that's really valuable for actually learning how to do procedures and seeing real life first opinion cases and how to deal with them?
If they're worried about students not being able to afford to do them why don't they just supply needy students with a bursary or financial support? Or help them find placements they don't have to travel to?
If they're worried about students not being able to afford to do them why don't they just supply needy students with a bursary or financial support? Or help them find placements they don't have to travel to?
I am pro EMS and think that there should be more!! I didn't enjoy vet school clinics for a number of reasons which I won't go in to. I think my time would have been better spent doing more EMS in place of certain (not all!) rotations.
EMS is the most accurate representation of what 90%+ of new grads will be spending their first few years in one way or another. Learning to deal (or how not to!) with clients is the most important skill to master. Rotations don't expose students to enough of this sort of thing. Doesn't matter how good you are at the job, if you can't talk to the clients and keep em happy, you sure know about it. You also learn lots of other skills on EMS, surgical skills, day to day practical tasks, practice management, record keeping, learning which diseases are common! The list is endless.
The biggest limiting factor is in finding a good placement where the vets allow you to do things and it's of course important to make the effort and sieze every opportunity to learn.
Just as an addition, I hate chickens and pigs & not treated a dog or cat since vet school!
EMS is the most accurate representation of what 90%+ of new grads will be spending their first few years in one way or another. Learning to deal (or how not to!) with clients is the most important skill to master. Rotations don't expose students to enough of this sort of thing. Doesn't matter how good you are at the job, if you can't talk to the clients and keep em happy, you sure know about it. You also learn lots of other skills on EMS, surgical skills, day to day practical tasks, practice management, record keeping, learning which diseases are common! The list is endless.
The biggest limiting factor is in finding a good placement where the vets allow you to do things and it's of course important to make the effort and sieze every opportunity to learn.
Just as an addition, I hate chickens and pigs & not treated a dog or cat since vet school!
I really enjoy doing EMS, and it is much more like the real world than going through the university hospitals. However, it is very very expensive to do EMS for a lot of people and it takes away the ability to earn during your holidays (as you don't really have any holidays in the last 3 years). It's also very hit and miss as to what you do get to do on your placements, and it does cost the practice time and money.
I'm not sure what the solution is, I would like them to completely fund EMS paying for all travel expenses and accommodation (if necessary). I do however live in the real world and know this won't happen but it does need to be addressed that in the final few years it is extraordinarily expensive to be at vet school and the SLC need to provide significantly larger loans.
A lot of my EMS choices have not been based on where would be the best placement for me but where is closest/cheapest for me to get to, which is not good from an educational point of view.
I'm not sure what the solution is, I would like them to completely fund EMS paying for all travel expenses and accommodation (if necessary). I do however live in the real world and know this won't happen but it does need to be addressed that in the final few years it is extraordinarily expensive to be at vet school and the SLC need to provide significantly larger loans.
A lot of my EMS choices have not been based on where would be the best placement for me but where is closest/cheapest for me to get to, which is not good from an educational point of view.
I am originally from North America, did my BSc there, and I think one of the STRENGTHS of the program here is the EMS. Not just the clinical EMS, but the animal husbandry EMS. My friends in North American schools by and large say they get very little husbandry experience beyond what they have at the time of entry (aka, what they got prior to starting the program). As a result, many may not have handled sheep, or cattle, or... until clinics, and have little practical understanding of how to work with these animals and the respective industries.
I have not yet done any clinical EMS, and while I acknowledge it is expensive, and makes finding a job and hence funding the degree difficult (as a North American GEP student, BOY do I know!), and that some practices will provide better opportunities than others, I expect this to be useful as well. Most vet schools are not "first opinion" practices, but referral centers. As a new graduate, I fully expect to work, for a time at least, under another vet in a first-opinion practice. Without EMS, where would I get these experiences? True, I could try and find paying jobs in one, but my experience so far has been that such positions are competitive, and in general people have seemed to be more willing to take on vet students via an accredited program (like EMS) than privately. I also would I think be less likely to get the breadth of experience that is recommended (or in the case of, for example, abbatoirs, required) by the program.
Certainly it is easier if one can find a local practice, or a practice that provides accommodation and/or recompense. I agree it would be nice to have this, but as far as the school funding it...where is that money going to come from? I already hear about how much the budget is stretched, and I certainly don't want higher tuition.
I have not yet done any clinical EMS, and while I acknowledge it is expensive, and makes finding a job and hence funding the degree difficult (as a North American GEP student, BOY do I know!), and that some practices will provide better opportunities than others, I expect this to be useful as well. Most vet schools are not "first opinion" practices, but referral centers. As a new graduate, I fully expect to work, for a time at least, under another vet in a first-opinion practice. Without EMS, where would I get these experiences? True, I could try and find paying jobs in one, but my experience so far has been that such positions are competitive, and in general people have seemed to be more willing to take on vet students via an accredited program (like EMS) than privately. I also would I think be less likely to get the breadth of experience that is recommended (or in the case of, for example, abbatoirs, required) by the program.
Certainly it is easier if one can find a local practice, or a practice that provides accommodation and/or recompense. I agree it would be nice to have this, but as far as the school funding it...where is that money going to come from? I already hear about how much the budget is stretched, and I certainly don't want higher tuition.
Definitely shouldn't make it voluntary, don't see how you can hope to become a good qualified vet with no practical experience first! Definitely would be good to spread it out more though. Stupid government raising uni fees... :/
Yeah I'm a first year and I'm already worried about how much EMS is going to cost me on top of five years of tuition and living expenses 
and not being able to get a job in the holidays is not going to help. I don't mind all of that though, I just wish there was some funding scheme available to at least give us a little bit of financial help.
Thank god we got into vet school when we did.
and not being able to get a job in the holidays is not going to help. I don't mind all of that though, I just wish there was some funding scheme available to at least give us a little bit of financial help. Thank god we got into vet school when we did.
Oh dear.. If I get into Vet School (*fingers crossed*) I'll have like £50000 debt with EMS costs on top :/ I think what 'ch0c0h01ic' said about recompensating people for costs is a very good idea.
If the starting salary / salary after a few years would be higher that would be less of an issue even if EMS undoubtedly gives you a bigger debt! But it's not going to happen in this climate.
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