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Medicine - Prospects post-graduation

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    Hey TSR,

    I have a question for all the medical graduates and/or people studying medicine who might be able to offer any useful insight into this topic:

    Does the university you attend to study medicine affect which foundation schools are likely to take you? I.e. does the London Deanery mostly accept London Graduates? Also does the medical school you attend have any bearing at all on your job prospects with a view to the more competitive specialities such as plastic surgery? It seems like most of the Harley Street plastic surgeons today all qualified from the London unis or Oxbridge yet it seems as though i'm probably gonna be goin to a less prestigious university (Manchester) in 2011. I'm just wondering whether this is due to the university they attend or possibly the networking benefits of going to these unis.

    Thanks in advance for your replies!


    P.s. I also appreciate that many of the posters on TSR have quite a penchant for responding with replies of consolation and/or anti-university snobbery ideals. Please refrain from posting unless you know with a good deal of certainty on this topic on foundation and speciality schools.
    :rolleyes:
    P.P.s. Also, i do appreciate that this thread is likely to draw the attention of many medical school applicants who haven't the faintest clue. I need proper answers please from the horse's mouth only!!!!!

    Sorry to be nasty, just getting answers from this forum sometimes leads to some serious facepalming.
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    Currently the applications for foundation posts are blinded. It does not matter where you went to medical school when applying for jobs.

    Prestige isn't really relevant unless you are working outside of the UK. It is about the training that you acquire post graduation.
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    Sarky's answer is brilliant and should be added to the wiki somewhere.

    What kind of impact does medical school have on consultant jobs?
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    I object to being called a horse.

    (Original post by Beska)
    What kind of impact does medical school have on consultant jobs?
    If the most important thing about you ten years after you've graduated is your alma mater, you're not going to be getting the job.
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    If the most important thing about you ten years after you've graduated is your alma mater, you're not going to be getting the job.
    Gotcha!
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    Applications to foundation posts are done on a national level, simply being a Barts student as opposed to a Leeds student won't itself make a difference if you decide to apply to the London Deanery.

    The FY1 applications are scored by somebody who is blind to the medical school you atteneded.

    Why is Manchester Medical School apprently 'unprestigeous' anyway?

    Do you have any stats for these Harley Street claims?
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    Woop.. I go to an un-prestigious medical school!!

    Anyway, as others have said, foundation applications are blinded to where you study.

    As far as ST1/CT1 applications go, it is again a national application system, and it will be what you've achieved in your FY1/FY2 jobs that matters. For non-runthrough ST3 applications you might have an increased chance of getting a job in the deanery you've done your ST/CT1 and 2 jobs in, but not necessarily. In short, your medical school matters not!

    As for the Harley Street plastic surgeons, I'm sure many of the older ones have come through an old-boy network, which is more or less obsolete these days.
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Currently the applications for foundation posts are blinded. It does not matter where you went to medical school when applying for jobs.

    Prestige isn't really relevant unless you are working outside of the UK. It is about the training that you acquire post graduation.
    Thanks for the helpful answer!

    I'm sorry to pester you once more about this, but i was wondering do the foundation schools at least see your degree letters? Such as MBBS, BMChB etc.
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    (Original post by CaptainFunk)
    Thanks for the helpful answer!

    I'm sorry to pester you once more about this, but i was wondering do the foundation schools at least see your degree letters? Such as MBBS, BMChB etc.
    Nope, the people scoring the form don't see anything like that. Literally the most each sees is your answer to 1 of the white space questions.
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    Yes for F1 and F2, applications are blinded but surely for jobs after your foundation years, the university you went to will have an effect (albeit a small one) on how favourable you're looked on as an applicant. Why else would they ask for it?

    Surely for the more competitive specialities, an Oxbridge/Imperial/UCL/GKT/Barts/Georges (and arguably Newcastle) medic will be
    at a slight advantage (just because of the institution they trained at) over another one who was 'equally as qualified' from a different university. Its easy just saying, 'it's all a fair game and everyone is on a level plaing field', but its not really that level. People deciding on your applications are human after all (and not robots who simply tick off boxes) so they will inevitably show some bias towards preferred instituitions which they believe train excellent doctors. Its a competitive field out there, and though people like to hide this, the fact is medical schools adopt their own way of training their doctors (in accordance to the GMC regualtions of course) so all this talk of GMC accreditation really only applies to FY posts which are blinded like has been mentioned. Of course your experiences, exams, extra qualifications, competence etc all come into play when applying for a CT/ST job, but so does the institution you trained at, even if it is to a small extent. To assume it has no effect whatsoever seems a little iffy.

    And I bet I'm going to get neg repped for this which really means sod all to me, but this is just my opinion, and also the opinion of others I've talked to years into their specialist training.
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    (Original post by Alfresco)
    Yes for F1 and F2, applications are blinded but surely for jobs after your foundation years, the university you went to will have an effect (albeit a small one) on how favourable you're looked on as an applicant. Why else would they ask for it?

    Surely for the more competitive specialities, an Oxbridge/Imperial/UCL/GKT/Barts/Georges (and arguably Newcastle) medic will be
    at a slight advantage (just because of the institution they trained at) over another one who was 'equally as qualified' from a different university. Its easy just saying, 'it's all a fair game and everyone is on a level plaing field', but its not really that level. People deciding on your applications are human after all (and not robots who simply tick off boxes) so they will inevitably show some bias towards preferred instituitions which they believe train excellent doctors. Its a competitive field out there, and though people like to hide this, the fact is medical schools adopt their own way of training their doctors (in accordance to the GMC regualtions of course) so all this talk of GMC accreditation really only applies to FY posts which are blinded like has been mentioned. Of course your experiences, exams, extra qualifications, competence etc all come into play when applying for a CT/ST job, but so does the institution you trained at, even if it is to a small extent. To assume it has no effect whatsoever seems a little iffy.

    And I bet I'm going to get neg repped for this which really means sod all to me, but this is just my opinion, and also the opinion of others I've talked to years into their specialist training.
    I certainly hope no one negs you as it is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Can anyone offer insight into these claims?

    I sure hope that the responses i've received so far are all realistic and not just examples of accommodating/empathetic paradigms which you doctors have been taught in PDS or something lol.
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    (Original post by CaptainFunk)
    Thanks for the helpful answer!

    I'm sorry to pester you once more about this, but i was wondering do the foundation schools at least see your degree letters? Such as MBBS, BMChB etc.
    Why would the letters matter? :confused:

    (Original post by Alfresco)
    Yes for F1 and F2, applications are blinded but surely for jobs after your foundation years, the university you went to will have an effect (albeit a small one) on how favourable you're looked on as an applicant. Why else would they ask for it?

    Surely for the more competitive specialities, an Oxbridge/Imperial/UCL/GKT/Barts/Georges (and arguably Newcastle) medic will be
    at a slight advantage (just because of the institution they trained at) over another one who was 'equally as qualified' from a different university. .
    Why those medical schools in particular out of interest? I have to say i'm not worried that going to Southampton will disadvantage me compared to anyone else when it comes to applying for specialist training. I think me intercalating, presenting at conferences and the experience I will get in foundation years will greatly outweigh any preconceived ideas about my medical school training.
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Why would the letters matter? :confused:



    Why those medical schools in particular out of interest? I have to say i'm not worried that going to Southampton will disadvantage me compared to anyone else when it comes to applying for specialist training. I think me intercalating, presenting at conferences and the experience I will get in foundation years will greatly outweigh any preconceived ideas about my medical school training.
    Its not an exhaustive list of which medical schools are superior or whatever (their all up to a certain standard or at least should be but others obviously have slightly better departments, not necessarily the ones I mentioned). It's just the major way medical schools are catergorised (certainly in the past) - Oxbridge, London, Newcastle, Others.


    And this is what I said. Extra qualifications, training, presentations, prizes etc can outweigh whatever bias there might be, but it wont always be the case. It can, but not always.
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    (Original post by Alfresco)
    Its not an exhaustive list of which medical schools are superior or whatever (their all up to a certain standard or at least should be but others obviously have slightly better departments, not necessarily the ones I mentioned). It's just the major way medical schools are catergorised (certainly in the past) - Oxbridge, London, Newcastle, Others.


    And this is what I said. Extra qualifications, training, presentations, prizes etc can outweigh whatever bias there might be, but it wont always be the case. It can, but not always.
    That may be the case if choosing an applicant was down to one person, or a group of people who all trained in the same place but i'm not sure how frequent an occurance that is. Until someone who has been through the process or is actually qualified tells me any different i'm inclined to think that post-graduation where you went to university won't have a signficant impact on your progress unless they are seriously lacking in other things to comment on.
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    All I have to say on the matter is that 98.6% of applicants from Warwick got their first choice in terms of the UKFPO application, so as a "newer" medical school (and potentially "unprestigious") it doesnt matter at all in terms of where you apply from for that!

    But further down the line, no-one will care about where your degree was from. The applications for ST/CMT recruitment base their requirements on national prizes, clinical aptitude and commitment to the specialty rather than "where you thought might sound impressive to your friends during 6th form"
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Why would the letters matter? :confused:


    Because that will narrow down what medical school you graduated from because different schools use different letters. If you are MB BChir then you definitely come from Cambridge, to use an extreme example.
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    I think it has a slight effect - a consultant at The London I was with for my SSC always went on about how excellent he thought the training at Imperial and UCL was. :nothing: We just sorta sat there in the background like :wtf:

    :p:

    There's probably some bias (later on in the application cycle) if truth be told, but I think they try to keep this to a minimum.
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    (Original post by graemematt)
    All I have to say on the matter is that 98.6% of applicants from Warwick got their first choice in terms of the UKFPO application, so as a "newer" medical school (and potentially "unprestigious") it doesnt matter at all in terms of where you apply from for that!

    But further down the line, no-one will care about where your degree was from. The applications for ST/CMT recruitment base their requirements on national prizes, clinical aptitude and commitment to the specialty rather than "where you thought might sound impressive to your friends during 6th form"
    Just a little point. Surely though your clinical aptitude is primarily gained from the clinical school you trained at (and obviously bettered in the FYs), but the basis is from your original institution. So in that regard, your argument implies that your choice of institution will in fact make a difference. :p: But I do see where you are coming from with the prizes and commitment to the specialty. That's also important.
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    (Original post by thisismycatch22)
    Because that will narrow down what medical school you graduated from because different schools use different letters. If you are MB BChir then you definitely come from Cambridge, to use an extreme example.
    Yes, but if the application is meant to be blinded then it would be silly to allow students' place of study to be identified by using the letters no?
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    (Original post by CaptainFunk)
    I certainly hope no one negs you as it is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Can anyone offer insight into these claims?

    I sure hope that the responses i've received so far are all realistic and not just examples of accommodating/empathetic paradigms which you doctors have been taught in PDS or something lol.
    All this "prestige" stuff is something that, as far as I can tell, 6th formers care about far more than doctors do. I can't say for sure that it would never make any difference to any application but tbh for the centralised UK specialty admissions processes, I really doubt most people give a crap where you went to medical school. When I ask other people where they went to uni (I am the only F2 from Cambridge in my hospital so I didn't know anyone when I started) it's more to see if we have any friends in common or anything like that, rather than so I can decide how superior I should feel. I certainly don't expect any special treatment and am petrified about the job app I have to submit on Monday!
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    (Original post by CaptainFunk)
    I certainly hope no one negs you as it is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Can anyone offer insight into these claims?

    I sure hope that the responses i've received so far are all realistic and not just examples of accommodating/empathetic paradigms which you doctors have been taught in PDS or something lol.
    All this "prestige" stuff is something that, as far as I can tell, 6th formers care about far more than doctors do. I can't say for sure that it would never make any difference to any application but tbh for the centralised UK specialty admissions processes, I really doubt most people give a crap where you went to medical school. When I ask other people where they went to uni (I am the only F2 from Cambridge in my hospital so I didn't know anyone when I started) it's more to see if we have any friends in common or anything like that, rather than so I can decide how superior I should feel. I certainly don't expect any special treatment and am petrified about the job app I have to submit on Monday!

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