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Private pupils 55 times as likely to go to Oxbridge

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    Private pupils 55 times as likely to go to Oxbridge

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Oxbridge.html

    Children at independent schools are 55 times more likely to go to Oxford or Cambridge than the poorest state school students, a report has found.
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    That's what they're trained to aim for at private school.
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    Proportionately the number of students at both universities is the same as the number of applicants from both types of schools. This statistic doesn't prove Oxford and Cambridge are biased in favour of either private or state pupils but it does show Comprehensive students are staggeringly less likely to apply.
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    ....What did you expect?
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    Nice to see the Daily Mail hasn't felt the need to go for a hysterical, OTT, thoroughly misleading headline.

    It's hardly surprising that students let down by the state education system don't have a particularly high chance of ending up at top universities.
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    I blaame the system
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    (Original post by intellectual1)
    Private pupils 55 times as likely to go to Oxbridge

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Oxbridge.html

    Children at independent schools are 55 times more likely to go to Oxford or Cambridge than the poorest state school students, a report has found.
    Essentially, don't blame Oxbridge, don't blame private schools, blame poor state schools.
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    Terrible headline. It is completely meanlingless (55 times as likely to go to Oxbridge as what?) Obviously most people are going to see that and immediately think it is compared to state school pupils in general. And if private school kids were 55 times as likely to go to Oxbridge as those at state schools then it may indeed be shocking. But this is not the case!

    The article also makes at least one obvious mistake in suggesting that this means that being on free school meals (i.e. being poor) is the cause of a lesser chance of getting into Oxbridge. When in fact it's likely that the two do not affect each other but share a more fundamental cause - attitudes of parents (lower aspirations, negative attitudes of parents towards education and "the system" in general) are going to both increase the likelihood of their kids being on free school meals and decrease the likelihood of them even considering applying to Oxbridge.
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    I think the point here is that fewer people % wise from state schools on school dinners get the grades required for Oxbridge compared to those from private schools, which is more a failing of the state school system than anything else (although I don't think the state can quite afford to educate every pupil to the same standard that Eton can, for example).
    I have one major problem with this article: why are Oxford and Cambridge singled out ALONE? Yes, they are both considered outstanding universities, but they are by no means the only universities that people who are getting A*AA and higher should be aspiring to.
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    well, either you are good enough to get in or not. many private schools are selective (i know some arent before you shout at me) so it makes sense if they are the smartest pupils, also, oxbridge aren't the only good unis out there, they just happen to be the ones most talked about, so its not like state schoolers are going to bad unis.

    also nice to see the newspaper not going at that article with the same sensationalist enthusiasm as usual
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    I don't understand the need for the Oxbridge bashing. Either you are good enough to go, or, you are not.
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    (Original post by mummyperson)
    It is a useful headline because it highlights the size of the gap between rich and poor in terms of achievement.
    You can do that without having to make it sound as if Oxford and Cambridge were somehow to blame for this state of affairs, though...:erm:
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    I could so easily become a Daily Mail journalist.

    ETON PUPILS 700,000,000 TIMES AS LIKELY TO GO TO OXBRIDGE
    than KoKo the gorilla
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    You can do that without having to make it sound as if Oxford and Cambridge were somehow to blame for this state of affairs, though...:erm:
    Good heavens hobnob you are ubersensitive no one thinks this is Oxbridge bashing except Oxbridge people. It is a head line about very real inequalities. Deal with it.
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    It's nice to see that the daily mail have missed out one vital statistic:

    Oxford and Cambridge Universities both cited research showing that of 176 students on free school meals who got three As at A-level in 2007, 45 went to Oxford or Cambridge.
    from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12048629 .

    Enough said really...
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    It's a stupid headline. Oxford's published statistics show that grammars are just as likely, overall, as independents, overall, to get pupils into Oxford. Some maintained schools have a dismal track record, which various initiatives are designed to ameliorate at the point of entry (UNIQ, the flagging system etc). Some independents (including some big names) do abysmally ( especially given the cost of the fees and the aspirations of the parents), while some always do breathtakingly well, with 50% of leavers gaining places at either Oxford or Cambridge (St. Paul's Girls', Westminster etc.). The crucial factor is about the level of selectivity of the individual school.

    People talk too often and too disparagingly of the lack of parental support for children at state schools. It may be well meaning but it's insulting to parents like myself, with three children at or soon to start at Oxford, technically eligible for FSM. Having watched my daughters and others go through the system at Oxford in three of the last four cycles of interviews it strikes me that the system bends over backwards to be fair and to select solely on merit. The re-introduction of grammars generally, with a decent alternative this time for those not able to get into or not choosing the grammars, would do more than anything else to address the inequalities referred to above.
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    (Original post by refref)
    It's nice to see that the daily mail have missed out one vital statistic:



    from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12048629 .

    Enough said really...
    approx 1 in 4 on free school meals who got 3 As got Oxbridge offers. It is not quite enough said because that is only the same odds as many independent school pupils. Whereas students at state schools who receive free school meals have really done fantastically well in terms of self motivation and independent study to get those grades.
    I would like to know if the reason this proportion wasn't higher is because the others applied elsewhere or because Oxford or Cambridge rejected them.
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    (Original post by MPtoo)
    It's a stupid headline. Oxford's published statistics show that grammars are just as likely, overall, as independents, overall, to get pupils into Oxford. Some maintained schools have a dismal track record, which various initiatives are designed to ameliorate at the point of entry (UNIQ, the flagging system etc). Some independents (including some big names) do abysmally ( especially given the cost of the fees and the aspirations of the parents), while some always do breathtakingly well, with 50% of leavers gaining places at either Oxford or Cambridge (St. Paul's Girls', Westminster etc.). The crucial factor is about the level of selectivity of the individual school.

    People talk too often and too disparagingly of the lack of parental support for children at state schools. It may be well meaning but it's insulting to parents like myself, with three children at or soon to start at Oxford, technically eligible for FSM. Having watched my daughters and others go through the system at Oxford in three of the last four cycles of interviews it strikes me that the system bends over backwards to be fair and to select solely on merit. The re-introduction of grammars generally, with a decent alternative this time for those not able or not choosing the grammars, would do more than anything else to address the inequalities referred to above.
    Perhaps the tories will reintroduce grammar schools
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    (Original post by mummyperson)
    approx 1 in 4 on free school meals who got 3 As got Oxbridge offers. It is not quite enough said because that is only the same odds as many independent school pupils. Whereas students at state schools who receive free school meals have really done fantastically well in terms of self motivation and independent study to get those grades.
    I would like to know if the reason this proportion wasn't higher is because the others applied elsewhere or because Oxford or Cambridge rejected them.
    As far as I know, they mean that out of all students on free school meals who got 3 A's at A-level in 2007 (no matter where they applied) 45 went to oxbridge (got the offer and obviously met it).

    But it could be true that a large percentage of them did apply to oxford or cambridge, but that's not the point.
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    (Original post by mummyperson)
    Perhaps the tories will reintroduce grammar schools
    I really do wish that Gove, instead of bringing in this Free School ****, could have brought back the Grammar school system.

    Free Schools - nice in principle, failed in reality.

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