[Dandaman1]

(Original post by noisy06)
Ever heard of Lenin, Stalin?

That would be an instance where communism was used to control people. Most communist regimes forbid religion because it distracts from one's commitment to the state. It was not atheism itself that was implementing the control or ideologies; rather it was a result.

[Good bloke]

(Original post by noisy06)
Ever heard of Lenin, Stalin?

The communists didn't oppress speople through atheism. They simply recognised that the peasants' religious views were a threat to their communist doctrine and imposed (or tried to impose) atheism on them. The reasoning was, presumably, that a long period of not having religion around would soon remove religious dogma and opinion, and the threat from that quarter. It didn't work and the motivation wasn't atheism, it was communism.

[T-o dore]

(Original post by noisy06)
Ever heard of Lenin, Stalin?

Every heard of communism? Autocracy?

[Hylean]

Getting my mod on: stick to the topic people. Atheism controlling people has no effect on its definition. Take it to PM, VM or make a new thread.

(Original post by Hypocrism)
You're making the same naive logical fallacy as the previous poster, labeling the lack of belief in something as the belief in the lack of something. This is simply not correct. Someone who grew up in a completely secular society, having never heard of religion or atheism, would be labeled an atheist because they do not believe in a deity.

I disagree with this particular redefinition of "atheism", however. It's a debate I've had a few times in here.

Personally, given we don't live in such a society, and so your situation is hypothesis, everyone has to know about a deity in some form. Anyone who calls themselves an atheist, even of the weak variety, is stating "I lack faith in the existence of a deity" which they also reword as "I find the existence of a deity unlikely." This latter wording shows where the belief comes in, as there is a belief that a deity existing is unlikely, ie. the probability is less or equal to 49.9%. Given the lack of evidence, they're making a judgement based on whatever evidence they find convincing and thus are actually involved in an act of faith. Different but analogous to religious faith.

(Original post by Hypocrism)
Also, your above logic is entirely incorrect.

Theism = the belief that at least one deity exists
A- = without
So atheism = without the belief that at least one deity exists

Given you don't know the correct definition of "theism", I'm inclined to distrust you on logic.

(Original post by Hypocrism)
We don't even need to look at the definition of theism to know that you're both completely wrong, since the prefix a- means without. Not lack. By definition therefore an atheist is someone without belief in a deity. You can look at definitions of the word atheist to back this up for yourself if you really feel the need.

Where did I say the prefix meant "a"? I said, quite clearly, it meant "without". Now, given theism is not an umbrella term for belief in a deity, you're working under some highly flawed reasoning. This is why I told you that analysing the words too much causes problems.

Theism- the belief in a personal deity, can be one or more.
Deism- the belief in an impersonal deity, usually one but can be more than one.
Atheism- the lack of belief in a deity/belief there is no deity.

Atheism =/= "without theism", given taking this approach would, as I stated, open atheists up to being deists. A point I've also raised elsewhere in this thread.

And since we are discussing definitions, you might like to see that the dominant meaning of atheism is still "belief there is no deity". Atheists on here would contest that, which is fine. Most of us who've been on this website long enough don't really use it in that meaning anymore, but we do like to keep it in our minds.

(Original post by Hypocrism)
Most self-labeled atheists might carry the belief that there is no god, since if they didn't they may prefer to self-label as agnostic, but at a fundamental level this isn't necessary.

I've no idea what this section is about, to be honest. Agnosticism, currently, is a position on knowledge, not the belief in god. There is the idea that Agnosticism is a comment on stance of belief: ie "one neither believes nor disbelieves", but most on here reject this definition for some reason.

I grew up with the latter, and it would accurately describe your person from your scenario above. But as I say, we don't tend to use it in that meaning on here.

(Original post by Hypocrism)
"In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs." -Sam Harris

As false and misleading a statement as ever there was one, and unbearably common. Also highly arrogant in this iteration, but there we go.

[NJA]

I was watching The Matrix again and suddenly realised:
Atheists believe in the system, they rely on physical scientists to explain everything, they are slaves to thinking on that plane and getting their comforts from there.

Atheism is a big coffin some people live in.

[TimmonaPortella]

(Original post by NJA)
I was watching The Matrix again and suddenly realised:
Atheists believe in the system, they rely on physical scientists to explain everything, they are slaves to thinking on that plane and getting their comforts from there.

Atheism is a big coffin some people live in.

Nothing in atheism denies skepticism of reality; nothing in skepticism requires or justifies theism.

edit: though I accept the real world as I perceive it -- your argument is simply not aimed at the correct group.

[jennaz77]

(Original post by Maker)
Atheism is a religion in the same way not playing chess is a hobby which means I must have millions of hobbies.

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)

Atheism isn't a religion. I don't quite understand where that came from. Also,

Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.
• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.
• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.
• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

[jennaz77]

(Original post by S-man10)
Christians and muslims go around reminding everyone that there are a billion followers of each, and therefore the sheer number of people make the religion automatically true. And then they also need to pray regularly to a God to remind thenselves of him. If that isn't insecurity, i don't know what is

Please don't tell me that's the reason you think Christians and Muslims pray. And with your lack of knowledge of anothers religion, you think you can have a say on their beliefs? Another problem I always find with athiests, always ranting about what you know nothing about.

Of course there are Christians and Muslims who are insecure in their faith. If it was so easy then you wouldn't need faith would you? But athiests exhibit more self doubt than any other religion. No athiest would face death if they were threatened to believe God or die, like many Christians have for example. And if everyone suddenly turned Muslim and athiests didn't have the backing of the media anymore, they would just conform to everyone else around them. A lot of athiests are just athiest because 'that's what most people seem to be doing'.

[garfeeled]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.
• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.
• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.
• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

do you know what evolution is, evolution is not a theory about the begin of life or the universe its a theory that explains what happens afterwards. Also its not undirected. Natural selection directs it.
okay i will answer your questions. self-awarness is chemicals in the brain working together causing us to have the ability to be self aware, conscious is self aware so i just answered your question. There is no sense of universal right and wrong, morals are derived from society,upbringing an our past.
may i ask you why we have self awareness and some other creatures don't why are we so special. Also what and why is the a universal sense of right and wrong because in the past christianity, islam ect have done atrocious things in the name of belief does that mean im more moral than your gods moral law and therefore your god.
lastly atheism isn't a religion like christianity,muslim or buddhism they a have teaching about lifestyle. Christianity has love your neighbour, islam has the five pillars and Buddhism has the eightfold path .atheism has none of that.

[Theflyingbarney]

The main reasons we atheists don't shut up about our 'religion' is because we're constantly pestered to change, more so than any other group. When was the last time you had someone knocking on your door telling you to embrace science before it's too late? Never, I'm guessing, but that's basically the equivalent to what Jehovah's Witnesses do. The fact of the matter is that society, after thousands of years having various deities to worship, can't seem to accept the fact that there may not be any after all.

[jennaz77]

(Original post by Theflyingbarney)
The main reasons we atheists don't shut up about our 'religion' is because we're constantly pestered to change, more so than any other group. When was the last time you had someone knocking on your door telling you to embrace science before it's too late? Never, I'm guessing, but that's basically the equivalent to what Jehovah's Witnesses do. The fact of the matter is that society, after thousands of years having various deities to worship, can't seem to accept the fact that there may not be any after all.

I hope you aren't being serious. You see Jehovah's witnesses as a challenge to your faith in atheism? Christians are ridiculed on a daily basis by the media, their pope has been denounced as shameful, their beliefs gave been pushed down to allow things such as gay marriage, Muslims are constantly associated with terrorism and honour killings. No one has respect for religion in this country yet they still stick by their faith. Look at this thread for example, it's me against everyone. Religious people are pestered to change every second at the risk of losing respect from the whole of society and being made to look like a fool. The only challenge that athiests have to face are the few religious people that speak out every now and then, and they are still insecure.

[IndyAM]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Please don't tell me that's the reason you think Christians and Muslims pray. And with your lack of knowledge of anothers religion, you think you can have a say on their beliefs? Another problem I always find with athiests, always ranting about what you know nothing about.

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.
• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.
• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.
• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

My Irony meter is off the scale!

Are you serious? You've just completely ignored most of the reasons for Atheism, with your completely narrow-minded world-view. To say i am disappointed at your lack of understanding is an understatement.

Also, your atheist-bashing is not particularly 'Christian' of you

[S-man10]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Please don't tell me that's the reason you think Christians and Muslims pray. And with your lack of knowledge of anothers religion, you think you can have a say on their beliefs? Another problem I always find with athiests, always ranting about what you know nothing about.

I'm going to use the same argument against you just with different words.

Please don't tell me thats the reason you think Atheist are insecure and atheists are insecure. And with your lack of knowledge of anothers religion, you think you can have a say on their beliefs, or lack of them? Another problem I always find with Christians, always ranting about what you know nothing about.

See how similar this is?

The follwing argument you gave is quite laughable at best, if you want I could go to dissect every point you made, should you wish?:

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.
• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.
• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.
• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

Of course there are Christians and Muslims who are insecure in their faith. If it was so easy then you wouldn't need faith would you? But athiests exhibit more self doubt than any other religion. No athiest would face death if they were threatened to believe God or die, like many Christians have for example. And if everyone suddenly turned Muslim and athiests didn't have the backing of the media anymore, they would just conform to everyone else around them. A lot of athiests are just athiest because 'that's what most people seem to be doing'.

[Theflyingbarney]

(Original post by jennaz77)
I hope you aren't being serious. You see Jehovah's witnesses as a challenge to your faith in atheism? Christians are ridiculed on a daily basis by the media, their pope has been denounced as shameful, their beliefs gave been pushed down to allow things such as gay marriage, Muslims are constantly associated with terrorism and honour killings. No one has respect for religion in this country yet they still stick by their faith. Look at this thread for example, it's me against everyone. Religious people are pestered to change every second at the risk of losing respect from the whole of society and being made to look like a fool. The only challenge that athiests have to face are the few religious people that speak out every now and then, and they are still insecure.

Well for starters, I think the reason this thread has become you against everyone is because the original point made was one that would clearly provoke atheists into arguing against it. I think it's incredibly far-fetched to say that you being outnumbered is because people don't respect your religion.

And I think the majority of people do have a great respect for religion - while I am not a Christian myself, I do have many friends who are and believe that a number of the ideals and principles on which religion is run are highly beneficial to have in society. The media are always going to be sensationalist; and I thought the whole point of the gay marriage debate was that the Church wasn't backing down?

And I wouldn't say either that religious people are "pestered every second to change or lose the respect of society". Again, it seems to me that people generally respect others' views, with the exception of a small minority. Our society is built on Christian values (I've kind of assumed you live in the UK or USA) and to ignore this would be foolish; but any attempt by atheists to explain scientific evidence to religious people these days tends to be met with dismissive laughter and cries of persecution.

[Maker]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.

One of the main characteristics of a religion is the belief in super natural deity or deities which could be wood spirits or a bearded bloke in the sky. Atheists do not believe in a supernatural deity, only things that can be explained using rational processes.

• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.

Which makes sense. Religions don't make sense because there is no evidence for the existence of a deity to do the things deities are suppose to do like miracles.

• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And
their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.

None of the people you mentioned are prophets, they are people who have created ideas that rational people have found to be useful. The difference is their ideas have been frequently challenged, changed and where appropriate discarded.

• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.
I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

Atheists do not have faith. Faith is an unquestioning acceptance of what it is being taught by other people and are not challenged without being labelled heretics.

The rest of what you have written seems to be inspired by mind changing chemicals.

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

No. What reason is there to be scared of the word religion? I just think you're wrong.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.

Atheism doesn't equal materialism. It's just a position that doesn't believe a god exists. You can be an atheist and believe in Santa Claus if you wanted. Atheists don't have to be empiricists. Though, sampling this website, most claim to be in one way or another.

• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.

Again, atheism has nothing to do with evolution. You can be a theist and hold the opinion that evolution is true (which most respected apologists think - most just reject natural evolution since that'd make god useless)

Furthermore, your statement about everything being explained by evolution is just stupid. It only deals with the complexity of life and how its evolved. Not why I hate call of duty or something like that.

• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.

it is a joke. Because everything there is garbage. They aren't messiahs or prophets. They were just people who were atheists. I'm not sure how you made that link. There's no message in 'atheism' so I'm really not sure where you're getting this from.

• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

evolution doesn't deal with the universe. Just the complexity and development of life. And again... atheism doesn't answer moral questions. Or scientific ones like the consciousness ones. Just the lack of believe in a god or the belief there is no god. I can't find the faith issue. Nor do I understand the relevance of your latter questions.

I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

You sound a lot like ray comfort or Kent hovind. Maybe you're a mixture of both.

[T-o dore]

(Original post by jennaz77)
Atheism IS a religion. It's just that athiests are so scared of the word religion they don't want to accept. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshipped.

• Athiests have their own worldview like those of other religions. They interpret all data ONLY within the very narrow worldview of materialism.
• Athiests have their own orthodoxy. Just as there are orthodox Christian beliefs, there is an atheist orthodoxy as well. In brief, it is that EVERYTHING can be explained as the product of unintentional, undirected, purposeless evolution.
• Athiests have prophets such Nietzsche, Russell, Feuerbach, Lenin, Marx. And their messiah is charles darwin. You may see that as a joke because I used the words prophet and messiah and athiests don't like words like that, but the way athiests treat the words of these people is similar to how Christians and Muslims take to Jesus or Mohammed.
• Athiests have faith. Theirs is a faith-based enterprise. The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.

I don't see how having the beliefs of an athiest is different to having beliefs of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist whatever. Your beliefs will always affect your lifestyle. It's all religion.

Hey Jennaz77,

I've taken the time to read and respond, please do me the same courtesy.

You might be confusing the issue of belief with the issue of knowledge. I can't PROVE/KNOW either way that a dancing leprechaun is orbiting mars. I am agnostic for the dancing leprechaun. But I don't have any good reason to BELIEVE that the dancing leprechaun exists. I am an atheist for the leprechaun, a leprechaun-denier, if you will.

Faith is required to fill a lack of evidence for something. It is blind. Atheists do not claim there is definitely no god, they just don't have a good reason to believe there is one. Atheism is a lack of belief. LACK.

Crucially, atheism is disconnected to what I think and believe about other matters.

There are intractable differences between thinkers such as Marx, Nietzsche, and Russell. How could one consistent body of thought be created out of such variation (even if I allow your ludicrous assertion that they are 'prophets' of atheism)? The atheism shared by certain political theorists, polemicists, and philosophers does not bind them together in any meaningful sense. Surely this tells you something about atheism? Namely that it does not 'contain' any doctrine.

You say atheists treat these thinkers' words similarly to a Muslim would treat their prophet's words. I know Nietzsche thought very highly of himself, but please direct me to these strange people who take his words - or Feuerbach, or Marx, etc - as 'gospel' truth? Each of these thinkers (perhaps exempting Russell, who was always very rigorous and logically consistent) has been thoroughly critiqued and either discarded completely or revised and reworked to be applied to various academic disciplines. Could revision or critique happen to the words of Muhammad?

The 'unexplained' things of our world are intriguing and exciting. As an atheist, I love thinking about these problems logically, applying the evidence I can think of to try and answer them. I am not a scientist, so I don't know if some of these questions already have adequate answers. But I do know that scientists strive to tackle issues such as 'consciousness' and the appearance of 'order' in the universe. Consciousness has been approached recently from philosophers and evolutionary theorists (see Daniel Dennett). What is totally unhelpful is looking at these problems and puzzles and say 'God must be responsible'. That is simply a non-explanation. It doesn't help us understand anything, and certainly is a hypothesis without any supporting evidence.

I hope I've answered some of your points.

[Hylean]

(Original post by T-o dore)
Faith is required to fill a lack of evidence for something. It is blind. Atheists do not claim there is definitely no god, they just don't have a good reason to believe there is one. Atheism is a lack of belief. LACK.

I really don't get this. Do many atheists not know their own standpoint or are they being deliberately disingenuous?

Atheists, many of them, do claim "there is definitely no god". They're called strong or positive atheists. It's right there at the start of this thread. Atheism is not just "a lack of belief".

And faith is not blind. Hence why we call a certain kind of faith "blind faith". The "blind" aspect is not implied by the word "faith". A subtle fact that many atheists on this thread seem to forget. I have faith in a doctor I've just met, for instance.

[Good bloke]

(Original post by Hylean)
And faith is not blind. Hence why we call a certain kind of faith "blind faith". The "blind" aspect is not implied by the word "faith". A subtle fact that many atheists on this thread seem to forget. I have faith in a doctor I've just met, for instance.

True. When backed up with credible supporting evidence faith may be justified. It would be justifiable to have faith in the scientific process, for instance, or faith in a friend's honesty, based on past experience. But it wouldn't be justifiable to have faith in a book of outlandish claims written by an unknown author in unknown circumstances thousands of years ago. That would be blind faith.

I really don't get this. Do many atheists not know their own standpoint or are they being deliberately disingenuous?

You should do by now as it has been explained to you plenty of times.

[Hylean]

(Original post by Good bloke)
True. When backed up with credible supporting evidence faith may be justified. It would be justifiable to have faith in the scientific process, for instance, or faith in a friend's honesty, based on past experience. But it wouldn't be justifiable to have faith in a book of outlandish claims written by an unknown author in unknown circumstances thousands of years ago. That would be blind faith.

Not necessarily, because many theists and deists back their beliefs up with what they consider evidence, so to them, it's not blind faith.

(Original post by Good bloke)
You should do by now as it has been explained to you plenty of times.

No, that argument was on something different: on whether or not atheism is an active position and then later whether the "I don't know whether god exists or not" can be considered atheists. The fact that so many atheists come on here and ignore positive/strong atheism hasn't. It's even funnier when a quick look through "Does God Exist" and the Atheist Soc show many strong atheists popping in, so it's not like they live in obscurity. So either many atheists don't know their own standpoint or are seeking to hide this fact by pretending it doesn't exist... Either way, it's not a good thing.