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The Definitional Thread

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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    Oh, I must have been mistaken then, perhaps i mishear Atheists when I hear the words "there is no god", perhaps I'm not seeing well when I read them on people's sigs. Get a brain cell dufus, I'm not here to name average joes that you probably don't even know, Atheists I know have all said there is no god, are you telling me they are not atheists? Keep your mouth shut. The masses don't follow your theoretical crap.
    I think if you bothered to inquire a little bit further when someone tells you that they believe there is no god I am confident that you will realise that it is a lack of belief in the existence of a god then a positive belief that there is no god.

    Of course a lot of atheists, if asked, will just say, 'I don't believe in god'. It is a simple, quick answer that you give. Hell, I would say the same if I was at, for example, a party if someone asked me whether I believe in a god; however, if this grew into a debate then you will realise that it is a lot more subtle.
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    (Original post by Munchies-YumYum)
    I think what slaw is trying to say is: They do. Why else would richard dawkins make a huge compaign with the slogan "There's Probably No God!". I mean why bother if they think there is PROBABLY no God.
    Well, the atheist bus campaign with the word 'probably' clearly shows that they don't.

    (Original post by Munchies-YumYum)
    even more ignorant and a bigot than he already is
    How is he ignorant and a bigot?

    (Original post by Munchies-YumYum)
    and that the audience was laughing when the muslim guy said 1 is really not rocket science to me.
    They laughed because he showed himself to be a hypocrite.
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    Your arguments above belong in the definition thread. Atheism is to lack belief in God however some atheist claim that god doesn't exist . There are both negative and positive atheist, now stop arguing your both right.
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    (Original post by Taper)
    I think if you bothered to inquire a little bit further when someone tells you that they believe there is no god I am confident that you will realise that it is a lack of belief in the existence of a god then a positive belief that there is no god.

    Of course a lot of atheists, if asked, will just say, 'I don't believe in god'. It is a simple, quick answer that you give. Hell, I would say the same if I was at, for example, a party if someone asked me whether I believe in a god; however, if this grew into a debate then you will realise that it is a lot more subtle.
    I'm afraid he does have a point. Most reasonable atheists would not say "God does not exist," however a growing minority (well as atheism grows you'll get more retards too, sheep will follow the crowd) who claim "Bwahha there is NO God."
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    (Original post by Taper)
    Well, the atheist bus campaign with the word 'probably' clearly shows that they don't.

    How is he ignorant and a bigot?

    They laughed because he showed himself to be a hypocrite.
    They laughed because he has trust in himself. They laughed because he has passion. They laughed because he has hope.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Your arguments above belong in the definition thread. Atheism is to lack belief in God however some atheist claim that god doesn't exist . There are both negative and positive atheist, now stop arguing your both right.
    How many atheists are there out there who unequally do not believe in the existence of a god?

    Also, what further complicates this issue is - what do we mean when we say 'god'? The certainty with which I say whether 'god' exists or not will also depends on the god in question, tbh.
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    (Original post by Taper)
    I think if you bothered to inquire a little bit further when someone tells you that they believe there is no god I am confident that you will realise that it is a lack of belief in the existence of a god then a positive belief that there is no god.
    This is nothing but speculation. A person could just as easily have said what you said, the fact that people don't bother to say that compels us to accept their statements at face value. And plus the very fact that people say "there is no god" is in and of itself a contradiction to your bold testimony that Atheists do not say "there is no god". Isn't it now?
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    Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. – Don Hirschberg
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    (Original post by Taper)
    How many atheists are there out there who unequally do not believe in the existence of a god?

    Also, what further complicates this issue is - what do we mean when we say 'god'? The certainty with which I say whether 'god' exists or not will also depends on the god in question, tbh.
    I know about what you know because you told me the other day that I would know it when I knew it, and then I knew it so I knew that I knew, and thus you know that I know what you said I would know.
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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    This is nothing but speculation.
    It is based on evidence.

    (Original post by slawaccess)
    A person could just as easily have said what you said, the fact that people don't bother to say that compels us to accept their statements at face value. And plus the very fact that people say "there is no god" is in and of itself a contradiction to your bold testimony that Atheists do not say "there is no god". Isn't it now?
    You're refusing to see the subtly in the whole thing.

    Also, maybe someone said, 'I don't believe in god', but was referring to the Muslim. This person could still keep the door open to the possibility that another god exists. I would say that I am very confident, though not absolutely certain, that he Muslim god does not exist*, but I am much more relaxed about the possibility that some other sort of god exists.

    This is the point - it is a complicated matter.

    *I say that because of the conflicts with science, issues to do with morality, the stuff that doesn't make sense and et cetera.
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    (Original post by Taper)
    You're refusing to see the subtly in the whole thing.
    So? All I care about is the fact that you are wrong in your initial claim. People need to be made aware of that.
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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    So? All I care about is the fact that you are wrong in your initial claim. People need to be made aware of that.
    No, I am not wrong in my initial claim, and you have provided no evidence in support of your claim that my claim was wrong.
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    (Original post by Taper)
    No, I am not wrong in my initial claim, and you have provided no evidence in support of your claim that my claim was wrong.
    So you're saying I'm lying when I'm providing anecdotal evidence. Piss poor.
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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    So you're saying I'm lying when I'm providing anecdotal evidence. Piss poor.
    I didn't say you were lying. I just said you didn't provide evidence.
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    (Original post by Taper)
    I didn't say you were lying. I just said you didn't provide evidence.
    You want names? Even more pathetic. What a p****
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    A passive search shows this, it's common knowledge.
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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    A passive search shows this, it's common knowledge.
    I think you firstly, must avoid taking your answers from a website called Answers.com, it is not research nor is it objective nor sensible because people paste their opinions on here on such a matter. It does not represent a large proportion of people. It is not evidence to your point.

    To be objective here, I think you need to clarify your understanding of atheism, the same way you ask people to clarify their understanding of Islam or theism. There is not 1 theism is there? Hence, I do not see why you're trying to insist there is 1 atheism. There is not 1 Islamic belief system is there? No, So I do not see why again you insist there is 1 branch of atheism nor why you prescribe the mentality when you are not atheist yourself.

    Anyway, there are largely two differences;
    1) Positive Atheism - Which actively and positively denies atheism, saying "There is no God whatsoever and I am sure"
    2) Negative Atheism - Which asserts they have no evidence for/ reasoning to believe in God or religion, thus say "I accept the logical possibility of God and the idea being valid as a possibility, however I see no appeal or reason, or evidence to believe as such".

    Then the Negative atheist strand breaks down into agnostics who will claim "I am not sure about a belief in God, I perhaps can accept the idea but am unsure about the belief/religion/message or whilst I see the appeal I do not see how to believe". There is a difference here between the Agnostic and the Negative atheist, the Negative Atheist will consider belief in God as a viable option due to appeal/evidence/reasoning whereas the Agnostic may be inclined to choose but is hesitant. As the poster above said, it is a subtle but clear difference. You must pick up such things to stop making definitional errors.
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    (Original post by Facticity)
    Hence, I do not see why you're trying to insist there is 1 atheism.
    Could you kindly quote where I have stated there is 1 atheism, if you are able. I simply stated that many Atheists have said and do say "there is no god", I don't think this should be up for a debate.
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    (Original post by slawaccess23)
    Could you kindly quote where I have stated there is 1 atheism, if you are able. I simply stated that many Atheists have said and do say "there is no god", I don't think this should be up for a debate.
    Mr reason for talking about 1 system of atheism, is that you are generalising the definition as such. That is where you are wrong, as I explained above. If you cannot see why, I urge you re-read the comment. One does not have to say "there is no God", one can concede "I see no reason/evidence for God" thus, to them God is logically possible but for them they don't believe. What you're saying is that they all deny God. There is a subtle but clear difference. For the sake of debate and being correct, you may want to take that into account.
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    (Original post by Facticity)
    Mr reason for talking about 1 system of atheism, is that you are generalising the definition as such. That is where you are wrong, as I explained above. If you cannot see why, I urge you re-read the comment. One does not have to say "there is no God", one can concede "I see no reason/evidence for God" thus, to them God is logically possible but for them they don't believe. What you're saying is that they all deny God. There is a subtle but clear difference. For the sake of debate and being correct, you may want to take that into account.
    I understand what you're saying, but the initial testimony stands, and it is that atheists do not say that "there is no god", but I'm saying they do. It's as simple as that, I'm not here to prove a wider point, I'm here to simply state that Atheists do simply say "there is no god" so for a person to reject this I find absurd.

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