[SparksInTheSky]

(Original post by anttooking)
Is there anyone who has this viewpoint. I have come to the decision that EVAN if god gave unquestionable proof of his existance! I would not worship him.

No, but that is one of the various reasons why I am not religious. I think that if God was perfect he wouldn't want to be worshipped.

[RK]

(Original post by Steevee)
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name and all that Jazz?

Done it before, nothing changed. No enlightenment.

And wht need is there to confess? When God knows all?

Because it opens your heart to God and let's Him in to your life. He wants to be in your life, but you have to let Him in. You have to want it.

From your other post you seem to have some belief, at times, in the existence of God but are unsure/hesitant.

Why not simply ask God to reveal himself to you, pray to him asking for him to show himself to you and enter in to your life and show you what it means to know him. Do this and really mean it and want it to happen and who knows

It's worth trying isn't it. The worst that could happen is that nothing changes

[anttooking]

(Original post by RK)
The answers to all the questions are either 'yes' or 'not applicable' - because do limit God with any of those laws of physics is to put the contraints of the universe on God.

We cannot do this because God is more powerful than we can even imagine and also because God is beyond the universe and more than it. He created it and can fully interact in it in any way he wants. He is not limited to the laws of physics like we are.

We would be totally underestimating God to put such limits on him and bringing him down more to our level, which, as sinful humans we tend to do (or do the opposite of elevating ourselves up to the level of God), but which we can't do.

That is perhaps a valid assumption. However, I put forward that he cannot therfore interact with our universe without changing it fundamentally. Such a change would be noticed.

And I come back to mathematics, God is not greater than mathematics he must be infact bound by it. You could say he made the Axioms, but he must play by those laws or he made an inperfect universe; which as an all powerfull being he didn't.

[Patrick Wallace]

This thread is amusing.

Even if God exists I wouldn't worship him because I find him immoral etc etc

Theist: That would be silly because if you knew God existed then you would be choosing to suffer.

Point proven I think.

[anttooking]

(Original post by RK)
=It's worth trying isn't it. The worst that could happen is that nothing changes

Allthough I fundamentally disagree with you. You make a good argument and are perhaps the only christaian who I have talked to who has made a good debate for there beliefs.

God I wish you where an athiest

[anttooking]

(Original post by Patrick Wallace)
This thread is amusing.

Even if God exists I wouldn't worship him because I find him immoral etc etc

Theist: That would be silly because if you knew God existed then you would be choosing to suffer.

Point proven I think.

Proves only that the two views are irreconcilable

[NellGwynne]

(Original post by anttooking)
Is there anyone who has this viewpoint. I have come to the decision that EVAN if god gave unquestionable proof of his existance! I would not worship him.

Even? - Not that I'm a spelling Nazi.

Anyway, what has God done for anyone to worship him?

[anttooking]

(Original post by NellGwynne)
Even? - Not that I'm a spelling Nazi.

Anyway, what has God done for anyone to worship him?

He strook down the spelling gestapo last week.

[zxh800]

(Original post by NellGwynne)
Even? - Not that I'm a spelling Nazi.

Anyway, what has God done for anyone to worship him?

Oh I don't know, assuming he exists he probably made the universe and everything in it. As well as the natural laws which hold the universe together and all that jazz. I mean if he does exist and for whatever reason he didn't create us and the universe and stay there on his lonesome. I think we'd be worse off no?

[NellGwynne]

(Original post by zxh800)
Oh I don't know, assuming he exists he probably made the universe and everything in it. As well as the natural laws which hold the universe together and all that jazz. I mean if he does exist and for whatever reason he didn't create us and the universe and stay there on his lonesome. I think we'd be worse off no?

I happen not to really believe in a God. And regardless of him/her creating the universe and so on, it isn't something they should be praised for especially, considering there is no more proof for it to be have been created by a God.

I suppose it's understandable as to why people would see that as a reason to worship or whatever, but I would have purely thought that to worship on an entire scale surely it should also depend upon how this 'God' has acted upon the universe since it's creation. It's all well and done say; 'well, he sent Jesus to give the word and the will...' blah, but then we could easily say look at the havoc and mayhem in the world and the lack of 'God's' doing about it. Surely he can't be commended for that?

Then again, this leads back to the same ol' 'Problem of Evil' debate as well as 'the nature of God'.

But in my view, if there is a God, people should think rationally about why they are praising him.

[Retrospect]

Worship is about putting aside all of your pride, your ego and your vanity. It is also about acknowledging the limits of your power and of your knowledge. It is about saying things and performing actions for God, submitting to Him alone. Worship is not only about ritual prayer.

-----

As a matter of fact Islam does not attach much value to mere rituals when they are performed mechanically and have no influence on one's inner life. The Holy Qur'an addresses the Believers and their neighbours from among the People of the Book who were arguing with them about the change of the direction of Qibla in the following verse:

"It is not righteousness that you turn your faces toward the East or the West, but righteous is he who believes in Allah and the Last Day and the Angels and the Book and the Prophets, and gives his beloved money to his relatives and the orphans and the needy and for the ransoming of captives and who observes prayer and pays the poor-due; and those who fulfill their promises when they have made one, and the patient in poverty and affliction and the steadfast in time of war; it is those who have proved truthful and it is those who are the God-fearing." (The Holy Qur'an 2:177)

Decent work is considered in Islam as a type of worship. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever finds himself at the nightfall tired of his work, Allah (God Almighty) will forgive him his sins."

Seeking knowledge is one of the highest types of worship. The Prophet told his companions that "seeking knowledge is a (religious) duty on every Muslim." In another Hadeeth, he said: "Seeking knowledge for one hour is better than praying for seventy years." Social courtesy and co-operation are part of worship when done for the sake of Allah (God Almighty) as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) told us: "Receiving your friend with a smile is a type of charity, helping a person to load his animal is a charity, and, putting, some water in your neighbour's bucket is a charity."

http://www.directory-oman.com/islam/conctwor.htm

[anonnumber6]

(Original post by RK)
Hehe

Though isn't there a theorem which means that any mathematical system will always be based upon at least one assumption somewhere? So to get to root 2 being irrational the system which allows you define what it means to be irrational and even what root 2 is would have an assumption, or something you define as being true without being able to prove, made in it somewhere.

Though really, what is root 2 other than a human invention to describe something in a God created world

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

[yawn]

(Original post by Retrospect)
Worship is about putting aside all of your pride, your ego and your vanity. It is also about acknowledging the limits of your power and of your knowledge. It is about saying things and performing actions for God, submitting to Him alone. Worship is not only about ritual prayer.

And that is what gets to some people and does not allow them to 'worship' a Being whom they believe exists...pride, ego and vanity.

Pride...one of the deadly sins.

[woejane]

Hypothetically, I always talk as if God exists. I cant say 100% that I do believe that there is a God (of classical theism).

However, if it was proven that God exists, I would refuse to believe in him. for my sake and everyone elses.

Someone once told me that, 'it would be impossible for you to reject him, if he came to you'

But I dont think what God has done can be justified.

- Although I understand that people do worship him, and I'm respectfull for that. I've learnt alot about religion. But personally,

[Retrospect]

(Original post by yawn)
And that is what gets to some people and does not allow them to 'worship' a Being whom they believe exists...pride, ego and vanity.

Yup. I initially added to that post that this is the biggest 'barrier' to worship for human beings.

[lol_modeste77]

Why are people even debating this, you can never convince an atheist that there is a God; and you can never convince a theist that there isn't. End of. If you feel 100% sure that there isn't a God then you'll either end up in eternal devastating pain in hell or you'll be pleasantly surprised by the long nothingness of nothing.

[derangedyoshi]

I believe in a God, but not the God of Christianity. I think that if God is indeed omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, then certain teachings would be different. For example, Catholics believe that gay people are called to chastity. I think that if God wants us to be happy (benevolence) then he would allow anyone who wanted to to enter into a relationship.

I do get a bit annoyed when people refer to God and assume it's God with all the characteristics of the Christian God. I believe in a God because I don't see how the universe could have been made otherwise, but I don't think it cares whether I have sex before marriage.

[Steevee]

(Original post by RK)
Because it opens your heart to God and let's Him in to your life. He wants to be in your life, but you have to let Him in. You have to want it.

From your other post you seem to have some belief, at times, in the existence of God but are unsure/hesitant.

Why not simply ask God to reveal himself to you, pray to him asking for him to show himself to you and enter in to your life and show you what it means to know him. Do this and really mean it and want it to happen and who knows

It's worth trying isn't it. The worst that could happen is that nothing changes

But he's all powerful, he doesn't need to be 'let' to do anything.

Ahh, I've asked. No answer. Religious types tell me this is because I have to have Faith, with seems like a load of rubbish to me. I understand some people have it, but I cannot reconcile it.

To be honest, the only time I wonder if there may be a God is when I think of the start of all things. We don't yet have a decent explantion. But, then I think to myself, noone knew what the Sun was or how it worked just 200 years ago. So, I understand that I do not understand everything, and hope that we will find the ansers, rather than turning to a God that I cannot reconcile with the world.

[x-friends]

Why wouldn't you worship Him if you know He exists?

[Patrick Wallace]

(Original post by x-friends)
Why wouldn't you worship Him if you know He exists?

That my dear is the whole point of the thread.