The Greatest Statesmen of all time

MC armani

14

The greatest political leaders in history.

For me, Bismarck.

FDR

Original post by MC armani

The greatest political leaders in history.

For me, Bismarck.

Napoléon ?

But what is the point of this thread ?

Reply 3

Brandmon

2

Original post by MC armani

The greatest political leaders in history.

For me, Bismarck.

Agreed. Uniting 25 separate states, albeit all sharing their common culture and the unification having a sense of inevitability, is no easy feat and is the single event that shaped the 20th Century as much as the Collapse of the USSR did to the 21st.

Lincoln was also a great Statesman at the time, having kept the USA in once piece.

Also the more liberal leaders of the USSR, namely Kruschev and Gorbachev as premiers and Kosygin as Chairman also deserve an amount of respect as statesmen. In western standards they are hardly "Liberal" but they clearly stood out in a political arena not only filled, but built, for Hard-liners and conservative politicians. They had a good idea of what the USSR needed if it were to win the Cold War. It was a shame that their efforts couldn't possible bear fruit as the problems of the USSR in the latter half of the 20th Century were too deep-rooted and beyond any possibility of fixing.

Original post by LysFromParis

Napoléon ?

But what is the point of this thread ?

Know more about the word Statesman. You will find that it means neither General nor a Politician.

Reply 4

LysFromParis

10

Original post by Brandmon

Know more about the word Statesman. You will find that it means neither General nor a Politician.

Napoléon shaped modern France, we still use most the law code he wrote, still use the administration he set up and still go to the graduate school he set up among many other thing. He was a great influence in continental Europe regarding principle such as meritocracy and civil law. Also he was the first to present the idea of a Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napol%C3%A9on_Ier#Legacy

"My true glory is not to have won 40 battles...Waterloo will erase the memory of so many victories. ... But...what will live forever, is my Civil Code."

You're lack of knowledge about his achievement does not entitle you with the right to be rude.

Reply 5

Brandmon

2

Original post by LysFromParis

Napoléon shaped modern France, we still use most the law code he wrote, still use the administration he set up and still go to the graduate school he set up among many other thing. He was a great influence in continental Europe regarding principle such as meritocracy and civil law. Also he was the first to present the idea of a Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napol%C3%A9on_Ier#Legacy

You're lack of knowledge about his achievement does not entitle you with the right to be rude.

Was I rude? Not agreeing with your opinion does not equate rudeness. If that was the case, god knows why books and media relating to Politics are not found in the "Adults-Only" section along side the equally rude adult materlial.
I intend my opinions with all respect and with no offence towards anyone, so you shouldn't take it the wrong way.

As a Military Leader he was a genius. The fame he gained from the Battle of Austerlitz alone is not at all ill-deserved. And one couldn't doubt his political talent, as becoming an Emperor of such a large country shows his worth in that aspect.

That said as a statesman he was impressive, but didn't stand out that much when compared to others. The Civic Code is indeed very much ahead of its time and influential yet it was hardly Napoleon's work. Rather than the Author, he was the one who pushed most for its implementation, and it had been a step in the right direction.

That said, it was the French Revolution itself that lead to Modern France and even the Civic Code itself. It is to the revolution, not Napoleon, that is credited the term "Liberté, égalité, fraternité".

Also the idea of a Jewish state was hardly something that Napoleon was the first to think up. After all, a Jewish state existed in the past already and since then the need for a Jewish state was always there.

And let us not forget what Napoleon's reign lead to. I don't think I need to state the obvious in that matter.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6

Aj12

18

Original post by LysFromParis

Napoléon shaped modern France, we still use most the law code he wrote, still use the administration he set up and still go to the graduate school he set up among many other thing. He was a great influence in continental Europe regarding principle such as meritocracy and civil law. Also he was the first to present the idea of a Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napol%C3%A9on_Ier#Legacy

You're lack of knowledge about his achievement does not entitle you with the right to be rude.

What an odd thing to say. It makes sense I just would not expect a statesmen to see that as their finest achivement

Reply 7

MC armani

OP

14

Original post by Brandmon

Agreed. Uniting 25 separate states, albeit all sharing their common culture and the unification having a sense of inevitability, is no easy feat and is the single event that shaped the 20th Century as much as the Collapse of the USSR did to the 21st.

The nine years leading up to 1871 do indeed constitute the most unlikely achievement of any leader in the last two centuries. For Bismarck accomplished it without commanding a single soldier, without dominating a vast parliamentary majority, without the support of a mass movement, without any previous experience of government, without the charisma of a great orator and in the face of national revulsion at his name and reputation.

But I think there was another dimension to Bismarck's greatness, aside from his achievement. It was Bismarck's ability to instantly comprehend the momentousness of a situation and summarise its probable repercussions in just a few precise words. This ability, as a statesman, raises him above any other.

I recall that he said this in the presence of Disraeli at the Russian ambassador's residence in London:

"I shall soon be compelled to undertake the conduct of the Prussian Government. My first care will be to reorganise the army, with or without the help of the Prussian Parliament. As soon as the army shall have been brought into such a condition as to inspire respect, I shall seize the first best pretext to declare war against Austria, dissolve the German diet, subdue the minor states, and give national unity to Germany under Prussian leadership"

I can think of no other statesman that would have had the audacity or resolution to make these sort of claims, nor one who could fathom the largeness of his ideas. And as Disraeli said at the time "Take care of that man; he means what he says". He was truly the man of blood and iron, but what must have been the genius which so overcame the flaws of heart and mind that its possessor not only owned a continent, but won the love and homage of millions?

The politicians of today pale in comparison. Could you imagine Cameron or Brown having the far-sightedness or intent to make such a speech? Nowadays the English temper has abated to such an extent that it is conditioned only to effect tax rises and spending cuts. And that is the fullest extent of statesmanship today.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 8

Zen1

1

In my opinion, Bismarck, Atlee and Stresemann.

Reply 9

Chuck99

If we use the improvement of standard of living, safety, education, income per capita, racial harmony, life expectancy as criteria, Lee Kuan-Yew is almost certainly the greatest politician in human history. He set a great example of meritocracy superior to traditional democracy.

Reply 10

driftawaay

3

hitler

jk

:awesome:

William III.

Original post by Zen1

In my opinion, Bismarck, Atlee and Stresemann.

Attlee just no. In Britain we don't have statesmen, things just happen.

Nick Clegg.

I'd go for whoever saw the greatest Imperial expansion. In a world in which you rule or are ruled, they chose to rule.

Reply 15

Davij038

13

Original post by Rakas21

I'd go for whoever saw the greatest Imperial expansion. In a world in which you rule or are ruled, they chose to rule.

That'd be Napolean probably.

Napolean, FDR, Churchill, Gandhi, areall decent contenders

I'd probably say Charlemagne.

Reply 16

The Marshall

11

Darius the Great and Xerxes of Persia, Cyrus the II great of Persia.
Shapur the II, and Emperor Qin Shi Huang.
Zhuge Liang - one of the greatest Chinese statesmen in Chinese history.
Emperor Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty,
Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Iseayu.
Augustus, Imperator of the Roman Empire.
There are some really good Roman Emperors but I can't remember their names.
Ashoka the Emperor.
Chandraputga.
Khosrau II - the second of the Sassaind Empire to make it reach to its largest extent.
Elizabeth the II of England.
Tang Taizong - Li Shimin of the Tang Dynasty.
Napoleon - probably one of the greatest French leaders in the history of all France.