The Student Room Group

Oxford Physics and Philosophy Students and Applicants

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Reply 40
Original post by Eternico
Well, that's it: The matura doesn't let you take specific subjects: you just get a general instruction, that's why it's so recognized. Anyway it would be 5/6, 'cause 6 is the highest reachable mark.


Hmm I suppose you just need a 5 then.

There's quite a lot of qualifications under Switzerland, so perhaps the 'in each subject' referred to another qualification?

As I said, definitely email and ask. They are there to help.
Reply 41
There's not much I can add to Bezzler's advice and comments. A friend of mine has just finished his first year doing PhysPhil and seems to be enjoying it.

shamrock92
..
Reply 42
Thanks, enough admissions for now, I'll email them and they'll tell me -- no reason for posting here pointless if I only have to mail :wink:

So, is there anyone who actually does the PhysPhil course? What's your impression of it? Poppyxx, you said: "My friend is doing Physics and Philosophy and he loves it... " Is there a way to contact him?
Original post by Eternico
Thanks, enough admissions for now, I'll email them and they'll tell me -- no reason for posting here pointless if I only have to mail :wink:

So, is there anyone who actually does the PhysPhil course? What's your impression of it? Poppyxx, you said: "My friend is doing Physics and Philosophy and he loves it... " Is there a way to contact him?


Yes, I did it. You can read my cursory evaluation of the course in this thread and others.

Points to note:

1. There's more physics than philosophy. At least for the first three years (the final year is comprised of electives).
2. It's not two full degrees all in four years' time. Inevitably you will lose out on a broad general knowledge within each field.
3. If you want to do doctoral work in philosophy make sure you mean philosophy of physics (this is really what this course is all about).
4. No, it is not easy to find work afterwards. Even if you succeed academically.
5. Yes, the course is interesting. But in the current financial climate I would be cautious of using this fact as a determining factor.
I've only had one year's experience, it's alright, there's a lot of bull**** involved but then... you get to miss out labs, circuits, optics and other painful things. Overall I wouldn't say it's harder than straight physics, but straight physics is pretty ****ing hard itself, harder than the vasty majority of subjects

One thing I would say- almost ALL the philosophy you do is philosophy of science until later on in the degree, and even then there's quite a lot of it compulsory
Reply 45
Original post by shamrock92
I've only had one year's experience, it's alright, there's a lot of bull**** involved but then... you get to miss out labs, circuits, optics and other painful things. Overall I wouldn't say it's harder than straight physics, but straight physics is pretty ****ing hard itself, harder than the vasty majority of subjects

One thing I would say- almost ALL the philosophy you do is philosophy of science until later on in the degree, and even then there's quite a lot of it compulsory


Well you do elements of deductive logic and general philosophy in first year, and knowledge and reality in second year. I don't know exactly how other options work, but there is other philosophy.
Reply 46
So, you'd say: Oxford for continental philosophy = no no?
Reply 47
Original post by Eternico
So, you'd say: Oxford for continental philosophy = no no?


There's nothing on the first year course, then for finals you can do one paper which covers two continental philosophers of your choice. There's also a Kant paper if you count that...
Reply 48
Original post by tuesday91

Hi, what are the options for philosophy like on the physics and philosophy course at Oxford? I know the emphasis is on metaphysics and the philosophy of science but I am also interested in ethics and political philosophy. Would the course allow for me to study those topics without hindering the amount of physics that I would study? Would I potentially be able to have enough physics knowledge to go on to a postgrad degree in physics and have enough philosophy knowledge to go on to research say ethics or political philosophy? (clearly I would have to choose between the two after the degree) or would that not be viable?
Reply 49
Hi, what are the options for philosophy like on the physics and philosophy course at Oxford? I know the emphasis is on metaphysics and the philosophy of science but I am also interested in ethics and political philosophy. Would the course allow for me to study those topics without hindering the amount of physics that I would study? Would I potentially be able to have enough physics knowledge to go on to a postgrad degree in physics and have enough philosophy knowledge to go on to research say ethics or political philosophy? (clearly I would have to choose between the two after the degree) or would that not be viable?
Original post by Bax-man
You are not permitted to omit certificated GCSE results from your UCAS application.



gosh, i'm amazed. and i thought we were in a fee country. in the section on interests do you think one day they'll force people to admit to having once had an interest in morris dancing!?
Reply 51
Original post by dtf100dtf
Hi, what are the options for philosophy like on the physics and philosophy course at Oxford? I know the emphasis is on metaphysics and the philosophy of science but I am also interested in ethics and political philosophy. Would the course allow for me to study those topics without hindering the amount of physics that I would study? Would I potentially be able to have enough physics knowledge to go on to a postgrad degree in physics and have enough philosophy knowledge to go on to research say ethics or political philosophy? (clearly I would have to choose between the two after the degree) or would that not be viable?


You're right that the emphasis is mostly on what you described, though there is still room for option later on in the degree. You don't get any choice in the first year, that involves quite heavy amounts of logic, then also introduction to philosophy which involves general philosophy (brief overview of topics in metaphysics and epistemology) and a study of the Leibniz-Clarke correspondence which is philosophy of physics.

In second year there are no philosophy exams, although you start studying for the ones in third year. It is compulsary to take a philosophy of science paper and intermediate philosophy of physics, so this makes things quite science-heavy. You also have a compulsary unit in which you must decide between a more text-based approach (history of philosophy from Descartes to Kant), or a more analytic approach (Knowledge and Reality). In your third year you can study a free option of anything you want (including ethics) but this is a choice between doing that and physics papers (I am waiting to eagerly to be able to be done with physics!).

Fourth year is where you get the real choice though, I think it's 3 papers, and you have complete free choice between physics and philosophy (meaning that you can drop one entirely), so there's your chance to specialise/do the topics you find interesting. You can easily go into postgrad for either subject, although I think if you want to be a physicist they would recommend you specialise in that in your fourth year, just so that you've covered a bit more.

I hope that's helpful!
Reply 52
Original post by Redreynard
gosh, i'm amazed. and i thought we were in a fee country. in the section on interests do you think one day they'll force people to admit to having once had an interest in morris dancing!?


You're entirely free to fail or pass any qualifications you enter. To say that, somehow, being forced to reveal your full academic record to an institution whose entry criteria are based on that record somehow makes you "unfree" is absurd on its face.
Reply 53
Original post by tuesday91

Original post by tuesday91
You're right that the emphasis is mostly on what you described, though there is still room for option later on in the degree. You don't get any choice in the first year, that involves quite heavy amounts of logic, then also introduction to philosophy which involves general philosophy (brief overview of topics in metaphysics and epistemology) and a study of the Leibniz-Clarke correspondence which is philosophy of physics.

In second year there are no philosophy exams, although you start studying for the ones in third year. It is compulsary to take a philosophy of science paper and intermediate philosophy of physics, so this makes things quite science-heavy. You also have a compulsary unit in which you must decide between a more text-based approach (history of philosophy from Descartes to Kant), or a more analytic approach (Knowledge and Reality). In your third year you can study a free option of anything you want (including ethics) but this is a choice between doing that and physics papers (I am waiting to eagerly to be able to be done with physics!).

Fourth year is where you get the real choice though, I think it's 3 papers, and you have complete free choice between physics and philosophy (meaning that you can drop one entirely), so there's your chance to specialise/do the topics you find interesting. You can easily go into postgrad for either subject, although I think if you want to be a physicist they would recommend you specialise in that in your fourth year, just so that you've covered a bit more.

I hope that's helpful!


Yes thats very helpful thankyou :smile:
I think I will apply for P&P :smile:
Original post by Bax-man
You're entirely free to fail or pass any qualifications you enter. To say that, somehow, being forced to reveal your full academic record to an institution whose entry criteria are based on that record somehow makes you "unfree" is absurd on its face.



i don't think so. surely the important thing is that you satisfy the criteria, that is if they ask for A and B, you deliver A and B.
what i object to is them wanting to bar you for having also done C. why should your failings be important. when the guy wins the olympic gold medal, the fact he might have done rubbish at the egg and spoon race when he was at primary school is of no importance.
I'd disagree with what some have said here. I took chemistry at A-level and a few things I covered there definitely came in handy when I did physics at university. I would choose chemistry over english, without hesitation.
Reply 56
Original post by dtf100dtf
Would I potentially be able to have enough physics knowledge to go on to a postgrad degree in physics


I’m a straight Physicist. I don’t really have any concrete knowledge about this, but I’d imagine it’s something you definitely need to look in to if you think you might want to do postgrad work.

My *guess* would be that you’d have trouble getting accepted for a Physics PhD. For a start, the PhysPhils get near enough no lab experience. They don’t even do any programming. I’d say that puts them at a definite disadvantage compared to straight physicists. (True, in the 4th year you do have the option to do an extended project like the straight Physics people, which is better than nothing, and gives an opportunity for some lab/computer time. But even for those, you’re probably not going to be most supervisors’ first choice over a straight Physicist. Besides which, it’s quite possible you’ll want to be applying for PhD’s *before* you do the project, which is just before Easter.)

Also, there’s going to be chunks of physics you miss out on. No optics (which is important for a lot of lab work), and limited electromagnetism. And you’ll basically have less opportunity to specialise than the other physicists. Eg. I don’t think you get the chance to do the short option courses that the straight Physicists do in the first 3 years. And while the straight physicists do all 6 main modules in the 3rd year, you won’t be able to do more than 4 of them, if I understand correctly. And the choice you make there hugely impacts what choices you can make in your 4th year. So if you don’t do Condensed Matter Physics in the 3rd year, that cuts off (I assume) the 4th year Condensed Matter Physics course. (CMP is, incidentally, the biggest single are of Physics research.)

An important point in the above is that you have to have an idea pretty early on what you want to specialise in. At the beginning of your 3h year, I believe you have to choose between majoring in Physics or Philosophy. You can’t keep your options open for more than a few years, as it were.

I’ve just looked on the Physics and Philosophy webpage, and it says 40% go on to do a higher degree. Which sounds pretty good actually, so maybe I’m totally wrong. (But I guess it’s not clear how much of those are Physics degrees, compared to Law conversion courses, or whatever.)
Reply 57
Original post by Redreynard
i don't think so. surely the important thing is that you satisfy the criteria, that is if they ask for A and B, you deliver A and B.
what i object to is them wanting to bar you for having also done C. why should your failings be important. when the guy wins the olympic gold medal, the fact he might have done rubbish at the egg and spoon race when he was at primary school is of no importance.


In general universities are looking for more than people who have simply ticked a number of boxes (satisfied the criteria, as you call it). Instead they seek those who have a demonstrated history of academic attainment at a certain level, of which performance in examination is an important indicator. Therefore, where a candidate has done less well is just as important as where a candidate has done well - both of these are relevant. Ergo, your analogy is flawed - running an egg and spoon race badly has nothing to do with one's aptitude for the Olympic 100m sprint. Underperforming in an academic qualification has much to do with academic suitability.
Reply 58
Just a heads up for anyone interested:

I heard over breakfast today that the Physics & Philosophy course is NO LONGER accredited by the Institute of Physics.

( You can check the list of accredited courses here, at the bottom of the page:
http://www.iop.org/education/higher_education/accreditation/page_43310.html )

I'm not sure what the practical consequences of this is, but it's not insignificant. The Institute of Physics is *the* professional organisation for working Physicists.
Reply 59
Original post by TuskSE
Just a heads up for anyone interested:

I heard over breakfast today that the Physics & Philosophy course is NO LONGER accredited by the Institute of Physics.

( You can check the list of accredited courses here, at the bottom of the page:
http://www.iop.org/education/higher_education/accreditation/page_43310.html )

I'm not sure what the practical consequences of this is, but it's not insignificant. The Institute of Physics is *the* professional organisation for working Physicists.


I don't know whether he's right or not but our tutor said this would have minimal impact on jobs afterwards. You can still get onto postgrad, accredited or not, and apparently most employers don't even know or care which courses are accredited. They will still see the words physics and Oxford on your CV, and these are what count.

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