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    Murray to win! :dancing: Then maybe he'll have more confidence for Wimbledon... whoot.
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    (Original post by whisperings)
    Oh look, I really didn't want to get into some silly argument... maybe I haven't been clear enough but I don't have a problem with Murray. I have a problem with how people and the press react to him. I don't dislike Murray himself - he's a very good player who I enjoy watching, and he does deserve to win a slam at some point. But for example on the Radio 4 news tennis is only mentioned if Murray has won. And you're right, it's something that extends to all other players and sports and I can't bear it. Hence why I can't really cheer Murray on.

    I certainly haven't got hatred for other players, what a ridiculous thing to assume! I enjoy the style of some players over others, that's all.

    Oh and in the press interview after Federer's semi-final loss he praised Djokovic and said that the better man won. Think that answers your question a little bit.

    Anyway enough squabbling. May the best man win on Sunday, and if it's Murray I guess I'll hibernate for a while and keep my mouth shut so I don't get shouted at by crazy fans!
    Sorry as far as I was aware it was a debate that perhaps you think has become 'heated'. As for that answerign my question it really doesn't. I'm going to believe you there but very rarely does he lose a match and give credit and sometimese he'll blame injuries. Maybe this time he didn't but it's what I'm used to hearing and will stick to it.

    I wouldn't say 'crazy' fans just fans who actually care.
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    (Original post by JaggySnake95)
    Ok, sorry you said he didn't play great which is just another way of saying he played poorly or there abouts. And you can't say ''give Ferrer more respect'' Not once did I say he played poorly and I'll be the first to admit he played a very good match. But I don't think Murray played as bad as you make out.

    Concentration has absolutely NOTHING to do with who's on the other side of the net. Yes, it can be daunting when certain player's are on the other side of the net.

    ''There was a fair amount of times Murray broke Ferrer but Ferrer did the same to Murray'' only once did Ferrer break to go ahead in a set, every other time it was to get back in the set. And as for the Ferrer 2 set to love being very feasible let's see. Who had the first big chance? Murray went up the first break and had his concentration stayed he would have won that set and same with the second set.

    PS. You also can't write off Andy being 2 sets down. :rolleyes:
    you're making things up now. Yes, I did say he didn't play great. He played OK - badly in periods and excellent in periods. Overall it was a real mixed bag of a performance. You're saying that there was this lack of concentration and I'm arguing that some/alot of this was down to just how well Ferrer was playing at the time. Murray was clearly worried and anxious in the first two sets, you could see it in him, he was visibly and audibly panicked, and Ferrer's standard of play contributed towards this. When you have anxiety and panic, you lose your concentration and focus. This is clearly what happened with Murray. Thankfully he was very clinical and really took the initiative in the 2nd set tie-break and his performance went up a level or two thereafter...Murray was breathing very heavily in the first two sets, he was far from composed or relaxed on court. He made quite a few sloppy unforced errors but he was also being outplayed at times, with Ferrer dictating rallies and looking more in control and more controlled and measured in his approach. Whilst watching I'm sure you were well aware of how heavy Murray's breathing was in the opening two sets...got to pay Ferrer huge credit for contributing towards that state of high anxiety and breathlessness.

    doesn't matter when Ferrer broke. Fact is, he did and he did so several times and sometimes with seemingly considerable ease. It felt inevitable that Murray, once he broke when he did, that he would end up being broken straight back.

    What other players are doing can get into your head and impact upon your own concentration and own standard of play. It happens and it happened today with Murray. IMO.

    Was it you who negged? If so, grow up. Negged for having an opinion :rolleyes:
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    Did you see Murray's body language in sets 1 & 2? He was really battling his emotions on court, particularly in these two sets. Swearing, talking to himself frustrated, punching his forehand in anger/frustration, giving his nuckles a bit of a beating up with his racket strings...throwing his two Head rackets to one side when sitting down during one of the breaks...

    have you forgotton about all of this? The lad looked tormented out there today, particularly in set 1 and 2.

    If he'd lost that 2nd set, it would have been highly highly unlikely that Murray would have won the next 3 straights. Ferrer was the more composed, assured player in the opening two sets.

    Sure, there was a chance Murray could get back into it, even if he were to have lost that 2nd set. However his on-court body language was down and hardly upbeat in those first two sets and had he lost the 2nd set, and it would have been painfully so on a tie-break, then there would be a very real possibility that his body language and attitude, and standard of play, could really have taken a nose-dive.

    I'm a big fan of Murray and agree with Economist in saying that Murray JUST about did the job today. Not a convincing performance. Great in spells, good in spells, poor in spells and piss-poor in spells. Covered the whole spectrum tbh.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    you're making things up now. Yes, I did say he didn't play great. He played OK - badly in periods and excellent in periods. Overall it was a real mixed bag of a performance. You're saying that there was this lack of concentration and I'm arguing that some/alot of this was down to just how well Ferrer was playing at the time. Murray was clearly worried and anxious in the first two sets, you could see it in him, he was visibly and audibly panicked, and Ferrer's standard of play contributed towards this. When you have anxiety and panic, you lose your concentration and focus. This is clearly what happened with Murray. Thankfully he was very clinical and really took the initiative in the 2nd set tie-break and his performance went up a level or two thereafter...Murray was breathing very heavily in the first two sets, he was far from composed or relaxed on court. He made quite a few sloppy unforced errors but he was also being outplayed at times, with Ferrer dictating rallies and looking more in control and more controlled and measured in his approach. Whilst watching I'm sure you were well aware of how heavy Murray's breathing was in the opening two sets...got to pay Ferrer huge credit for contributing towards that state of high anxiety and breathlessness.

    doesn't matter when Ferrer broke. Fact is, he did and he did so several times and sometimes with seemingly considerable ease. It felt inevitable that Murray, once he broke when he did, that he would end up being broken straight back.

    What other players are doing can get into your head and impact upon your own concentration and own standard of play. It happens and it happened today with Murray. IMO.

    Was it you who negged? If so, grow up. Negged for having an opinion :rolleyes:
    ''Was it you who negged? If so, grow up. Negged for having an opinion :'' ... ''you're making things up now.''

    Unlucky.

    The reason I brought up Ferrer breaking Murray back rather than going ahead was in response to you saying something about Ferrer 'doing the same to Murray', but it was in actual fact completely different. Sure what other people do affects you but if you're concentrated which he should have been then you won't get affected, if you are affected then your not concentrating.

    You've pretty much gone from didn't play great to he played badly in patches and good in patches, which is what I was saying all along. If your going to have an opinion atleast don't change your opinion halfway through.

    Look:

    Ferrer played well consistently throughout. I wouldn't say he dipped significantly at all in the match.

    Murray played poor at times and it was at those times Ferrer took advantage. But when Murray played well Ferrer didn't have the answer often enough.

    And of course Andy is bound to be anxious, anyone with taht much pressure on ther shoulders playing in a tournament where they have a very favourable draw to win their first Grand Slam would be nervous. He's done a lot better than Tim or Greg ever did at dealing with pressure.

    Anyway, final is pretty open.
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    (Original post by JaggySnake95)
    ''Was it you who negged? If so, grow up. Negged for having an opinion :'' ... ''you're making things up now.''

    Unlucky.

    The reason I brought up Ferrer breaking Murray back rather than going ahead was in response to you saying something about Ferrer 'doing the same to Murray', but it was in actual fact completely different. Sure what other people do affects you but if you're concentrated which he should have been then you won't get affected, if you are affected then your not concentrating.

    You've pretty much gone from didn't play great to he played badly in patches and good in patches, which is what I was saying all along. If your going to have an opinion atleast don't change your opinion halfway through.

    Look:

    Ferrer played well consistently throughout. I wouldn't say he dipped significantly at all in the match.

    Murray played poor at times and it was at those times Ferrer took advantage. But when Murray played well Ferrer didn't have the answer often enough.

    And of course Andy is bound to be anxious, anyone with taht much pressure on ther shoulders playing in a tournament where they have a very favourable draw to win their first Grand Slam would be nervous. He's done a lot better than Tim or Greg ever did at dealing with pressure.

    Anyway, final is pretty open.
    lol, I haven't changed any opinion. Don't 'look' me in telling me your own version of events. We have our own version of events. Deal with it you immature little boy.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    lol, I haven't changed any opinion. Don't 'look' me in telling me your own version of events. We have our own version of events. Deal with it you immature little boy.
    Sorry 'look' was my way of highlighting my opinion of the events. Damn, you called me immature, I must be immature.
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    Got to watch these internet hardmen with their neg rep powers. They get drunk with power.

    Not able to watch the womens final but will certainly be tuning in to watch the mens final on Sunday. Until then, ciao.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Got to watch these internet hardmen with their neg rep powers. They get drunk with power.

    Not able to watch the womens final but will certainly be tuning in to watch the mens final on Sunday. Until then, ciao.
    ciao? Can't you just use normal language. And you have the cheek to call me immature.
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    (Original post by JaggySnake95)
    How many times as Federer given praise to his opponent when he's lost? How much respect does he give player's such as Murray, Rafa etc.? Not a lot. Remember when Federer started crying when Rafa won I think Wimbledon and again at the Australian Open? He took away Rafa's moment. A man with double figures in Grand Slams crying.

    He only ever gives praise to his opponent's when he wins. There are some seriously crazy and stuck-up Federer fans.

    And btw, what reason(s) do you have for disliking Andy Murray?
    Nonsense, Federer has the utmost respect and admiration for Nadal. The reason he has double figures is because he cares so much. You aware that Nadal cried after Fed beat him at Wimbledon in 07?

    And have you read/heard the interview Fed gave after his latest defeat?
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    (Original post by Economist)
    Nonsense, Federer has the utmost respect and admiration for Nadal. The reason he has double figures is because he cares so much. You aware that Nadal cried after Fed beat him at Wimbledon in 07?

    And have you read/heard the interview Fed gave after his latest defeat?
    Yes bit Nadal waited until he was in the locker room to do so. One press conference won't make me change my perception of Federer as I've read enough of his quotes to know how stuck up he can be. Admittedly he's a great player, and I acknowledge this, but done of the things he's come out with over the Yeats are enough to make anyone cringe.

    Out of all the top players Federer gives the least credit to his opponents when've loses (yesterday being the exception). The amount of times Federer has blamed his back for his losses is overwhelming. Nadal is 10 times the sportsman Federer is.
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    Djokovic v Murray Final

    Murray didn't play well against Ferrer today, he made far too many unforced errors and struggled in long rallies

    Ferrer is a difficult opponent, good at his game even if he's limited, great athlete as well who never knows when he's beaten

    Djokovic has been playing class in this tournament, moving around the court fantastically and his serve if firing again now, some people think Murray has his best chance ever of winning a Grand Slam without Nadal and Federer but tbh Djokovic is playing as well as them at the moment. Not seen him play as well as this since Australia 2008. Multiple slams at this rate for sure.
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    (Original post by JaggySnake95)
    Yes bit Nadal waited until he was in the locker room to do so. One press conference won't make me change my perception of Federer as I've read enough of his quotes to know how stuck up he can be. Admittedly he's a great player, and I acknowledge this, but done of the things he's come out with over the Yeats are enough to make anyone cringe.

    Out of all the top players Federer gives the least credit to his opponents when've loses (yesterday being the exception). The amount of times Federer has blamed his back for his losses is overwhelming. Nadal is 10 times the sportsman Federer is.
    More ****, he's rarely blamed injury ever, even when he had mono and sweated like a bitch and looked ****ed after a couple of points he played that down. He's never blamed his back for a loss, he commented that his level was slightly down because his back wasn't 100%.

    It always amuses me when idiots slag off Federer and paint Nadal as a saint. I dont remember Federer ever....
    1) Persistently breaking the time rule allocation to his advantage, flat out ignore the umpires requests to speed up and get in a massive strop because the umpire warns him
    2) Take medical timeout for near enough non-existent injury
    3) Break the coaching rules by having conversations with his coach every match
    4) Throw in the towel a few games away from losing in a Slam on the main court because he couldn't hack he was outclassed

    I'm still laughing at the way Nadal stormed off court when Soderling thumped him at Roland Garros, even tried to sign the camera :laugh: Funny you should mention the injury thing because according to the Rafa fanboys Nadal has never lost a match unless he's been injured
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    (Original post by JaggySnake95)
    I don't care who you support and for what reasons but the fact is you clearly have a problem with Murray and for what reason, you have haven't stated. You have problem's with his 'irritating' fans

    'tennis only get's coverage when he plays'. I think you'll find so far the past fortnight the BBC have televised every night session featuring 4 different players, and bearing in mind most of Murray's matches were played during the day Australian Time we got that aswell. Basically what I'm saying is what your saying is pretty pathetic. Of course he get's coverage in the 4 Grand Slams but that was the same with Tim Henman and Greg Rusedski. At the 4 majors all matches on the top court are televised and at Wimbledon you get a selection from pretty much any court you want.

    As for the hype: What do you expect? It was the same for Greg and Rusedki and it wasn't going to change when Andy appeared. The hype isn't something that Andy can do anything about and it happens in all sports for all countries. England for the football for example. The hype there is worse han Murray's. I mean Scottish schools don't get off every time Andy's playing in a big tournament, so why do England?

    I've met a lot of nice Federer fans who RESPECT other players and I usually don't like slagging of others myself either, but when deluded Federer fans come along like yourself who show hatred towards other player's when they've done nothing wrong, I have a lot to say on the issue.

    How many times as Federer given praise to his opponent when he's lost? How much respect does he give player's such as Murray, Rafa etc.? Not a lot. Remember when Federer started crying when Rafa won I think Wimbledon and again at the Australian Open? He took away Rafa's moment. A man with double figures in Grand Slams crying.

    He only ever gives praise to his opponent's when he wins. There are some seriously crazy and stuck-up Federer fans.

    And btw, what reason(s) do you have for disliking Andy Murray?
    I presume you didn't watch his press conference after he lost to Djokovic then...

    Anyway, you seem to dislike Federer, so why shouldn't others be allowed to dislike Murray?

    (I like Murray by the way, just don't think your post was very fair.)

    And hold on a moment lol. You say you like Murray, but one of your reasons for disliking Federer is that he cried when Nadal won the AO. Murray cried when Federer won the AO last year............
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    (Original post by Jonty99)
    I presume you didn't watch his press conference after he lost to Djokovic then...

    Anyway, you seem to dislike Federer, so why shouldn't others be allowed to dislike Murray?

    (I like Murray by the way, just don't think your post was very fair.)

    And hold on a moment lol. You say you like Murray, but one of your reasons for disliking Federer is that he cried when Nadal won the AO. Murray cried when Federer won the AO last year............
    I realise that but they were completely different cir instances.

    I admire Federer's play but I don't go around flagging off Federer whereas there seems to be alot of Murray bashing going on here. When that happens I do tend to bring out the many things that I dislike about Federer.

    As for blaming injury, that really isn't up for debate because 90% he will find I reason for his loss and he will normally not give as muchcredit to his opponents when he loses: today was an exception.
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    (Original post by Economist)
    More ****, he's rarely blamed injury ever, even when he had mono and sweated like a bitch and looked ****ed after a couple of points he played that down. He's never blamed his back for a loss, he commented that his level was slightly down because his back wasn't 100%.

    It always amuses me when idiots slag off Federer and paint Nadal as a saint. I dont remember Federer ever....
    1) Persistently breaking the time rule allocation to his advantage, flat out ignore the umpires requests to speed up and get in a massive strop because the umpire warns him
    2) Take medical timeout for near enough non-existent injury
    3) Break the coaching rules by having conversations with his coach every match
    4) Throw in the towel a few games away from losing in a Slam on the main court because he couldn't hack he was outclassed

    I'm still laughing at the way Nadal stormed off court when Soderling thumped him at Roland Garros, even tried to sign the camera :laugh: Funny you should mention the injury thing because according to the Rafa fanboys Nadal has never lost a match unless he's been injured
    It always amuses me when vitriolic Federer sycophants do the same thing.

    Pretty selective memory you have there, please go ahead and deny that Federer blamed his loss to Berdych at Wimbledon last year on injury, in his words that he can beat them 'when he's healthy'. Berdych admitted that was the reason why he didn't vote for Federer in the sportsmanship awards. If you want to talk about fanboys since you want to tar all of us Nadal supporters, a pretty hefty number of Federer fans attribute all his losses AO 2008 Open onwards to mono, even his loss against Nadal in the Wimbledon final.

    I know when Rafa has been beaten fair and square, and I refuse to attribute it to injury when it's not evident that he has been, so I don't know whether you're referring to fans like me who aren't as uncritical as you'd like to think.

    He may have had praise for Djokovic yesterday but I'm sure Novak remembers that petulant slight he made towards him at the US openly saying he wanted Nadal to win. Federer's far from a gentleman, he's still the petulant egoistic prick he's been since a teenager who cries like a pussy when he loses. The difference being when Rafa did it at Wimbledon 2007 he didn't do it front of everyone like the attention seeker Federer is. Likewise I still laugh every time I remember AO 2009 Federer crying like a bitch.

    Hate to re-ignite the Fedal wars but since you couldn't help yourself I thought I'd return the favour.
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    (Original post by Sirocco11)
    It always amuses me when vitriolic Federer sycophants do the same thing.

    Pretty selective memory you have there, please go ahead and deny that Federer blamed his loss to Berdych at Wimbledon last year on injury, in his words that he can beat them 'when he's healthy'. Berdych admitted that was the reason why he didn't vote for Federer in the sportsmanship awards. If you want to talk about fanboys since you want to tar all of us Nadal supporters, a pretty hefty number of Federer fans attribute all his losses AO 2008 Open onwards to mono, even his loss against Nadal in the Wimbledon final.

    I know when Rafa has been beaten fair and square, and I refuse to attribute it to injury when it's not evident that he has been, so I don't know whether you're referring to fans like me who aren't as uncritical as you'd like to think.

    He may have had praise for Djokovic yesterday but I'm sure Novak remembers that petulant slight he made towards him at the US openly saying he wanted Nadal to win. Federer's far from a gentleman, he's still the petulant egoistic prick he's been since a teenager who cries like a pussy when he loses. The difference being when Rafa did it at Wimbledon 2007 he didn't do it front of everyone like the attention seeker Federer is. Likewise I still laugh every time I remember AO 2009 Federer crying like a bitch.

    Hate to re-ignite the Fedal wars but since you couldn't help yourself I thought I'd return the favour.
    Well i'm not doing the same thing because I accept Federer isn't the best loser. I agree the Berdych comment was poor form but aside from that Fed's comments wrt to any injury have been very fair.

    It'd be wrong not to blame his AO 2008 performance and beginning of season on mono when it was quite clear how badly it was affecting him, though it wasn't the issue at Wimbledon

    What exactly is so petulant about Federer saying he wants his friend to win? He said at the start of this week he wanted Wawrinka to beat Roddick, that petulant as well? I don't see how crying in front of people makes you more of a pussy than crying behind the scenes?

    I'm not painting Federer out to be perfect just correcting someone for knocking him whilst putting Nadal on a pedestal. At the top it's very hard to be a gracious loser, you could make many negative comments about Djokovic and Murray as well
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    Didn't Fed shout across the net at Djokovic in their semi because he thought he was taking too long?

    Anyways, Clijsters won the final in 3. It wasn't even on BBC1 or BBC2 and the closing montage was a preview of the men's final tomorrow, they must've realised that no one cares :lol:
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    (Original post by Economist)
    Well i'm not doing the same thing because I accept Federer isn't the best loser. I agree the Berdych comment was poor form but aside from that Fed's comments wrt to any injury have been very fair.

    It'd be wrong not to blame his AO 2008 performance and beginning of season on mono when it was quite clear how badly it was affecting him, though it wasn't the issue at Wimbledon

    What exactly is so petulant about Federer saying he wants his friend to win? He said at the start of this week he wanted Wawrinka to beat Roddick, that petulant as well? I don't see how crying in front of people makes you more of a pussy than crying behind the scenes?

    I'm not painting Federer out to be perfect just correcting someone for knocking him whilst putting Nadal on a pedestal. At the top it's very hard to be a gracious loser, you could make many negative comments about Djokovic and Murray as well
    Well fair enough, but you went overboard correcting him, it didn't require a whole tirade against Rafa. If you're going to defend Federer, defend him, you don't need to attack Rafa at the same time.

    Perhaps Federer was simply being supportive of his friend in the knowledge that Nadal was about to join him in the Career Grand Slam circle, but nonetheless I'm sure Djokovic felt put out after playing such a great match against him. I'm sure he's redeemed himself in Djokovic's estimation after the praise yesterday but he's not been particularly kind to Novak over the years; not just at the USO but telling his family to be quiet at times, and yesterday having a go at Djokovic for taking too long serving. Djokovic even apologised to Federer during the match.

    I realise this will generate yet more back and forth so I'll leave it there. I'm certainly not raising Rafa up as some kind of paragon either, and as you said flaws are bound with tennis at the level it is at.

    Anyways, disappointed to see Na Li lose after having Clijsters on the ropes for about a set and a half, but in the end the Belgian was solid at the right moments and closed it out very well. Sadly it seems that she'll be retiring soon as she left her victory speech fairly open about the future, but she has had an incredible comeback and I was very glad for her win today, she's a great champion and there won't be many players in the near future that can match her style.

    Anyone brave enough to make predictions tomorrow ? I'm hoping for a 5 setter
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    Djokovic to win it in 4 sets.

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