My hate for stephen fry.

Original post by missygeorgia

Of course it isn't a gimmick, but to pretend that there isn't a massive stigma attached to being gay is to do a disservice with people struggling with this. Until gay people are fully accepted in our society we're going to need gay role models.

I'm a bisexual girl, I have a friend who has commited suicide due to homophobic bullying, and my best friend is currently coming out as a lesbian and really struggling with it. So excuse me if I can't take you seriously when you say it's patronising to suggest that gay role models are extremely important to young people coming to terms with their sexuality.

I'm not going to play battle of the "how-my-friends-are-more-depressed-than-yours", but I disagree. I think the stigma has been largely lifted. I think in fact, the stigma has much reversed (which is a good thing). It is now incredibly taboo to discriminate against homosexuals and rightly so. We live in a largely irreligious, secular environment where minorities including homosexuals are protected under equality law

Now listen, that is not to say that homosexuals still do not have difficulty in coming out, or that homosexuals do not suffer discrimination. Many do, but the point I'm making is that your rather gimmicky over-sensationalised view of homosexuality is what fuels homophobia. There's nothing good/great/bad/wrong/brilliant/terrible about homosexuality, it's just an orientation.

And yes, I'm sure your whole circle of friends is full of depressed homosexuals, and therefore that makes you king of the homosexuals and an expert on homosexuality for being bi-sexual :facepalm:

I haven't heard the "my friends are X so therefore I'm Y..." argument since the "I'm not a racist, my friend is black" days.

Reply 67

Beska

21

Original post by chaosdestro0

I suggest you read these articles by an actual good set of journalists.

You then go on to link a website written by 15 year olds in their moms basement. Good job.

Reply 68

heartimplode

Part of me died when I saw the title of this thread. I love Stephen Fry, and so do a lot of other people. He can be on TV if he wants.

Reply 69

donuticus

12

Original post by chaosdestro0

Problem with El reg?
At least they do not and mislead like the rest of the media, *Points to daily fail*.

Says someone quoting Julie Birchill.

Hate filled witch will all the journalistic integrity of Hermann Goering.

Reply 70

donuticus

12

Not only does he narrate Harry Potter he also narrates the all new blockbuster "Benjamin Sniddlegrass and the Cauldron of Penguins."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1765716/

Reply 71

Original post by jumpingjesusholycow

I'm not going to play battle of the "how-my-friends-are-more-depressed-than-yours", but I disagree. I think the stigma has been largely lifted. I think in fact, the stigma has much reversed (which is a good thing). It is now incredibly taboo to discriminate against homosexuals and rightly so. We live in a largely irreligious, secular environment where minorities including homosexuals are protected under equality law

Now listen, that is not to say that homosexuals still do not have difficulty in coming out, or that homosexuals do not suffer discrimination. Many do, but the point I'm making is that your rather gimmicky over-sensationalised view of homosexuality is what fuels homophobia. There's nothing good/great/bad/wrong/brilliant/terrible about homosexuality, it's just an orientation.

And yes, I'm sure your whole circle of friends is full of depressed homosexuals, and therefore that makes you king of the homosexuals and an expert on homosexuality for being bi-sexual :facepalm:

I haven't heard the "my friends are X so therefore I'm Y..." argument since the "I'm not a racist, my friend is black" days.

What exactly is gimmicky and over-sensationalised about my view of homosexuality?

Not quite sure what you mean by your incredibly patronising (hey, irony) last paragraph- I'm not queer because my friends are queer, I'm queer because I am queer. I need gay role models. I have difficulty coming out. I experience homophobia. That has nothing to do with my friends. That doesn't make me an expert, but it sure as hell makes me laugh when you tell me that 'the stigma has been largely lifted'. Yeah? Tell that to gay people and they will laugh in your face. Tell that to the 70% of gay schoochildren that get bullied, or the 41% that get beaten up. Tell that to the parents of Johnathan Reynolds or Laura Rhodes, who killed themselves due to homophobic bullying. Maybe you should think about how your implicit claim that homophobia isn't particularly an issue anymore trivialises the suffering of these people.

I'm not an 'expert' purely because my friends are gay or because I have lesbian relationships, but I clearly know more about it than you if you think that the stigma has been lifted. You will not be able to find an uncloseted gay person who hasn't experienced homophobia. And this trivialising of the bullying and prejudice that gay people suffer is what permits homophobia, not an acknowledgement of it.

Edit- as is outined in this article
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-is-it-wrong-to-protect-gay-children-2196470.html

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 72

Original post by missygeorgia

X

I never stated that there was no stigma at all, but that the stigma isn't as heavy as it used to be. I also inferred that there is also a new (and frankly quite good) stigma that makes homophobia taboo. So much so that Theresa May, conservative home secretary who espoused support for Section 18 reversed her political position on homosexuality in front of an audience on Question Time. Apart from extreme parties (such as the BNP), homophobia has become taboo and all mainstream political parties from green to tory have united on tackling homophobia. That is not to say that homophobia does not exist, but that the context your placing homosexuals in is incorrect, and your over-sensationalisation of 'gay issues' does nothing but detract from the reality that being gay makes (or rather, should make) no difference to one's life.

Reply 73

Original post by jumpingjesusholycow

I never stated that there was no stigma at all, but that the stigma isn't as heavy as it used to be. I also inferred that there is also a new (and frankly quite good) stigma that makes homophobia taboo. So much so that Theresa May, conservative home secretary who espoused support for Section 18 reversed her political position on homosexuality in front of an audience on Question Time. Apart from extreme parties (such as the BNP), homophobia has become taboo and all mainstream political parties from green to tory have united on tackling homophobia. That is not to say that homophobia does not exist, but that the context your placing homosexuals in is incorrect, and your over-sensationalisation of 'gay issues' does nothing but detract from the reality that being gay makes (or rather, should make) no difference to one's life.

Of course being gay should make no difference to one's life. The point is, it does. And rather than just pretending it doesn't, rather than just trying not to talk about 'gay issues', or saying that they're a community that don't need any help or attention, isn't reducing the prejudice, it's ignoring and enabling homophobia. Acknowledging the really, really difficult barriers that all homosexuals face isn't 'over-sensationalisation' (give me a break), it's realising the truth. Saying that there are people who die over this- that's not oversensationalisation, that's honesty.

the context your placing homosexuals in is incorrect- what context am I placing them in?

Reply 74

Original post by missygeorgia

Of course being gay should make no difference to one's life. The point is, it does. And rather than just pretending it doesn't, rather than just trying not to talk about 'gay issues', or saying that they're a community that don't need any help or attention, isn't reducing the prejudice, it's ignoring and enabling homophobia. Acknowledging the really, really difficult barriers that all homosexuals face isn't 'over-sensationalisation' (give me a break), it's realising the truth. Saying that there are people who die over this- that's not oversensationalisation, that's honesty.

the context your placing homosexuals in is incorrect- what context am I placing them in?

And at what point have I 'pretended' that homosexuals don't suffer from discrimination? Muslims, Catholics, Gays, Blacks, Asians, Turks etc. all suffer from forms of discrimination in some form or another, but the point that I'm making is that turning being gay into some sort of gimmick that implying that being gay is a good context for being a 'role model' is rather pretentious and patronising. I would heed this advice before proclaiming to speak for the homosexual population.

Reply 75

Original post by jumpingjesusholycow

And at what point have I 'pretended' that homosexuals don't suffer from discrimination? Muslims, Catholics, Gays, Blacks, Asians, Turks etc. all suffer from forms of discrimination in some form or another, but the point that I'm making is that turning being gay into some sort of gimmick that implying that being gay is a good context for being a 'role model' is rather pretentious and patronising. I would heed this advice before proclaiming to speak for the homosexual population.

You're not 'pretending' as such, but your claims that being gay makes no difference to ones life and your accusations of me 'over-sensationalising' when I outline the results of homophobia certainly point that way, yes.

Still have no idea what this 'gimmick' I'm constructing homosexuals as is, please enlighten me.

Still have no idea why saying it's important for there to be homosexual role models is 'patronising and pretentious'.

Still unsure as to where I was supposed to be 'over-sensationalising'.

Your argument basically went, as far as I can see, 'because homophobia isn't that bad anymore' 'ok fine it is but you're still wrong'.

Reply 76

donuticus

12

Original post by chaosdestro0

"Stephen fry is a stupid persons idea of a clever person."Julie Burchill

Firstly the Japan case and secondly the fact that he thought packet switching relied on having the same time set universely. What a utter arrogant, sheeple.

He should not be on T.V he is also a complete apple sell out and he often assumes something and is wrong.
In case you don't know, because of the media worshipping I suggest you read these articles by an actual good set of journalists.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/24/bbc_fry_apology/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/18/stephen_frytard/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/17/stephen_fry_invests_in_pushnote/

Julie Burchill is a stupid persons idea of a serious journalist.

Reply 77

Original post by missygeorgia

You're not 'pretending' as such, but your claims that being gay makes no difference to ones life and your accusations of me 'over-sensationalising' when I outline the results of homophobia certainly point that way, yes.

Point to where I claimed 'being gay makes no difference' :facepalm:

Your hypersensitivity knows no bounds, and you've seemingly ignored everything I have pointed out about your idea that being gay makes someone a better role model.

Your argument basically went, as far as I can see, 'because homophobia isn't that bad anymore' 'ok fine it is but you're still wrong'.

In which case, you're either stupid, or ignorant. Take your pick :smile:

Reply 78