Scroll to see replies
Original post by gladders
Yes, they can.
We can vote in their election?
Never knew that!
British citizens can't vote in Irish referendums, however. That privilege is reserved to Irish citizens.
Commonwealth citizens are able to vote here because they are not foreigners. One of the provisions of the UK's Republic of Ireland Act, which recognised Ireland's complete separation from Britain and the Commonwealth, provided expressly too that Irish citizens were not foreign in Britain.
Commonwealth citizens are able to vote here because they are not foreigners. One of the provisions of the UK's Republic of Ireland Act, which recognised Ireland's complete separation from Britain and the Commonwealth, provided expressly too that Irish citizens were not foreign in Britain.
Original post by Lewis :D
Also, can British vote in Irish elections?
Also, can British vote in Irish elections?
In the Republic of Ireland, a resident British Citizen can vote on local, EU and General Elections, but not Presidential Elections or Referenda.
I don't know whether this right to a vote in the RofI disqualies the resident British citizen from voting in British elections, but the vice versa situation of an Irish citizen resident in British will disqualify them from voting in their own country's elections.
If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list). source: citizens advice ie.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by yawn
In the Republic of Ireland, a resident British Citizen can vote on local, EU and General Elections, but not Presidential Elections or Referenda.
I don't know whether this right to a vote in the RofI disqualies the resident British citizen from voting in British elections, but the vice versa situation of an Irish citizen resident in British will disqualify them from voting in their own country's elections.
I don't know whether this right to a vote in the RofI disqualies the resident British citizen from voting in British elections, but the vice versa situation of an Irish citizen resident in British will disqualify them from voting in their own country's elections.
For Ireland the issue is that more Irish citizens live outside its borders than inside its borders. Therefore if Irish citizens overseas were allowed to vote, a large proportion of the electorate would not necessarily have the same concerns as those who lived there. This becomes particularly significant when one appreciates that Irish citizenship is available on the same terms throughout the island of Ireland. I don't think Ian Paisley has taken up his Irish passport but there is no reason why he shouldn't.
For the UK, only British citizens can vote if not registered in the UK and only then if they have been registered to vote whilst resident in the UK in the last 15 years. Again the reason for this is that there are many millions of British citizens abroad who have never visited Britain and to allow them to vote would skew the electorate.
Some assumptions made here without any supporting evidence. There are moves to allow for Irish citizens living in Britain to have the same voting rights as those British citizens living in Ireland. What's your opinion on this...do you think it's a good idea or not?
The discussions are largely about voting in the Senate, not the Dail. I suspect if it introduced, it will be in similar terms as in the UK so that it benefits expats but not people with an Irish granny.
However the Northern Irish problem may be intractable. Do they only get the vote if they have lived in the South and moved to Northern Ireland or does merely living in Northern Ireland count? That involves some pretty fundamental questions that, for obvious reasons the UK and Ireland try to avoid answering. However, If Dail voting rights are extended to Northern Irish based persons with no connection to the South, then the northern electorate can gerrymander a southern Dail election by choosing their constituency. A northern Unionist bloc could hold the balance of power in the Dail.
Oh, yes...I remember reading that during one of the election campaigns headed by Thatcher, the regulations were changed to allow for British ex pats living in Australia, Canada and South Africa to vote in UK General elections. Do you think that this was implemented to skew the electorate, particularly since many of them probably had no intention of ever returning to live in Britain?
This was not really an issue with emigrants to the Old Commonwealth. It was the Spanish Costas and the Toujours Provence lot. There had been a genuine grassroots campaign for a number of years before it was introduced. Labour was wary, suspecting that this was a plan to increase the Tory vote. I think some elements of the Tory party saw it the same way but others were suspicious of change. In the event it has been a complete damp squib. The numbers that vote are tiny (only 13,000 were on the register in 2009)
With regard to 1992 in a memo to the House of Commons Select Committee Prof Robert Blackburn said fewer than 40000 voted in 1992 and 1997. The number of voters in seats with say less than a 2000 majority must have been very small.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
Labour was wary, suspecting that this was a plan to increase the Tory vote. I think some elements of the Tory party saw it the same way but others were suspicious of change. In the event it has been a complete damp squib. The numbers that vote are tiny (only 13,000 were on the register in 2009)
With regard to 1992 in a memo to the House of Commons Select Committee Prof Robert Blackburn said fewer than 40000 voted in 1992 and 1997. The number of voters in seats with say less than a 2000 majority must have been very small.
Labour was wary, suspecting that this was a plan to increase the Tory vote. I think some elements of the Tory party saw it the same way but others were suspicious of change. In the event it has been a complete damp squib. The numbers that vote are tiny (only 13,000 were on the register in 2009)
With regard to 1992 in a memo to the House of Commons Select Committee Prof Robert Blackburn said fewer than 40000 voted in 1992 and 1997. The number of voters in seats with say less than a 2000 majority must have been very small.
Thanks for all of your information, nulli tertius; I want to remind you of this quote from the website I provided:
In 1992, the expat vote was credited with helping the Conservatives to win several marginal seats contributing to their last UK general election victory.
Not such a damp squib it seems, since the ex pat vote had an impact on that particular election...according to the Tories.
Under the current voting legislation, Britons who live overseas automatically lose their right to take part in general elections if they have lived abroad for more than 15 years.
Up until then, they can continue to vote providing they are on a list of overseas electors, and ballot papers are usually sent in by post in the run up to election day. But now the coalition government is facing a challenge from Harry Shindler, a 90-year-old Second World War veteran living in Italy who has taken his case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
The court in turn has asked Britain to explain its actions. In its request it writes: "One of the major concerns of the Council of Europe is to preserve and strengthen democracy and civic rights of member states.
"Steps should therefore be taken to ensure that every national of a member state is able to exercise his political rights, at least in his country of origin, when he resides in another Council of Europe member state." It says: "Due regard should be given to the voting rights of citizens living abroad. The right to vote is an essential freedom in every democratic system.".
The request from Strasbourg on overseas voting rules must be returned by April 7 and Mr Shindler believes he and hundreds of other Italy-based ex pats who are backing him have a strong case.
Mr Shindler, moved to Italy in the early 1980s and fought there with the British Army during the Second World War, he is also the representative of the Italy Star Association, a group for ex servicemen who fought in the country.
Mr Shindler, who lives near Ascoli Piceno, said: "When I first raised this in a letter with Jack Straw a few years ago he wrote back and told me that Britons abroad could not vote as they had broken their ties with Britain. "That's absolute nonsense. I and countless others have not broken our ties with Britain we still have many friends and families there and we visit as often as we can. "What is also very important is that many pensioners get their pensions from Britain and the government looks after these pensions so we should have a say in the election of that government.
"I truly believe the government will lose this and to prevent any further embarrassment to them I suggest that they concede now rather than take the long winded route through the European Court of Human Rights."
Up until then, they can continue to vote providing they are on a list of overseas electors, and ballot papers are usually sent in by post in the run up to election day. But now the coalition government is facing a challenge from Harry Shindler, a 90-year-old Second World War veteran living in Italy who has taken his case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
The court in turn has asked Britain to explain its actions. In its request it writes: "One of the major concerns of the Council of Europe is to preserve and strengthen democracy and civic rights of member states.
"Steps should therefore be taken to ensure that every national of a member state is able to exercise his political rights, at least in his country of origin, when he resides in another Council of Europe member state." It says: "Due regard should be given to the voting rights of citizens living abroad. The right to vote is an essential freedom in every democratic system.".
The request from Strasbourg on overseas voting rules must be returned by April 7 and Mr Shindler believes he and hundreds of other Italy-based ex pats who are backing him have a strong case.
Mr Shindler, moved to Italy in the early 1980s and fought there with the British Army during the Second World War, he is also the representative of the Italy Star Association, a group for ex servicemen who fought in the country.
Mr Shindler, who lives near Ascoli Piceno, said: "When I first raised this in a letter with Jack Straw a few years ago he wrote back and told me that Britons abroad could not vote as they had broken their ties with Britain. "That's absolute nonsense. I and countless others have not broken our ties with Britain we still have many friends and families there and we visit as often as we can. "What is also very important is that many pensioners get their pensions from Britain and the government looks after these pensions so we should have a say in the election of that government.
"I truly believe the government will lose this and to prevent any further embarrassment to them I suggest that they concede now rather than take the long winded route through the European Court of Human Rights."
This was published in the Guardian on 31st January last. What do you think of the ramifications inherent here to the well-being of those living in Britain?
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by yawn
Thanks for all of your information, nulli tertius; I want to remind you of this quote from the website I provided:
Not such a damp squib it seems, since the ex pat vote had an impact on that particular election...according to the Tories.
Not such a damp squib it seems, since the ex pat vote had an impact on that particular election...according to the Tories.
A political party trying to persuade its supporters to register and vote is hardly the most unbiased source!
This is the Telegraph's view
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4189746/Expats-Britains-forgotten-electorate.html
One seat, one election. One non-entity elected; Walter Sweeney.
For all the hard work put in to get overseas voters, the Tories might have found it easier if they had put up a Welshman rather than a Yorkshireman for the seat.
Original post by yawn
Thanks for all of your information, nulli tertius; I want to remind you of this quote from the website I provided:
Not such a damp squib it seems, since the ex pat vote had an impact on that particular election...according to the Tories.
This was published in the Guardian on 31st January last. What do you think of the ramifications inherent here to the well-being of those living in Britain?
Not such a damp squib it seems, since the ex pat vote had an impact on that particular election...according to the Tories.
This was published in the Guardian on 31st January last. What do you think of the ramifications inherent here to the well-being of those living in Britain?
The tie to voting in the British Parliament has always been residential. If it had been nationality, Obama would be First Minister of America but goodness knows how we would have fought the Battle of Britain under Gandhi!
The changes made in the 80s broke that link. The initial breach was only for people absent for up to 5 years and that is understandable. The change to 20 years (it is now 15) was not justified.
One can see the problem with the man quoted. His only interest is as a recipient of public money. He doesn't care whether taxes are high or taxes are low; the quality of the NHS; whether business prospers; whether there should more police or fewer immigrants.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
One can see the problem with the man quoted. His only interest is as a recipient of public money. He doesn't care whether taxes are high or taxes are low; the quality of the NHS; whether business prospers; whether there should more police or fewer immigrants.
One can see the problem with the man quoted. His only interest is as a recipient of public money. He doesn't care whether taxes are high or taxes are low; the quality of the NHS; whether business prospers; whether there should more police or fewer immigrants.
Exactly...and there might be many more like him who have the self same-interest.
I agree with the principle that they should vote. Australians, Jamaicans etc are similar to us in many respects (legal system, language, maybe even the same Head of State), they are eligible to becomes MPs and Peers of the Realm*, and are not really 'aliens' as Lib has pointed out.
If they have right of abode here then they absolutely should be allowed to vote in our elections.
*Peers of the Realm, but not members of the House of Lords, as of July 2010, unless domiciled here.
If they have right of abode here then they absolutely should be allowed to vote in our elections.
*Peers of the Realm, but not members of the House of Lords, as of July 2010, unless domiciled here.
Original post by AnythingButChardonnay
I agree with the principle that they should vote. Australians, Jamaicans etc are similar to us in many respects (legal system, language, maybe even the same Head of State), they are eligible to becomes MPs and Peers of the Realm*, and are not really 'aliens' as Lib has pointed out.
If they have right of abode here then they absolutely should be allowed to vote in our elections.
*Peers of the Realm, but not members of the House of Lords, as of July 2010, unless domiciled here.
If they have right of abode here then they absolutely should be allowed to vote in our elections.
*Peers of the Realm, but not members of the House of Lords, as of July 2010, unless domiciled here.
You have misunderstood the new legislation. He is treated as though he he is resident, ordinarily resident and domiciled here for tax purposes but he doesn't have to actually live here
Original post by nulli tertius
You have misunderstood the new legislation. He is treated as though he he is resident, ordinarily resident and domiciled here for tax purposes but he doesn't have to actually live here
He?
Original post by AnythingButChardonnay
He?
A peer of the realm. Statistically a "he"
Original post by nulli tertius
A peer of the realm. Statistically a "he"
Oh, I thought you were talking about some nebulus person!
I still don't quite follow, though. You can be a Peer (ie, hold a title) without being a member of the House of Lords - just look at the hereditaries. All Peers, but not members of the Lords.
Additionally, since last year, you can be a Peer (life or exempted hereditary) who was hitherto eligible to sit in the Lords, but can no longer because you are not domiciled here.
So Commonwealthers and Irish can be Peers most definitely, regardless of domcile. They can still sit in the House of Lords... but need to be domiciled here. Personally I think that's a shame.
I don't think I've got that wrong, have I?
Original post by AnythingButChardonnay
Oh, I thought you were talking about some nebulus person!
I still don't quite follow, though. You can be a Peer (ie, hold a title) without being a member of the House of Lords - just look at the hereditaries. All Peers, but not members of the Lords.
I still don't quite follow, though. You can be a Peer (ie, hold a title) without being a member of the House of Lords - just look at the hereditaries. All Peers, but not members of the Lords.
Additionally, since last year, you can be a Peer (life or exempted hereditary) who was hitherto eligible to sit in the Lords, but can no longer because you are not domiciled here.
No, this is the error. There is no requirement to be domiciled here. However if you sit in the House of Lords you are taxed as though you are domiciled, resident and ordinarily resident here regardless of whether you are actually domiciled here.
So Commonwealthers and Irish can be Peers most definitely, regardless of domcile. They can still sit in the House of Lords... but need to be domiciled here. Personally I think that's a shame.
They merely need to be willing to accept that they pay taxes as if they are domiciled here.
You might ask what the difference is? It matters in things like divorce, marriage and wills
I don't think I've got that wrong, have I?
Original post by Lewis :D
We can vote in their election? Never knew that!
Never knew that!If we live there that is, plus voting registration I think has closed, the polls in the Irish Election are in 12 days time
Original post by nulli tertius
No, this is the error. There is no requirement to be domiciled here. However if you sit in the House of Lords you are taxed as though you are domiciled, resident and ordinarily resident here regardless of whether you are actually domiciled here.
They merely need to be willing to accept that they pay taxes as if they are domiciled here.
You might ask what the difference is? It matters in things like divorce, marriage and wills
They merely need to be willing to accept that they pay taxes as if they are domiciled here.
You might ask what the difference is? It matters in things like divorce, marriage and wills
I have no reason not to believe you, you seem to know what you're talking about.
I remember watching the debate, one South African lady Peer was worried about being given the boot. Maybe that's why they've done it like that - seems more sensible.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- LNAT essay review
- Countersignatory for first adult passport from overseas
- Pls give feedback on this essay!
- Dwp Work Coach - ID validation
- Rishi Sunak working towards general election in 'second half of the year'
- LNAT Section B
- Michelle O’Neil becomes the first nationalist First Minister in Northern Ireland
- TSR opinion poll, Feb 2024: how would you vote in the general election?
- Should i vote Labour?
- Indian's At (RMA) Royal Military Academy Sandhurst
- [Official] 2024 US elections megathread
- 2023–24 by-elections thread
- Rochdale By-election: George Galloway elected as new MP
- Martin Lewis urges millions to claim back £1,256 from HMRC before deadline in weeks
- Edexcel A Level Politics Paper 3A (9PL0 3A) 16th June 2023 [Exam Chat]
- erin11 asks...have you registered to vote yet?
- Edexcel A-level Politics Paper 1 (9PL0 01) - 23rd May 2023 [Exam Chat]
- How does one even go about answering this question!?
- Can someone please give me feedback on my A-Level Politics essay?
- Malaysia elective - visa help
Latest
Trending
Last reply 6 hours ago
Even Europe’s far-right firebrands seem to sense Brexit is a disaster- The GuardianLast reply 1 day ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Sunak rejects offer of youth mobility scheme between EU and UKLast reply 1 week ago
Rayner denies wrongdoing over council house sale amid police reviewLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Big Discussion #1: What should be top priority to protect the environment?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Where do you stand on the political spectrum (8values)? – Take a quiz here!Last reply 3 weeks ago
2024 UK general election speculation and build-up threadLast reply 3 weeks ago
No progress made on half of UK government’s levelling-up targetsLast reply 3 weeks ago
Trump needs a $464m bond in six days. What if he can't get it?Trending
Last reply 6 hours ago
Even Europe’s far-right firebrands seem to sense Brexit is a disaster- The GuardianLast reply 1 day ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Sunak rejects offer of youth mobility scheme between EU and UKLast reply 1 week ago
Rayner denies wrongdoing over council house sale amid police reviewLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Big Discussion #1: What should be top priority to protect the environment?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Where do you stand on the political spectrum (8values)? – Take a quiz here!Last reply 3 weeks ago
2024 UK general election speculation and build-up threadLast reply 3 weeks ago
No progress made on half of UK government’s levelling-up targetsLast reply 3 weeks ago
Trump needs a $464m bond in six days. What if he can't get it?
