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Reply 180
Original post by SummerRain92
What do you mean by Jewish approval? Israelis are NOT only Jews. As for your other comments I disagree. Israelis have just as much of right to that land as the Palestinians.


well israel is the one CLAIMING ISRAEL IS A JEWISH STATE, so therefore they shall be referred to as JEWS, as thats what they want.

The jews seeked refuge in palestine from the nazis of germany, then turned on the palestinians, and used terrorism against the palestinians and created israel, thats not a made up story thats the truth in its entirety and if thats too hot for you to handle then go watch cartoon network instead, israel was created by jewish terrorists therefore its so hypocritical when the jews whinge about being atatcked by terrorists, its not even the fact that jews took land and created israel, its mroe abvout how they took that land and how they created isarel, then where were USA's anti terrorism statements, then where was the UN, then where was the military action against the terrorist jews of palestine, i will tell you, there was none, the usa easily went into iraq on shoddy intelligence but where were the usa's so called prinicples when they watched the terrorist jews of palestine literally kick out the palestinains out of their homes, the very palestinian where the jews escaped to from hitler.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 181
Original post by romski
They blame Irean because Iran doesn't play ball, and if your not on team america/israel.....

the best thing iran can do is head eastand stay in the russian chinese camp, they have been effective at stopping UN sanctions but the west haes imposed unilateral sanctions

the bottom line is palestians miidle east etc need to stop investing there time in islam/religion and start investing it more into defence science etc

then they might find that they wont get pushed around and humiliated so much



i agree
Original post by CODKING
Stop with the impatience already chaver!

So if someone gets a bit emotional or makes a statement lacking precision that only superficially represents my position, and then only deal with this new superficial 'construct', I can play the strawman card?

I think I've got it now.

We'll start over when you've said something bonkers about the IDF being careful about civilian casualties or something.

Here's a link I'd like your opinion on as I'm thinking of starting a thread on it:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israeli-Army-T-Shirt-Controversy-Images-Slogans-Mock-Gaza-Killings/Media-Gallery/200903315245923?lid=GALLERY_15245923_IsraeliArmyTShirtControversy:Images,SlogansMockGazaKillings&lpos=searchresults#

They get more offensive as you click through them. The pregnant Palestinian woman and its 2 for 1 message really is a piece of work.


The IDF continue to disgust me. How can people claim that their actions are justified, killing pregnant women is abhorrent enough but to make a t-shirt that publicly sanctions and praises such action is utterly disgraceful.

This sorry case reminds me of a similar controversy centering around a female IDF soldier Eden Abergil that you may have heard about; here's the link, I'm sure you'll find it equally distasteful.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1303715/Eden-Aberjils-Facebook-photos-blindfolded-Palestinian-prisoners-spark-outrage.html

To be honest that whore should be shot...
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by planetearth
Because Israel keeps building illegal settlements, and has 500,000 Israeli citizens illegally present in Palestinian territory in the West Bank.

Israel protects these people with military personal, despite their illegal presence.

As long as that exists a two-state solution can never happen, and Israel doesn't want it to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank


It's funny, when Iraqi's were being "oppressed" we "liberated" them, but when Israel is the aggressor, we do nothing.
Original post by thisisnew
What are you talking about "my opinion"? I'm echoing the opinions of distinguished experts on law and lawyers. Believe it or not the legal matters in this conflict are incredibly complex. It's laughable for someone to claim that UN 'evidence' is "conclusive". Are you aware that it was your coveted and infallible UN with their conclusive evidence that established ISAF?

And as I have already stated the UN has no actual power. Any notion indicating that they have some sort of universal jurisdiction is nothing but conceptual and completely ridiculous. A country is well within their right to ignore a UN resolution if it compromises their security and national interests for example the resolution regarding the "apartheid wall" which has proven to have reduced terrorism by an incredible amount. What if the resolution had have blocked this wall?

The Americans vetoed whilst suggesting "an alternate draft that would have called on all parties in the Middle East struggle to dismantle terrorist groups. " This would have been fairer because it involved everyone and not the ignorant and unilateral condemnation of one party in the conflict.

The fact that a conflict which pales in comparison to recent ones receives such an extremely disproportionate amount of resolutions is enough to deduct that the UN has political motivations. If it didn't then where are the resolutions against China? Why hasn't it done anything about China ignoring Iran sanctions? Why so comparatively few resolutions against Burma and NK? Why do countries with shocking human rights records receive little to no attention in comparison? If the UN made resolutions purely in the name of justice supported by "conclusive evidence" then why isn't there an equal/greater number of resolutions against Iran, China, Sudan, Burma, West Papua, Eritrea, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Zimbabwe? I hope you're not going to sit their with a straight face and tell me that these countries are deserving of the relatively few resolutions/zero they are faced with.

There's clear evidence of bias coming from the UN. How about the Arab League & allies usually being included by the security council and not Israel, which subsequently condemns the Jewish state? Didn't see that coming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations#Veto_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations#Attention_given_to_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations#Allegations_of_anti-Zionism_and_antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations#Alleged_support_for_Palestinian_militancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_United_Nations_bias_in_Israel-Palestine_issues

And here's an in depth look at UN/Israeli relations: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/israel_un.html

And lastly I can accept that Israel has done some terrible things. What I can't accept is holocaust denying morons who believe that Israel is a Nazi, genocidal and apartheid state which massacres thousands daily whilst violating every possible international law. The bottom line is that the Arab-Israeli & in particular the Palestine-Israeli conflict is incredibly conflict both morally and legally, with no real precedent to judge it by. If you bothered to research the conflict impartially instead of pandering to propaganda and placing emotion above fact then you'd see how ridiculous, unfair and detrimental the attention directed towards Israel actually is.

And I mean it this time I can't be bothered discussing this with you so don't expect a reply.



There are 225 resolutions over a period of 62 years, the other conflicts shown by your link lasted a maximum of 5 years, China/Russia/North Korea cannot be included in this because their not oppressing a different race of people.

Furthermore, the "death" toll shown by the link is completely disproportionate, since far more Palestinian civilians have perished than the IDF (Israeli Defence Force) have declared. Because no one listens to the Palestinian figures, because all media in the area is filtered through Israel.
Original post by thisisnew
then you'd see how ridiculous, unfair and detrimental the attention directed towards Israel actually is.


It's not ridiculous, unfair or detrimental. If anything, America's support of Israel to the point where they veto a resolution that over 130 countries supported is ridiculous.

Unfair?Israel's policies are unfair toward the Palestinians. Ignoring international jurisdiction and continuing to build illegal settlements is unfair and should be condemned.

Detrimental? It's not detrimental to Israel at all, Israel will continue to build their illegal settlements in attempts to grab Palestinian land. Israel are already arrogant enough to completely disregard the worlds condemnation just because America supports their policies. It's not even really giving Israel bad press, the world already hates Israel more or less but just can't openly condemn it.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by zohaib93
well israel is the one CLAIMING ISRAEL IS A JEWISH STATE, so therefore they shall be referred to as JEWS, as thats what they want.

The jews seeked refuge in palestine from the nazis of germany, then turned on the palestinians, and used terrorism against the palestinians and created israel, thats not a made up story thats the truth in its entirety and if thats too hot for you to handle then go watch cartoon network instead, israel was created by jewish terrorists therefore its so hypocritical when the jews whinge about being atatcked by terrorists, its not even the fact that jews took land and created israel, its mroe abvout how they took that land and how they created isarel, then where were USA's anti terrorism statements, then where was the UN, then where was the military action against the terrorist jews of palestine, i will tell you, there was none, the usa easily went into iraq on shoddy intelligence but where were the usa's so called prinicples when they watched the terrorist jews of palestine literally kick out the palestinains out of their homes, the very palestinian where the jews escaped to from hitler.


First of all, seeked? And we never "turned" on them. If anyone turned on someone it was the opposite of what you stated. Also just because I disagree with you does not me a child that cannot handle the real world so don't just tell me to go and watch cartoons.

Israel was created a safe place for the Jews and NOT by Jewish terrorists as you mentioned before. You make it sound like the Jews have done everything from the beginning (anti-Semite?) but you know the Palestinians are not as innocent as you seem to think they are.

Maybe if you didn't just follow biased news you would know the REAL story.
Original post by crazycake93
There are 225 resolutions over a period of 62 years, the other conflicts shown by your link lasted a maximum of 5 years, China/Russia/North Korea cannot be included in this because their not oppressing a different race of people.

Furthermore, the "death" toll shown by the link is completely disproportionate, since far more Palestinian civilians have perished than the IDF (Israeli Defence Force) have declared. Because no one listens to the Palestinian figures, because all media in the area is filtered through Israel.


Resolutions are exclusive only to countries that "oppress" others? Funny, I could swear that they extend far beyond that. See Libya today and Iran in the past.

And for your information China is oppressing another group (Uyghurs & East Turkistan, Tibet recently) of people and is showing alarming amounts of aggression to others (Taiwan). The UN has put forward a resolution against Libya very recently for its treatment of protesters, where are all the resolutions against China from the great leap forward up until their human rights actions recently? Where are all the resolutions against NK? What about the cossacks, Ukrainians, Hungarians all killed by the Soviets etc? What about the apparent genocide of Chechens carried out by Russia? I'm fairly sure the entire conflict between Chechnya and Russia? Also to my knowledge the UN didn't do anything regarding the South Ossetia War?

Also 133 resolutions regarding Israel were passed over a 22 year period (67-89). During this period the Cambodian Civil War was in full swing. Between 1993-2003 when atrocities amounting to genocide happening in Congo another 33 or so were passed. This is not to mention the fact that many of these resolutions are "Strongly condemning Israeli attack on ______". There is a huge difference here. Israel is engaged in a military conflict where as many other atrocities are flat out genocide and oppression yet the death toll remains one of the lowest of all modern conflicts so why such an extreme amount of resolutions> Where are all the resolutions condemning each and every Hamas/Hezbollah attack? Where are the resolutions against all of the Arab aggression in the whole conflict? Do tell. Also how many of these resolutions wrongfully ignore Israel's right to defend its civilians from rocket fire?

Spoiler



And the latter part of your post is just garbage for a number of reasons I can't be bothered going in to.

Original post by sherlllll
It's not ridiculous, unfair or detrimental. If anything, America's support of Israel to the point where they veto a resolution that over 130 countries supported is ridiculous.

Unfair?Israel's policies are unfair toward the Palestinians. Ignoring international jurisdiction and continuing to build illegal settlements is unfair and should be condemned.

Detrimental? It's not detrimental to Israel at all, Israel will continue to build their illegal settlements in attempts to grab Palestinian land. Israel are already arrogant enough to completely disregard the worlds condemnation just because America supports their policies. It's not even really giving Israel bad press, the world already hates Israel more or less but just can't openly condemn it.


It's detrimental to the peace process to unilaterally condemn one side giving the impression that said side is completely in the wrong and has to stop everything it is doing. Such a black and white approach is not a good thing regarding this conflict. The only thing I agree on is that Israel [for the sake of peace] needs to halt settlement building indefinitely.

And I also agree that Israel should be condemned in certain areas. What I don't agree with is the fact that people who are by far worse off than the civilian population of Gaza are starved of a much needed voice in the international community and attention to their plight. During the span of the entire Arab-Israeli conflict many atrocities have taken place that have received relatively few to no resolutions at all. That's a problem.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 188
Original post by thisisnew


And the latter part of your post is just garbage for a number of reasons I can't be bothered going in to.

I hope I don't get this treatment!


It's detrimental to the peace process to unilaterally condemn one side giving the impression that said side is completely in the wrong


So the whole world condemns what israel is doing and you want to twist that into israel is somehow the victim? Why try and loop on something that is so starkly clear? That seems to be the key characteristic of all the jewish/zionist/non-jewish zionist posters on here; never admit anything in response to a question. If you have done wrong, just own up to it and perhaps realise there is actually credibility in doing so. This blind refusal to concede anything isn’t debating; it’s stonewalling.

Question for you:

Why do you think is it always America that vetoes in favour of Israel?
Oh my what has happened to the thread :frown:

Israel in the wrong for so many things, settlements that aren't needed for instance, still being in West Bank which is an all right place and not run by terrorist but they are right with Gaza, all of them terrorist and the boarding of the flotilla's.

In the end Israel will need to make the Holy cities open for all, run by the (****munchers) UN perhaps not Israel or any other country and give back most of the West Bank to Palestine. Gaza they should invade and wipe Hamas out... once that is done only will Gaza have peace.
Reply 190
Original post by sherlllll


This sorry case reminds me of a similar controversy centering around a female IDF soldier Eden Abergil that you may have heard about; here's the link, I'm sure you'll find it equally distasteful.


Thanks.

I hadn't seen this and no longer seek similar examples out as they are just depressing. Trying to be objective when you realise this sort of thing is endemic in the IDF is difficult. If it was indeed reported in the israeli press, they deserve credit for doing so.
Reply 191
Original post by CODKING
So the whole world condemns what israel is doing and you want to twist that into israel is somehow the victim? Why try and loop on something that is so starkly clear? That seems to be the key characteristic of all the jewish/zionist/non-jewish zionist posters on here; never admit anything in response to a question. If you have done wrong, just own up to it and perhaps realise there is actually credibility in doing so. This blind refusal to concede anything isn’t debating; it’s stonewalling.

Question for you:

Why do you think is it always America that vetoes in favour of Israel?


mate, I know I have already told you this but you seem to have gotten even worse:

for your own sake, stop using massive colourful text! Obviously you are free to keep doing it if you wish, but im telling you this because it makes you look like an idiot. it is the equivilant of someone POSTING LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME WHEN THEY WANT TO MAKE A POINT. everytime I read one of your posts its like you are screaming at me through the computer. No one else on this board is doing it, from both sides of the debate, so why do you feel the need?

It doesnt add anything to your argument, in fact it takes away from it.

if you are just going to reply by using more giant red and blue text then whatever, your call, but believe me when I say it makes you look terrible.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by CODKING
So the whole world condemns what israel is doing and you want to twist that into israel is somehow the victim? Why try and loop on something that is so starkly clear? That seems to be the key characteristic of all the jewish/zionist/non-jewish zionist posters on here; never admit anything in response to a question. If you have done wrong, just own up to it and perhaps realise there is actually credibility in doing so. This blind refusal to concede anything isn’t debating; it’s stonewalling.

Question for you:

Why do you think is it always America that vetoes in favour of Israel?


I'm seriously sick of the straw man arguments used by the pro-Palestine side on here. It's no wonder some are no longer posting here. I didn't twist it into Israel being the victim nor did I try to. I acknowledge that Israel has done things wrong, my problem in this instance is the refusal for the international community to condemn the Arab role played in the entire conflict and the repercussions of that.

I have already answered the last question you asked before, try reading. Respond if you want but you're not getting a reply. Feel free to take that how you like but I'm done with discussing this conflict on TSR.
Original post by CODKING
So the whole world condemns what israel is doing and you want to twist that into israel is somehow the victim? Why try and loop on something that is so starkly clear? That seems to be the key characteristic of all the jewish/zionist/non-jewish zionist posters on here; never admit anything in response to a question. If you have done wrong, just own up to it and perhaps realise there is actually credibility in doing so. This blind refusal to concede anything isn’t debating; it’s stonewalling.

Question for you:

Why do you think is it always America that vetoes in favour of Israel?


Must you always embolden, colour and increase the size of your own text and that of the person you are quoting? It doesn't make your argument appear any better and is dammed annoying when you do it in every post.
Reply 194
Original post by thisisnew
I'm seriously sick of the straw man arguments used by the pro-Palestine side on here. It's no wonder some are no longer posting here. I didn't twist it into Israel being the victim nor did I try to. I acknowledge that Israel has done things wrong, my problem in this instance is the refusal for the international community to condemn the Arab role played in the entire conflict and the repercussions of that.

I have already answered the last question you asked before, try reading. Respond if you want but you're not getting a reply. Feel free to take that how you like but I'm done with discussing this conflict on TSR.


Again with the strawman!

Again with the kindly proving a point I wasn’t making!
Reply 195
For all my font size/colour detractors out there, I use them to highlight EXACTLY what someone has said and my response to it.

It has cut down dramatically the endless “I didn’t say that” and “didn’t you even read what I said?” posts from the jewish/zionist/non-jewish zionists. Oh, and it also serves to highlight to the casual observer what they can expect by way of personal insults and other putdowns if they dare to question your inviolate view of the conflict.
Original post by CODKING
Again with the strawman!

Again with the kindly proving a point I wasn’t making!


Again with the straw man? What are you talking about? You're the one who based your entire post upon a position in the argument which I don't hold.
Has anyone here watched 'The Promise'? What did you think? Is the way the Jewish state of Israel treats the Palestinians as second class citizens really the best way of dealing with the situation?

I don't know much about the situation of Israel/Palestine, so you will have to bear with me but these are my thoughts based upon what I do know:

My own thoughts are that state violence and coercion create more issues than they solve. The Arabs will continue to behave like terrorists so long as they are not able to reoccupy their land and live peacefully among the Jewish settlers. I do not think there would not be issues of violent conflict. In fact, the way people live there at the moment, it is in constant fear of terrorism which is feeded precisely by fear, aggression and prejudice. The state ought really to be secular (given the issue should recognise the individual rights of all citizens (regardless of ethnicity or religion) equally; the Jewish settlers should not have the ability to freely terrorise and physically harm Arab residents as they do at present.

In short, my solution would be for Israel to ultimately open up their borders to Palestine.
(edited 13 years ago)


The Occupied West Bank - A Palestinian farmer reacts as he inspects his field which was damaged by Jewish settlers who cut down olive trees in the village of Qasra, south of the West Bank city of Nablus, on February 20, 2011


The Occupied West Bank - A Palestinian woman holds a burnt mattress as she surveys the damage caused by Jewish settlers who threw a petrol bomb into her house overnight in the West bank village of Hiwwara near Nablus March 1, 2011. Israeli settlers damaged houses and cars in two Palestinian villages on Tuesday, witnesses said.

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