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The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III

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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    Equally if Hamas really wanted to reduce the amount of civilian deaths in Gaza, they would not hide their weapons in civilian areas, but then that would not help them create the narrative they hoping to create.
    As a person who is somewhat new to this debate, could you please direct me to an independently verified source that attests to Hamas deliberately hiding weapons in civilian areas so that Israel bombs Palestinians?

    I know this is something the Israeli military have asserted, but I'd like to think we are not naive enough to wholeheartedly accept whatever the Israeli government or military claim.

    In their most recent press release, Amnesty International stated:

    Israeli air strikes have targeted civilian homes in Gaza on the basis that they are the family homes of “Hamas operatives”, according to statements by the Israeli military, destroying the homes after warning the families to leave. However, in several such cases no evidence has emerged to indicate that the alleged “Hamas operatives” were inside the homes at the time of the attack, that the homes were being used to store munitions, or otherwise were being used for military purposes.

    “Unless the Israeli authorities can provide specific information to show how a home is being used to make an effective contribution to military actions, deliberately attacking civilian homes constitutes a war crime and also amounts to collective punishment against the families,” said Philip Luther.
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    (Original post by Afghan Warrior)
    Hey guys, check this:
    On every note you have write 'FREE PALESTINE' on it. The money will go around and hopefully the more people who do it the more people will see it on their notes. Spread the message like wildfire!!! #freepalestine
    Please also add 'End zionist occupation' to it.
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    From the ruins, Tal Habib will be rocked!
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    (Original post by economist2)
    So what?Terrorists take hostages.Does'nt mean you can kill the hostages.Its morally wrong.I'm not stupid.Just human.

    That last post of yours was just absurd.Using Sympathy to stop bombings?People and children are dying you know.And getting injured from an explosion aint like a cut.People lose limbs.
    "hostages"? what is this stopping a robbery? those scumbags are firing rockets at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. So its morally right to have Israeli civilians killed (if it werent for the airforce Israelis would have been killed in the dozens by now) in the name of saving Palestinian civilians? "just human" zzzz you're as moral as throwing a fat guy in front of a train in order to save someone else.

    Yes, sympathy. If it weren't for civilian casualties, they wouldn't have the UN security council demanding a ceasefire despite the continuous rocket attacks.
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    (Original post by Enoxial)





    The reason so many civilians are dying is because Hamas are using them as human shields!
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    (Original post by gortz1o1)
    The reason so many civilians are dying is because Hamas are using them as human shields!


    This makes me so sad. Human shields you say? It's a ghetto for starters and one of the most populated areas on Earth. They have no where to hide. You should be sad.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    This makes me so sad. Human shields you say? It's a ghetto for starters and one of the most populated areas on Earth. They have no where to hide. You should be sad.
    So you're telling me that because it's "one of the most populated areas on Earth" and "They have no where to hide" is a valid excuse for forcing civilians onto rooftops so that Israel would bomb the civilians. Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza, Hamas is trying to maximise them to make Israel seem the bad guy.
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    (Original post by gortz1o1)
    So you're telling me that because it's "one of the most populated areas on Earth" and "They have no where to hide" is a valid excuse for forcing civilians onto rooftops so that Israel would bomb the civilians. Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza, Hamas is trying to maximise them to make Israel seem the bad guy.
    Completely agree!

    Gaza started firing rockets first. Now, it can't stand that it's losing against Israel, once Israel has started retaliating. Not to mention, even Obama (who, let's face it, hasn't been very 'pro Israel') stated that Israel has the right to defend itself.

    Israel is getting rid of an evil that the 'international community' and the other Arab states don't have the balls to.

    Why has no Arab state in proximity to Gaza opened its borders for refugees as of the time when the conflict began? Why hasn't there been any military aid sent to help out Gaza? Sure, people can 'condemn' the actions, but other than that, the fact is even Arab states supporting Palestine want Hamas out.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    Completely agree!

    Gaza started firing rockets first. Now, it can't stand that it's losing against Israel, once Israel has started retaliating. Not to mention, even Obama (who, let's face it, hasn't been very 'pro Israel') stated that Israel has the right to defend itself.
    The Palestinians were always losing against the Israelis. From day one. How could they stand a chance against the greatest recipient of American military aid?

    Of course Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend itself. But what the Israelis is doing is not retaliation! The Jewish state was created in a land that was at peace and they bought war onto it. They won the war against the Arabs but that doesn't mean they could keep on expanding and building settlements outside their rightful land. They have done that - clearly they are not satisfied with what they have. They are the ones still at war. Without Hamas doing its dirty work (firing rockets that kill no one) the Israelis would have the nerve to expand their Jewish state illegally.

    (Original post by miavdbt)
    Israel is getting rid of an evil that the 'international community' and the other Arab states don't have the balls to.

    Why has no Arab state in proximity to Gaza opened its borders for refugees as of the time when the conflict began? Why hasn't there been any military aid sent to help out Gaza? Sure, people can 'condemn' the actions, but other than that, the fact is even Arab states supporting Palestine want Hamas out.
    The Arab states are playing whore to the US. Who wants the anger of the US? The day some Arab state supply the Palestinians with military aid the day they would be cut off from the international community. Look at Iran for starters. They clearly have no nukes while Israel has enough nukes to bomb Iran back to stone age. Still because of its open support to the Palestinian cause they are being pictured as an aggressor while Israel is the real aggressor with nukes that could target any place in the Middle East.

    When the Muslim Brotherhood had power in Egypt they opened up their borders. They sent their PM to Palestine to show their support. What happened to the Muslim Brotherhood?

    Also it will be playing to Israeli music for the Palestinians to leave their ghettos. Not only would they be leaving their homes but that would allow the Jewish state to expand right up to their rivers and that too illegally.
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    (Original post by gortz1o1)
    So you're telling me that because it's "one of the most populated areas on Earth" and "They have no where to hide" is a valid excuse for forcing civilians onto rooftops so that Israel would bomb the civilians. Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza, Hamas is trying to maximise them to make Israel seem the bad guy.


    Wow, so you mean the children and women killed were forced by Hamas to die?
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Without Hamas doing its dirty work (firing rockets that kill no one) the Israelis would have the nerve to expand their Jewish state illegally.
    I disagree that Hamas's aim is to prevent the expansion of the Jewish state illegally. That might be it, partly. If you've read their charter, they call for the destruction of Israel and jews. The reason why their rockets kill no one, is because they can't afford better ones. They fire rockets which may or may not hit Israel, which may or may not hit their own. They also brainwash their young, which if you youtube Hamas children's tv, you will find. They're disgusting.

    Ultimately, they're terrorists which have yet to come knocking on your door. Just because right now they keep their terrorists acts within the Middle East, it's easy to sympathize with them. I wonder what'll happen when they pull something similar to 9/11 in Europe or the US again, whether the world will still call them freedom fighters and martyrs. They won't yet, though. Right now their 'game' is to be seen as innocent victims of the evil zionist Israelis. And they're selling it really well.

    As for your other points, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I believe that no other state wants Hamas to gain power, as they're extremists and a terrorist organization. This is primarily why no other Arab state has intervened, not because of fear of what the US will do, especially now under the Obama administration which is less than Israel friendly.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Wow, so you mean the children and women killed were forced by Hamas to die?
    They're idiots. Israel has been found to lie numerous times. Just search about the Samouni family massacre back in 2008/09. See for yourself. Also the UN caught them lying about the school they dropped white phosphorus on, when they justified killing people using it as shelter by claiming hamas stashes rockets there. It just requires a few minutes.
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    (Original post by DeemzBeamz)
    They're idiots. Israel has been found to lie numerous times. Just search about the Samouni family massacre back in 2008/09. See for yourself. Also the UN caught them lying about the school they dropped white phosphorus on, when they justified killing people using it as shelter by claiming hamas stashes rockets there. It just requires a few minutes.
    Yeah right, so Israel spends $8.5 BILLION and risks all sorts of things from rockets on Tel Aviv to international condemnation... all because they want to kill 89 civilians? and no matter what mistakes the Israeli forces make here and there, your terrorists are the ones who started the rocket fire.

    BTW no one, and I mean no one, lies more than the Palestinians. Pallywood is a big thing. The techniques Hamas uses are nothing new in the Middle East - as much as I hate the Assad regime, no one can deny that there too opposition fighters operate within the civilian population in order to get sympathy.
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    Hamas rockets pounded Bethlehem and Hebron yesterday, all into Palestinian populated areas. Let's see if people actually care... lol
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    The Palestinians were always losing against the Israelis. From day one. How could they stand a chance against the greatest recipient of American military aid?
    When is day one? the conflict until 1988 was always a regional Arab-Israeli conflict. Only in the 70s did the media start loosely using the term "Palestinian people" and only in 1988 the idea of establishing a state in the West Bank and Gaza came about. Prior to that it was a regional war, and these people were Jordanians and Egyptians.

    Oh please, don't even bother with the aid excuse. The U.S. government gives the Palestinian Authority $500 million a year. Moreover, the Palestinians have received 25 times more aid per capita than what the U.S. spent on rebuilding Europe after WWII (the Marshall Plan). They are the biggest welfare parasites on planet earth.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Wow, so you mean the children and women killed were forced by Hamas to die?
    Yes!
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    I disagree that Hamas's aim is to prevent the expansion of the Jewish state illegally. That might be it, partly. If you've read their charter, they call for the destruction of Israel and jews. The reason why their rockets kill no one, is because they can't afford better ones. They fire rockets which may or may not hit Israel, which may or may not hit their own. They also brainwash their young, which if you youtube Hamas children's tv, you will find. They're disgusting.

    Ultimately, they're terrorists which have yet to come knocking on your door. Just because right now they keep their terrorists acts within the Middle East, it's easy to sympathize with them. I wonder what'll happen when they pull something similar to 9/11 in Europe or the US again, whether the world will still call them freedom fighters and martyrs. They won't yet, though. Right now their 'game' is to be seen as innocent victims of the evil zionist Israelis. And they're selling it really well.

    As for your other points, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I believe that no other state wants Hamas to gain power, as they're extremists and a terrorist organization. This is primarily why no other Arab state has intervened, not because of fear of what the US will do, especially now under the Obama administration which is less than Israel friendly.


    Well I'm not sympathizing with Hamas or any other terrorist organization - I'm sympathizing with the Palestinians - the innocent people. They have no choice but to side with Hamas, don't they? Don't they?

    Its just like the Israel-Iran nuke controversy. Israel wants Iran to be nuke-free because it believes that Iran is a rogue state. But Israel has nukes that could bomb Iran back to stone age. Israel points out that Hamas wants to destroy the Jewish state but at the same time it keeps on expanding and settlement building and its they who want Israel to expand to the Euphrates on one side. So don't you think if there was no "terrorist" organization Israel would have stolen the entire Gaza strip?

    I think you can't admit that the innocent Palestinians are the victims. You accuse Hamas of painting that picture. Hamas is just a manifestation of the anger of the Palestinians people. If Israel hadn't have its support from the West, it'd they who'll be called the terrorists. Don't you think?
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    When is day one? the conflict until 1988 was always a regional Arab-Israeli conflict. Only in the 70s did the media start loosely using the term "Palestinian people" and only in 1988 the idea of establishing a state in the West Bank and Gaza came about. Prior to that it was a regional war, and these people were Jordanians and Egyptians.

    Oh please, don't even bother with the aid excuse. The U.S. government gives the Palestinian Authority $500 million a year. Moreover, the Palestinians have received 25 times more aid per capita than what the U.S. spent on rebuilding Europe after WWII (the Marshall Plan). They are the biggest welfare parasites on planet earth.


    Then its high time the US gives the Palestinians military aid to defend themselves.

    What do you mean? Do you mean that its the Palestinians who are demanding an illegal state? The Arabs were once part of the Ottoman Empire and they were defeated by the British, who carved out a land for the Jews to settle. The Palestinians didn't settle there - they were there from time immemorial. Its the Jews who came in large numbers. Its very easy for a Jew to gain citizenship in Israel.
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    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2736435
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