[AverageExcellence]

Wheres the 'am i good enough to get into manchester metropolitan' thread when you need it?

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by M^2012)
I got 6 A*s 4 As and a B at GCSE, which is probably not too good, compared to people who go to Cambridge. I'm predicted A* Maths, A Further Maths and A* Physics at A2, and at AS, I'm predicted aaaa, with the extra AS being Geography.

GCSEs don't matter much for Cambridge. Your A2 predictions are actually quite good, not everyone is getting straight A*s, you should certainly get an interview at Cambridge.

I however messed up FP1 in January, getting 79/100 UMS (a B), due to loads of silly little mistakes, which obviously isn't ideal for somebody wanting to do maths. I resat it this summer, and we'll see how that went. I got 100 UMS in Core 1, but I'd imagine that isn't too hard to do. This summer, I have a feeling I messed Core 2 up, due to a mid exam panic.

Cambridge are happy accepting candidates with a few retakes provided these seem to be exceptions rather than the norm. If your FP1 comes back better and you intend to retake your C2 then you should be ok.

By the time I apply, I should have Gold DofE, I just recently took Grade 6 clarinet (no idea if I passed or not yet), I do various voluntary things and I was in a Cathedral Choir when I was younger.

To be completely honest these are all going to be fairly irrelevant to your application - Russel group unis want pure mathematical ability and interest in your subject. Have you done any extra reading about maths, attended/ing any lecture courses, workshops or summer schools, taken part in the UKMT (and got to the later rounds?)?

I'm not intending to apply for Cambridge.. I was going to go for maths at Durham and Manchester as my two top choices, but I'm basically asking 'should I apply for Cambridge?' and also 'am I good enough for Durham/Manchester?'

Have you thought about Warwick? They're about second best. Oxford is easier than Cambridge to get into for maths as well (although the course is not as good, but is much easier going) but they do focus on GCSEs more.

I'd say given your predicted grades it would be worth applying to Cambridge, Warwick, or both. You're pretty certain to get an interview, and actually quite likely to get an offer. Both Warwick and Cambridge do require STEP though, so there is heightened risk of missing your offer.

You're easily good enough for Durham and Manchester.

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by Groat)
Wait, what?! 74/75 got you 89/100 UMS?

I thought Edexcel were bad making 72/75 the requirement for 90/100 UMS.

It was for a January retake, so most candidates taking it were a) taking it for the second time, and currently studying for FMaths and b) only taking that module, and so able to focus entirely on it.

Might also have been a slightly easier paper.

Genuinely happened, I was as sceptical as you when I found out. Her maths was her worst grade because of it, she got A*s in FMaths, Physics and Chemistry no problem but only got an A in maths.

It's because they have to give the same proportion in each boundary as the previous papers (rounding so that slightly more than last time actually get it each time) and the raw mark standard was, for the reasons above, so high that they filled the A* quota with just those getting full raw marks.


Obviously this is an extreme case, but the tendency for things of this sort, even if less severe, to happen was part of the reason my school gave for not letting people take January modules, even though we'd easily covered all of C4 by the end of November. (The other reason was that it interrupted our study of other papers)

[M^2012]

Have you done any extra reading about maths, attended/ing any lecture courses, workshops or summer schools, taken part in the UKMT (and got to the later rounds?)?

I'm a member of the SYMs (Society of Young Mathematicians), which doesn't really mean much on its own, as there's no entry requirements, but it's evidence of my interest in maths.

I've done the maths challenge every year since year 7. I've had Gold and Best in School a few times, but I've never got into later rounds.

I have a mainly free summer this year (for the first time in a few years), so i intend to do a lot of that kind of thing then, and also perhaps try and teach myself a bit of programming, as a semi-related thing that sounds interesting.

(Original post by The Mr Z)
Have you thought about Warwick? They're about second best. Oxford is easier than Cambridge to get into for maths as well (although the course is not as good, but is much easier going) but they do focus on GCSEs more.
I'd say given your predicted grades it would be worth applying to Cambridge, Warwick, or both. You're pretty certain to get an interview, and actually quite likely to get an offer. Both Warwick and Cambridge do require STEP though, so there is heightened risk of missing your offer.

Yeah, I've thought about Warwick. I'm not as happy to go to a campus, but, it being so good, I'd still be delighted to go there, of course. STEP is the reason why I'm tempted to go for Manchester and Durham, as they don't seem to require it, but it'd be a nice challenge I suppose (if so much didn't depend on it).

I shall force myself to consider Warwick/Cambridge then, I suppose as long as I keep the other choices reasonable, then even if I fall short of the mark, I've only wasted one choice.

You're easily good enough for Durham and Manchester.

Thanks! It's hard to know what to apply for when you see people boasting about the 5 A2s they're doing that are all apparently "easy", haha. I shall see how the ASs go of course, there're presumably quite a good estimate of how realistic my predicted grades are!

Thanks for the help

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by M^2012)
I'm a member of the SYMs (Society of Young Mathematicians), which doesn't really mean much on its own, as there's no entry requirements, but it's evidence of my interest in maths.

I've done the maths challenge every year since year 7. I've had Gold and Best in School a few times, but I've never got into later rounds.

I have a mainly free summer this year (for the first time in a few years), so i intend to do a lot of that kind of thing then, and also perhaps try and teach myself a bit of programming, as a semi-related thing that sounds interesting.

These are more like it. Don't worry too much about getting to the later rounds of the UKMT, not many do, they're mainly for selection for the national maths challenge team.

Yeah, I've thought about Warwick. I'm not as happy to go to a campus, but, it being so good, I'd still be delighted to go there, of course. STEP is the reason why I'm tempted to go for Manchester and Durham, as they don't seem to require it, but it'd be a nice challenge I suppose (if so much didn't depend on it).

I shall force myself to consider Warwick/Cambridge then, I suppose as long as I keep the other choices reasonable, then even if I fall short of the mark, I've only wasted one choice.

If you're not a fan of STEP (Warwick's STEP offers are quite a bit lower than Cambridge's) then perhaps look at Oxford - they don't require STEP. They do however have a pre-interview test and look at GCSEs and that more as their way of deciding who to interview, and interview fewer in general.

Thanks! It's hard to know what to apply for when you see people boasting about the 5 A2s they're doing that are all apparently "easy", haha. I shall see how the ASs go of course, there're presumably quite a good estimate of how realistic my predicted grades are!

Thanks for the help

TSR doesn't accurately represent reality.

[Jordan B]

Because Cambridge look at 3 most relevant a level UMS marks...would they consider maths or physics more relevant to medicine?

[kitkat19]

physics^

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by Jordan B)
Because Cambridge look at 3 most relevant a level UMS marks...would they consider maths or physics more relevant to medicine?

If your 4th subject is also relevant they'll look at that too, especially in sciences, they just won't pay much attention to an irrelevant 4th subject.

For Medicine maths comes before physics though.

[Chief Wiggum]

(Original post by The Mr Z)
For Medicine maths comes before physics though.

How do you know? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious because I've never come across an "official" answer to that question before.)

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
How do you know? (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious because I've never come across an "official" answer to that question before.)

The amount of maths needed in the medicine course, its certainly more relevant than physics (that said, when is maths not everywhere?). I'm fairly sure I've heard that officially somewhere as well, but can't think where it was.

That said I can't find it with a quick trawl through the usual places, so I might withdraw that. (That said I can't seem to find anything which implies Biology might be preferred to either of those, but IIRC for some colleges biology is a required subject along with chemistry, so )

[M^2012]

(Original post by The Mr Z)
If you're not a fan of STEP (Warwick's STEP offers are quite a bit lower than Cambridge's) then perhaps look at Oxford - they don't require STEP. They do however have a pre-interview test and look at GCSEs and that more as their way of deciding who to interview, and interview fewer in general.

I looked at a past Oxford pre interview test on the internet a while ago, and most of the questions seemed relatively do-able, but as you say, it's harder to get an interview. I'll keep thinking about it, but it's good to know that I have a chance.

Thanks for your help!

[Colmans]

(Original post by Jordan B)
Because Cambridge look at 3 most relevant a level UMS marks...would they consider maths or physics more relevant to medicine?

The answer is both.

In the latest guidance there are three ranking scores: best three, three sciences and four sciences. Arts use best three, Sciences look at both your best of any three sciences and your average for all four (if you did four).

[Veni Vidi Fugi]

I quote Dr Matthew Parry on my open day who said "we don't want well-rounded people, we want geeks". He made it very clear that extra curricular activities don't really matter at all. The other quote is "we don't want a second-rate historian who happens to play the flute" (that's oxford). They like to see that you can manage your time, but that's all. Get your personal statement sorted, make sure it's relevant to you, and what YOU think, and if your results are good, definitely go for it.

best of luck

[TheNamelessGrace]

Can I ask how much significance Cambridge give to retakes?

I have A*A*AB at A-level, in English, Biology, Chemistry and Maths respectively. In Maths, at AS, I averaged 89%, and although I initially dropped it, I was forced to continue it on to A2 because at the time I was applying for Medicine. I hated the classes and received C, C, E in C3, C4 and M2 respectively, resulting in a B overall.
I have retaken my A2 Maths units in the hope that I can bump it up to an A [I'm not overly hopeful though].

The thing is that I want to apply for English, but my old Head of Year, who is writing my reference, said that Cambridge will see my Cs and E and as a result I will be immediately disadvantaged, despite the fact that they're in Maths. She also said that if I don't get higher modular scores, and therefore a higher grade, in my retakes, it will disadvantage me further, again despite the fact that it's in regards to Maths.

I really don't know what to think, because she's making me doubt applying under the guise that my Maths result will affect how they view me academically, even though I want to apply for English.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by TheNamelessGrace)
Can I ask how much significance Cambridge give to retakes?

I have A*A*AB at A-level, in English, Biology, Chemistry and Maths respectively. In Maths, at AS, I averaged 89%, and although I initially dropped it, I was forced to continue it on to A2 because at the time I was applying for Medicine. I hated the classes and received C, C, E in C3, C4 and M2 respectively, resulting in a B overall.
I have retaken my A2 Maths units in the hope that I can bump it up to an A [I'm not overly hopeful though].

The thing is that I want to apply for English, but my old Head of Year, who is writing my reference, said that Cambridge will see my Cs and E and as a result I will be immediately disadvantaged, despite the fact that they're in Maths. She also said that if I don't get higher modular scores, and therefore a higher grade, in my retakes, it will disadvantage me further, again despite the fact that it's in regards to Maths.

I really don't know what to think, because she's making me doubt applying under the guise that my Maths result will affect how they view me academically, even though I want to apply for English.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

General advice is that Cambridge are willing to accept candidates with a few retakes, as they understand candidates have bad days, if these are clearly exceptions to otherwise good grades. Taking that many retakes, and indeed having 3 consistently bad A2 modules in one subject, however, does not fit that criteria.

However good news - Cambridge only look at your 3 best subjects for arts/humanities courses. And given that maths has no relevance to English, they're unlikely to care in the slightest that you did badly at it.

In which case your grades actually look like A*A*A, and importantly the A* is in English.

Obviously more essay subjects would be preferable but not essential, so you're application is still certainly strong enough to get an interview and possibly an offer (though there are a lot of other factors)

[tommm]

Apply! All they're looking for is mathematical ability/potential, and if you have enough of it you should get an offer.

(Original post by The Nturtanyr)
Problem is, regardless of the 'standards' it's portrayed and employed, it seems I should've have done a lot more, such as take part in some extra-curricular activities; command little kids to do my bidding in some scouting expedition or whatever. Do the DofE that came and went. Actually LIKE sports. And all this to stand out?

Nobody will give a flying **** about any of this.

[TheNamelessGrace]

(Original post by The Mr Z)
General advice is that Cambridge are willing to accept candidates with a few retakes, as they understand candidates have bad days, if these are clearly exceptions to otherwise good grades. Taking that many retakes, and indeed having 3 consistently bad A2 modules in one subject, however, does not fit that criteria.

However good news - Cambridge only look at your 3 best subjects for arts/humanities courses. And given that maths has no relevance to English, they're unlikely to care in the slightest that you did badly at it.

In which case your grades actually look like A*A*A, and importantly the A* is in English.

Obviously more essay subjects would be preferable but not essential, so you're application is still certainly strong enough to get an interview and possibly an offer (though there are a lot of other factors)

Thank you for your input! I, too, thought that I wouldn't be judged on my Maths grade, but my teacher said it 'put a question mark on me academically' [even though I've been perfect in my academics up until A2 Maths ]; surely if at interview they deemed me good enough to study English they wouldn't take into account my grade in an unrelated subject?

I think on your advice I will take a punt and apply; thanks again for your perspective on the matter .

[ChrisE2]

(Original post by TheNamelessGrace)
Thank you for your input! I, too, thought that I wouldn't be judged on my Maths grade, but my teacher said it 'put a question mark on me academically' [even though I've been perfect in my academics up until A2 Maths ]; surely if at interview they deemed me good enough to study English they wouldn't take into account my grade in an unrelated subject?

I think on your advice I will take a punt and apply; thanks again for your perspective on the matter .

You could always "forget" you did Maths, problem solved!
Another bit of more serious advice is to work out the ums you need for an A, calculate the ums needed in exams and then only retake the exams you can achieve the highest ums (meaning you wont need to retake all of them).

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by ChrisE2)
You could always "forget" you did Maths, problem solved!
Another bit of more serious advice is to work out the ums you need for an A, calculate the ums needed in exams and then only retake the exams you can achieve the highest ums (meaning you wont need to retake all of them).

No you can't. For a start it will be certificated alongside your other A-levels and they get those direct from the exam boards, secondly you're required to put down all your grades - missing one is grounds for them to withdraw the offer. (And they very likely will if they find they've been lied to)
Also your school will likely mention it in the reference and the game will be up straight away.

Given Cambridge ask for the UMS of EVERY module, retaking selectively to get up a grade will be fruitless too - they'll still see all the low grades, and all the marks from the first round, so it won't fool them at all.


Honesty is the only policy with uni applications, no one ever gets away with falsifying things. And if by some miracle you did, and got onto a course you weren't good enough for, you'd just be doing yourself a disservice and would get a low grade or drop out.

[ChrisE2]

(Original post by The Mr Z)
No you can't. For a start it will be certificated alongside your other A-levels and they get those direct from the exam boards, secondly you're required to put down all your grades - missing one is grounds for them to withdraw the offer. (And they very likely will if they find they've been lied to)
Also your school will likely mention it in the reference and the game will be up straight away.

Given Cambridge ask for the UMS of EVERY module, retaking selectively to get up a grade will be fruitless too - they'll still see all the low grades, and all the marks from the first round, so it won't fool them at all.


Honesty is the only policy with uni applications, no one ever gets away with falsifying things. And if by some miracle you did, and got onto a course you weren't good enough for, you'd just be doing yourself a disservice and would get a low grade or drop out.

Of course Cambridge look at every module grade BUT if could achieve an A grade and get very high module marks in a few resits I would have thought that gaining a better module mark in a few resits would be better than taking every resit and gaining a lower average mark in all the resits. Cambridge will be looking at improvements in modules and to what degree that improvement that has occurred,

and by the way the comment in regards to forgetting which I must emphasise was within inverted commas was portrayed as a joke, and also why I began the next sentence with the phrase "Another bit of more serious advice".