[cruel3a]

That's true but during your first application round (sept.) you will not have any grades and if you are able to get an internship at that time...it's done... :-)

[Pitoburo]

I'm a 2nd year MSc Finance student and I'm Italian, so my 2 cents.

If you want to work for an investment bank, Bocconi is second only to Oxbridge/LSE.
There're a lot of other very good universities (St Gallen, Warwick, SSE, HEC, etc..) that are equally strong in London but not equally strong in Milan.

You can be a very brilliant student, but a job in London is not guaranteed. As I explained last year, there are thousands of variables that affect your chances.
So, IMHO, having Milan as a backup option is not a bad idea. I know a lot of students who didn't land a summer internship in London, but managed to find nice internships in Milan (JPM M&A, JPM IR Sales, Barclays M&A, SG Eq Der Sales, Unicredit Eq Structured Products Trading, BNP Trading, BNP CM, Intesa Econometrics Research, etc..). On the other hand, some people who attended UK 2nd tier universities (e.g. Cass) landed only mediocre positions in minor companies/banks.
Obviously, if you want to work in London and you don't care about the salary/prestige, an UK university may be better.

Regarding the grades, as cruel3a said, you won't have any grade during the 1st year apps. Overall, my impression, it's that grades impact only partially. If you have at least 25/26 (the minimun required to get 100/110), all doors are open and your actual grades aren't so important (particularly in London). I know a lot of just above average students with London BB offers and top students that struggle: grades are important if you want to do a PhD (I think that there're no more than 4-5 students interested in this) or if you want to befriend a "connected" professor.
Clearly, if you manage to secure a summer internship the first year, grades are a minor problem.

Regarding teaching, I prefer a nice no comment. The MSc Finance is an academic mess designed only to fill banks/insurance companies/etc.. with Bocconi graduates. There're some very good professors (particularly among the under 40-45 ones), but the "old guard" is a mix of "networkers" and Economics-turned-Finance professor that will assume a perfect knowledge of econometrics and that will hate you (using their words, finance students are idiots that will end up doing stupid manual works [M&A at GS == stupid manual work]). For many people this is OK, for someone no...

(Original post by Tesero)
Hey guys!
I'm graduating this summer from University of Trento, in Italy. I'm interested in pursuing my career in an IB, especially in the IB division.
I was accepted by Cass (MSc Finance) and by Bocconi (MSc Finance). I'm still waiting from Warwick, but there I asked for Accounting and Finance, since I went to visit the school and they made it pretty clear that my application was weak for the MSc Finance...

Here a summary of what I think:

Bocconi PRO:
- better academic reputation
- 2 years of studies -> possibility of summer internship
- familiar contest, I'm italian and I'll stay in Italy...
- still good chance to get an interview with some decent IB .

Bocconi CONS:
- 2 years of studies -> in Italy we end up high school when we are 19, plus 5 year of university, it means I'll be 2 years late compared to many applicants...
- I have no idea of how good is Bocconi's network outside Italy. Here it is very strong...
- I don't really like Milan, but this is a very weak CON I know

Cass PRO:
- it is located in London -> great city and the final place where really master my English. I spent one year in NY state during high school and I did a 6month Erasmus period in Ireland, so it is not a problem for me to travel.
- it takes just one year to complete it
- it seems to have a good network

Cass CONS:
- the academic reputation for MSc Finance doesn't seem very good
- I won't be able to do a summer internship and since I didn't do it during my undergraduate degree I'll have a big flaw in my CV...
- It'll close many Job opportunities in Italy, since it is known in the financial sector, but not in the others. Here Bocconi is known everywhere...
- I need further information about the degree recognition if I decide to move back to Italy at some point...

I underlined the point where I don't know if what I wrote is correct or not...

What do you think? I didn't take into consideration the cost because I think it'll be pretty similar (cass+ 1 year living in london or bocconi + 2 years living in milan)...

Sorry for the grammar mistakes that I'm sure are in the post!

[Tesero]

Thanks guys!!

[Zweihander]

There was a guy from Bocconi last term who came and spent a term at Warwick as part of Erasmus. So you could go to Bocconi and still get Warwick on your CV.

[cruel3a]

Yes, there is an exchange agreement between Bocconi and Warwick... each year 3 people from the undergraduate program and 1 from the MSc in Finance

[moon44]

believe me, forget to be the best bocconi msc finance student who goes to warwick...

[cruel3a]

Right... even if Warwick is not the best destination possible... and I would personally prefer Thailand or Philippines to that :-)

[Tesero]

Very true!
Don't worry guys, I don't think to be that good or smart!

[TomFord]

(Original post by anfitrion)
Bocconi places well in London but in no way better than Warwick. The reason why someone may have met more Bocconi grads at ACs is because there were 183 students registered in Bocconi's MSc Finance alone last year. That's just a ridiculous amount of people all of which strongly encouraged by the uni to apply for London positions because there are almost no jobs in Italy.

Teaching at Bocconi is quite **** if you ask any international student (Italians think it's good because in other Italian unis it's even worse), but the 2 year degree is indeed an advantage since you have 2 tries at recruitment. However, many IBs still give you a summer internships even if you are doing a 1 year MSc -you start straight away or get a gap year if you actually get a ft offer), so I wouldn't say that's a dealmaker for Bocconi.

By the way, in this forum you are bound to find very badly informed people giving you advice -as you can see above-, so I suggest you to try more serious alternatives -like Wallstreetoasis- to help your decision making process.

completely disagree with everything that is written here.

bocconi places much better than warwick in FO positions. most of the guys from worwick i've met in IB were doing back office positions.
anfitrion id suggest you look at FO and you'll find the unbelievable truth - yes, bocconi is indeed better than warwick.

i agree teaching is crap for undergrad (that's probab what most international students have tried) but for the msc is good on average.

Oh btw forget about WSO, they dont know anything about europe.

[TomFord]

(Original post by Tesero)
I'm still quite curious how is possible that Bocconi takes 2 years to teach you what you need, when every university in U.K requires one year.
Do you think the program is more complex or more wide compared to the u.k MSc?

man just look at the websites. bocconi msc finance program is way more complex and wide. plus you have the adv of doing an exchange program abroad (if you avg's good)

also, it's not a matter of your undergrad degree. i've see a lot of students with non-italian undergrad struggling to grasp what is considered "basic" math and stat knowledge for the msc finance in bocconi.

[TomFord]

Personally, i think bocconi wins without doubt - compared to both warwick and cass.

+ i completely agree with what just said by cruel3a and pitoburo.

+ forget abt the exchange in the uk, go for much nicer places somewhere around the world

+ on a personal note, the impression i got from my IB is that if you're italian, then you're supposed to come from bocconi, no matter what. being italian and attending bocconi gives you a true edge.

[Pitoburo]

Completely agree with TomFord, although I'm a bit less enthuasiastic about Bocconi. But probably this depends on the different interests (he's into IBD, while I prefer quant jobs) and different success in securing a job in London.

MSc at Bocconi covers a wide array of topics and include also a 4-6 months master thesis.
Personally I think that it's not very well structured (there're too many core courses, you can't really specialise), but it can be very useful for someone who doesn't know what he/she actually wants do (and this is not uncommon in Italy).

And, regarding the exchange, UK is a stupid choice. The best options are US (high grades), an exotic place or a place where you can improve a 2nd/3rd/4th language.

So, if you're Italian, Bocconi MSc Finance is the best option unless:
- you've been admitted at Oxbridge/LSE/American Ivy
- you want to work in Paris, Frankfurt, etc..
- money is a problem and you don't have scholarships
- you want to do quant stuff (maybe Economics is better...)

[TomFord]

(Original post by Pitoburo)
too many core courses

definitely agree, particularly too many math/stat-related courses

(Original post by Pitoburo)
So, if you're Italian, Bocconi MSc Finance is the best option unless:
- you've been admitted at Oxbridge/LSE/American Ivy
- you want to work in Paris, Frankfurt, etc..
- money is a problem and you don't have scholarships
- you want to do quant stuff (maybe Economics is better...)

this

[moon44]

i completely agree with pitoburo.

imho the big difference with respect to uk/us teaching is that at bocconi learning methodology is really up to you... and this could shock a lot of non italians.

i mean: you will find a professor that is a master in his field, he will lecture (badly) and he will leave some books as a reference and that's it.
italians are more used to it, and some simply say: ok, i'll study my ass off till i understand this messy stuff. and, as a result, they're prepared.

some others will say "ok teaching at bocconi sucks, i don't understand anything"...

i do not agree about specialization... if you choose 4 elective courses you can really change your curriculum towards M&A or risk management for example... of course you are not at MBA Yale and you won't find "Fixed Income Trading in practice"

[dogfights]

Can you guys tell me how the MIM compares to the MSc Finance in terms of employability in IBD and consulting?

Thanks

P.s. at Bocconi that is

[cruel3a]

If you have a good CV, it doesn't make that big difference. I have met people coming from IM working at Deutsche Bank (IBD), Barclays Capital (Asset Management and Structuring), Goldman Sachs (IBD) and others that had interviews with UBS, Rothschild, etc.
So it does not make a big difference.
Obv if you are more into quant finance, you should work your ass off with the elective courses and it would be quite hard to explain during and interview why you had picked MIM and not Finance or Economics.
If you are more into Corporate Finance, you could easily reach interviews event if you are studying management, even if I think that it would be almost impossible/at least hard to secure a summer internship in IBD from the MIM because they don't do anything about corporate valuation during the first year...

Consulting:
if you want to reach the interview stage with McKinsey, Bain, BCG in Italy you must graduate with >=108. Reaching this mark is hard, no matter what you are studying, but it gets even more complicated if you are studying Finance at Bocconi. I hope that no one from MIM will read this, but I think there is no competition between the difficulty of the subjects, even if at MIM there are thousands of group works and everything that are a huge pain in the ass.
Said that, if you reach that mark and you have some international experiences, again, it does not make a big difference.

[TomFord]

(Original post by dogfights)
Can you guys tell me how the MIM compares to the MSc Finance in terms of employability in IBD and consulting?

Thanks

P.s. at Bocconi that is

depends. if you're a girl, than no problem, you'll find a ton of jobs waiting for you. if you're a guy, then it might be a bit more problematic come from mim rather than finance.
this applies to both corporate finance and trading

[xBillyBrownx]

Bocconi. I think it has a good reputation abroad as well (not completely sure). Good luck!

[moon44]

i agree with cruel3a, but it is not impossibile to secure a IBD internship from MIM, many banks ask very few technical questions... but of course i think it is pointless to join MIM if you want to do IBD... you must decide before your path.

another thing to underline: bocconi is very well know in london because the average italian bocconi student knows at start that there are no opportunities in italy only near to what you can find in london, so bocconians apply massively to London IBs. and of course, if you see an italian in canary wharf 99% he is from bocconi (in all the other italian universities a job in a bank is seen = cashier).

in france, germany, spain you may find equal or better teaching (and especially services...) but there's no such a concentration of finance-obsessed guys in only one university such as in bocconi and of course in Paris or Frankfurt you may find very good alternatives to London.

[cruel3a]

Well, if you hate math you may prefer to enroll in MIM than into Finance. You will be able to acquire the technical knowledge needed for interviews during the second year (if you take the right courses, sometimes only in italian) but, if you haven't studied companies valuation during the BSc, I am pretty sure that the MIM does not give you, during the first year, the skills that you need to get a FO position.
Obv, if you are a girl, good looking, you won't need to know how to valuate a ratchet clause...