Margaret Thatcher Milk Snatcher
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Original post by CHOPS3012
thatcher does NOT deserve a state funeral, the same way the royal wedding should not be funded by the taxpayer!
I would have thought Mrs Thatcher would be turning in her grave at the idea of the taxpayer shelling out for her funeral.
Although she doesn't like turning.
Original post by Xygort
Give me on good reason not to hate Thetcher
Give me one good reason to give you a reason.
Original post by JW92
'Professional' refers to more than the suited and booted. Doh! Talk about closed-minds.
Original post by Kateh86
And are you from the Midlands?! Take a wander around any desolated Mining Community of the Midlands and talk to a few people and you will see how much we like her.
Don't mind if I do...
When Thatcher got in, the NCB was losing millions at the time, so were most of the other nationalised industries, and the country had finally run out of money with which to subsidise them.
Oh yes, that was what we were thinking of - coal mining.
So upset by the whole deal are those people from desolate ex-coal mining towns such as New Ollerton (and I do mean desolate, since I used to live there by the way) and Clipstone in north Nottinghamshire, that they have just shown exactly how they feel about the Conservative party - they've just voted in a Conservative MP!!
Sherwood, the constituency in question was Labour since 1992 - perhaps they were fed up with Labour doing sod all there for the past 13 years.
Just FYI, Labour are not averse to contentious industry practices of their own - all you need to do is look at what's happened at Redcar Steel just recently, and I think if you check, Clipstone pit closed in 2003.
The Tories were honest, they knew nothing about building ships, building cars, or mining coal and didn’t feel it was their job to do so, even if the country could have afforded it (which it couldn't). So, they cut those uneconomic industries free to sink or swim. They sank, of course, because being nationalised there was absolutely no chance they would ever learn to swim.
Then they invited private (mostly foreign) investors who did know what they were doing to pick over the bones. The case for coal was pretty hopeless but for many other industries, the car industry for example, it was onwards to a glorious and, still to this day like never before, prosperous future.
Of course, it won't shut the unions up though, they're still calling for the railways to be renationalised nearly twenty years later. Many still claim that the unions destroyed the 1970s British car industry. Yet one look at the cars they were throwing together at the time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7q8lWEd-o) would have told you there was nothing left for the unions to do in furtherance of that cause/
(edited 13 years ago)
i highly doubt that if Thatcher was a man she would be hated to this extent.
Original post by marcusfox
Don't mind if I do...
When Thatcher got in, the NCB was losing millions at the time, so were most of the other nationalised industries, and the country had finally run out of money with which to subsidise them.
Oh yes, that was what we were thinking of - coal mining.
So upset by the whole deal are those people from desolate ex-coal mining towns such as New Ollerton (and I do mean desolate, since I used to live there by the way) and Clipstone in north Nottinghamshire, that they have just shown exactly how they feel about the Conservative party - they've just voted in a Conservative MP!!
Sherwood, the constituency in question was Labour since 1992 - perhaps they were fed up with Labour doing sod all there for the past 13 years.
Just FYI, Labour are not averse to contentious industry practices of their own - all you need to do is look at what's happened at Redcar Steel just recently, and I think if you check, Clipstone pit closed in 2003.
The Tories were honest, they knew nothing about building ships, building cars, or mining coal and didn’t feel it was their job to do so, even if the country could have afforded it (which it couldn't). So, they cut those uneconomic industries free to sink or swim. They sank, of course, because being nationalised there was absolutely no chance they would ever learn to swim.
Then they invited private (mostly foreign) investors who did know what they were doing to pick over the bones. The case for coal was pretty hopeless but for many other industries, the car industry for example, it was onwards to a glorious and, still to this day like never before, prosperous future.
Of course, it won't shut the unions up though, they're still calling for the railways to be renationalised nearly twenty years later. Many still claim that the unions destroyed the 1970s British car industry. Yet one look at the cars they were throwing together at the time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7q8lWEd-o) would have told you there was nothing left for the unions to do in furtherance of that cause/
When Thatcher got in, the NCB was losing millions at the time, so were most of the other nationalised industries, and the country had finally run out of money with which to subsidise them.
Oh yes, that was what we were thinking of - coal mining.
So upset by the whole deal are those people from desolate ex-coal mining towns such as New Ollerton (and I do mean desolate, since I used to live there by the way) and Clipstone in north Nottinghamshire, that they have just shown exactly how they feel about the Conservative party - they've just voted in a Conservative MP!!
Sherwood, the constituency in question was Labour since 1992 - perhaps they were fed up with Labour doing sod all there for the past 13 years.
Just FYI, Labour are not averse to contentious industry practices of their own - all you need to do is look at what's happened at Redcar Steel just recently, and I think if you check, Clipstone pit closed in 2003.
The Tories were honest, they knew nothing about building ships, building cars, or mining coal and didn’t feel it was their job to do so, even if the country could have afforded it (which it couldn't). So, they cut those uneconomic industries free to sink or swim. They sank, of course, because being nationalised there was absolutely no chance they would ever learn to swim.
Then they invited private (mostly foreign) investors who did know what they were doing to pick over the bones. The case for coal was pretty hopeless but for many other industries, the car industry for example, it was onwards to a glorious and, still to this day like never before, prosperous future.
Of course, it won't shut the unions up though, they're still calling for the railways to be renationalised nearly twenty years later. Many still claim that the unions destroyed the 1970s British car industry. Yet one look at the cars they were throwing together at the time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf7q8lWEd-o) would have told you there was nothing left for the unions to do in furtherance of that cause/
Clipstone was shut in the early 90's by British Coal, which is to say the British Government. In the early 90's the British government was tory and (even with thatcher no longer at the helm) ideologically committed to closing mines.
it was bought by a private company (RJB) and operated commercially till the coal ran out... then it closed again.
Clipstone closed (finally) cos the coal had been exhausted, not to satisfy an ideological whim. It swam. Being a finite resource the coal under clipstone was not going to last forever.
When the coal's gone, the pit closes - sources indicate that exhausted pits were even shut down under nationalisation.
The unions were too strong in the 70s, now we've replaced one problem with another. These days it's the bankers that all British governments must keep satisfied at any cost.
Anyway if you give Thatcher a state funeral every failed politician's going to expect one.
Original post by Joinedup
Clipstone was shut in the early 90's by British Coal, which is to say the British Government. In the early 90's the British government was tory and (even with thatcher no longer at the helm) ideologically committed to closing mines.
it was bought by a private company (RJB) and operated commercially till the coal ran out... then it closed again.
Clipstone closed (finally) cos the coal had been exhausted, not to satisfy an ideological whim. It swam. Being a finite resource the coal under clipstone was not going to last forever.
When the coal's gone, the pit closes - sources indicate that exhausted pits were even shut down under nationalisation.
The unions were too strong in the 70s, now we've replaced one problem with another. These days it's the bankers that all British governments must keep satisfied at any cost.
Anyway if you give Thatcher a state funeral every failed politician's going to expect one.
it was bought by a private company (RJB) and operated commercially till the coal ran out... then it closed again.
Clipstone closed (finally) cos the coal had been exhausted, not to satisfy an ideological whim. It swam. Being a finite resource the coal under clipstone was not going to last forever.
When the coal's gone, the pit closes - sources indicate that exhausted pits were even shut down under nationalisation.
The unions were too strong in the 70s, now we've replaced one problem with another. These days it's the bankers that all British governments must keep satisfied at any cost.
Anyway if you give Thatcher a state funeral every failed politician's going to expect one.
You have to be very, very stupid to call Margaret Thatcher a failed politician.
Get your head out of your ass, ditch your bias and you will recognise that she was probably Britain's greatest post-War PM. This country was a basket case when she came into power and she had the nerves and the moral fibre to pull this country out of the mud and created a legacy that survived everything except a load of free-wheeling bankers and a corrupt, incompetent, immoral Labour party whose only conviction is to vote for what will get them the most votes.
Get your head out of your ass
Charming
- people forget what a meddling shower of small minded bigots the tories were under thatcher. The govenment was convinced it needed to be cracking down on anything it didn't particulaly approve of at every opportunity - homosexuals, scots, northerners, peace campaigners, road protesters, new age hippies, rave parties etc etc.also a big supporter of Aparthied South Africa
Her economic policy was based on keeping large numbers of people unemployed so as to reduce inflation - then she turns around and blames people she's just chucked out of work for being unemployed.
Stupidly took us into the ERM which resulted in the government needlessly spunking away billions on black wednesday.
Sold us down the river to europe at Maastricht in 1992
I don't particularly like Thatcher but this, "Bring back the manufacturing" attitude that so many people have is ridiculous; if they were willing to work in awful conditions with little pay then it could work, but at least with a financial service based economy people have a relatively good standard of living.
Original post by CyclopsRock
She increased public spending in real terms (not just absolute) whilst simultaneously reducing our public spending as a percentage of GDP. Both her and Reagan demonstrated how pro-growth strategies can boost the public purse whilst reducing the tax burden on the people; A lesson that seems to be forgotten with depressing yet predictable regularity.
Yeah. Also, when people whinge about her closing the pits, they don't seem to realize that we aren't using as much coal any more.
Original post by PendulumBoB
I don't particularly like Thatcher but this, "Bring back the manufacturing" attitude that so many people have is ridiculous; if they were willing to work in awful conditions with little pay then it could work, but at least with a financial service based economy people have a relatively good standard of living.
Skilled & semi skilled manufacturing jobs were pretty well paid tbh - especially if you had a union. People used to be able to afford to buy houses and start families in the bad old days.
It's almost as if people imagine manufacturing was all mindless thugs hammering iron bars 8 hours per day.
Just cos they're a type of employment that's looked down upon these days doesn't mean it was always so.
Original post by marcusfox
When Thatcher got in, the NCB was losing millions at the time, so were most of the other nationalised industries, and the country had finally run out of money with which to subsidise them.
So upset by the whole deal are those people from desolate ex-coal mining towns such as New Ollerton (and I do mean desolate, since I used to live there by the way) and Clipstone in north Nottinghamshire, that they have just shown exactly how they feel about the Conservative party - they've just voted in a Conservative MP!!
they're still calling for the railways to be renationalised nearly twenty years later.
When Thatcher got in, the NCB was losing millions at the time, so were most of the other nationalised industries, and the country had finally run out of money with which to subsidise them.
So upset by the whole deal are those people from desolate ex-coal mining towns such as New Ollerton (and I do mean desolate, since I used to live there by the way) and Clipstone in north Nottinghamshire, that they have just shown exactly how they feel about the Conservative party - they've just voted in a Conservative MP!!
they're still calling for the railways to be renationalised nearly twenty years later.
The NCB may have been losing money - but not every pit was. Several were closed by the tories, but were re-opened by the miners or by private companies, and made money right away. So much for not being profitable.
Plus, what would be wrong with the renationisation of the railways? It certainly can't get any worse than what it is like right now.
Original post by Tootles
Yeah. Also, when people whinge about her closing the pits, they don't seem to realize that we aren't using as much coal any more.
Do you think that might have something to do with the tonnes of coal stuck underground?
Besides - the argument isn't about the use of coal, it’s about the way the government went about it. Most pits closed in '92 under Major, seemingly open (and under threat) one week and closed the next. Hundreds of men in countless towns and villages out of work virtually overnight.
I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can seemingly act without any regard or second thought for their fellow man. By all means shut the pits - but do it with a little bit of forward planning and compassion!
Matthew Parris, (who as a Conservative MP in the 80s famously did a documentary where he lived up north on the dole having voted for the reforms to social security – it came to an abrupt end when he ran out of money for the electricity meter!) said that a number of people on the governments side were left feeling a little embarrassed at the defeat of the miners.
But I’m sure Maggie didn’t give two hoots – that’s a good reason to feel strongly either way about her.
Original post by Kateh86
Do you think that might have something to do with the tonnes of coal stuck underground?
Besides - the argument isn't about the use of coal, it’s about the way the government went about it. Most pits closed in '92 under Major, seemingly open (and under threat) one week and closed the next. Hundreds of men in countless towns and villages out of work virtually overnight.
I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can seemingly act without any regard or second thought for their fellow man. By all means shut the pits - but do it with a little bit of forward planning and compassion!
Matthew Parris, (who as a Conservative MP in the 80s famously did a documentary where he lived up north on the dole having voted for the reforms to social security – it came to an abrupt end when he ran out of money for the electricity meter!) said that a number of people on the governments side were left feeling a little embarrassed at the defeat of the miners.
But I’m sure Maggie didn’t give two hoots – that’s a good reason to feel strongly either way about her.
Besides - the argument isn't about the use of coal, it’s about the way the government went about it. Most pits closed in '92 under Major, seemingly open (and under threat) one week and closed the next. Hundreds of men in countless towns and villages out of work virtually overnight.
I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can seemingly act without any regard or second thought for their fellow man. By all means shut the pits - but do it with a little bit of forward planning and compassion!
Matthew Parris, (who as a Conservative MP in the 80s famously did a documentary where he lived up north on the dole having voted for the reforms to social security – it came to an abrupt end when he ran out of money for the electricity meter!) said that a number of people on the governments side were left feeling a little embarrassed at the defeat of the miners.
But I’m sure Maggie didn’t give two hoots – that’s a good reason to feel strongly either way about her.
Okay I'll ask you to answer this question. If there is so much coal underground AND it is economically viable to get it out, why do you think that private companies haven't taken up this God-given opportunity to coin money?
The reality is that no matter how much coal is there, the harsh truth is that it will cost more to get it out than can be made by selling it. That's why the pits closed. And it doesn't matter if you support Labour, are a Conservative or an IOGT member you can't change the financial realities.
As for forward planning, perhaps Arthur Scargill needs to put up his hand to that one. He knew that the government was stockpiling coal at the power stations and he knew that a strike would have to last two or more years before it would have any effect so why didn't he use his head and get the miners out on strike earlier? Because like you, he was blinded by his own rhetoric and failed to recognise that the world had changed.
It's moronic to whine on about jobs that were lost 30 years ago. We might just as well hold a wake for the old goldmine towns in America. And with just as much effect. The world moves on and things that were important in the past cease to have relevance now.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by puddlejumper
Okay I'll ask you to answer this question. If there is so much coal underground AND it is economicalyl viable to get it out, why do you think that private companies haven't taken up this God-given opportunity to coin money?
They have.
Aberpergwm colliery is run on a commercial basis by a Canadian company.
And up until 2 years ago, Tower colliery was run on a commerical basis by its miners until it has become unviable.
As I posted before, if these 2 were able to run on a commerical basis after the Tories closed them down, how many more could have?
Original post by WelshBluebird
They have.
Aberpergwm colliery is run on a commercial basis by a Canadian company.
And up until 2 years ago, Tower colliery was run on a commerical basis by its miners until it has become unviable.
As I posted before, if these 2 were able to run on a commerical basis after the Tories closed them down, how many more could have?
Aberpergwm colliery is run on a commercial basis by a Canadian company.
And up until 2 years ago, Tower colliery was run on a commerical basis by its miners until it has become unviable.
As I posted before, if these 2 were able to run on a commerical basis after the Tories closed them down, how many more could have?
If so many of these mines are profitable, why have they not been taken on? You can't take 2 examples and then cast aspersions on every mine, to do so is fallicious, what reason is there to suspect that these mines were not assesed and deemed unviable?
She was an evil demi-dictator tyrant. Wrecked the manufacturing industry and then hid behind her saviour of the war in the Falklands. Britain will be a better place once she's gone.
Original post by Steevee
If so many of these mines are profitable, why have they not been taken on? You can't take 2 examples and then cast aspersions on every mine, to do so is fallicious, what reason is there to suspect that these mines were not assesed and deemed unviable?
At the time:
Because there was huge pressure from the government to not attempt to re-open the mines.
Now:
Its too late now. The sites have been mothballed and it would cost way too much to redevelop them. Some old mines are now sites of supermarkets. Etc etc.
I am not making assumptions about other sites, I am saying that if two mines that were deemed unviable were actually viable, then how many more suffered the same fate?
(edited 13 years ago)
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