Declining KCL to apply to Warwick through UCAS extra? thoughts?

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ok well looking at the following stats I beg to differ

LSE:
Economics (A*AA) - 3326 applicants for 210 places = 16 applicants per place
Law (A*AA)- 2801 applicants for 188 places = 14 applicants per place
International relations (AAB) - 1220 applicants for 57 places = 21 applicants per place
Management (AAB) - 1354 applicants for 58 places = 23 applicants per place
History (AAB) - 590 applicants for 31 places = 19 applicants per place

The latter 3 being more competitive and yet having lower entry requirements :hmmm:

But that's just my take on it, may be wrong :s-smilie:

...probabaly am, but hey ho, life goes on :biggrin:

So you didn't understand my "in a sticky, lagging manner" comment then?

Okay, let me revise my original statement. Standard offers are a function of just demand. Economics and Law gets considerably more applicants than History or Management, and so to make the workload a lot easier, they can just discard all the applicants who aren't predicted A*AA.

A few years ago all of LSE's entry requirements were AAB. Due to the massive increase in demand for some subjects, i.e. for Economics and Law, they upped the grades, but due to the "sticky" nature of standard offers, the others haven't be upgraded yet (and to be fair, courses such as History, Geography, IR and Management get far smaller numbers of applicants than LSE's Law and Economics courses).

If you think standard offers represent the calibre of a course, you are sadly mistaken. For example, Sussex hands out A*AA offers for Chemistry. Does that mean that this course is of a higher calibre than Oxford Chemistry (which hands out AAA offers)? There are hundreds of other examples I could give you, but you get the point.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 61

viksta1000

Original post by therealOG

So you didn't understand my "in a sticky, lagging manner" comment then?

Okay, let me revise my original statement. Standard offers are a function of just demand. Economics and Law gets considerably more applicants than History or Management, and so to make the workload a lot easier, they can just discard all the applicants who aren't predicted A*AA.

A few years ago all of LSE's entry requirements were AAB. Due to the massive increase in demand for some subjects, i.e. for Economics and Law, they upped the grades, but due to the "sticky" nature of standard offers, the others haven't be upgraded yet (and to be fair, courses such as History, Geography, IR and Management get far smaller numbers of applicants that LSE's Law and Economics courses).

If you think standard offers represent the calibre of a course, you are sadly mistaken. For example, Sussex hands out A*AA offers for Chemistry. Does that mean that this course is of a higher calibre than Oxford Chemistry (which hands out AAA offers)? There are hundreds of other examples I could give you, but you get the point.

OK I get your point

Sussex give out A*AA offers? I believe the highest offer for any course involving Chemistry at Sussex is AAB? which is a combined BSc and MChem?
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/ug/2012/1663/24748#tabs-3

But I do understand your point, higher demand = higher entry grades to filter off the crappy candidates....why higher? because the unis can, that's why!!!

Reply 62

therealOG

Original post by viksta1000

Someone on TSR has an A*AA offer for MChem at Sussex....or maybe it was Surrey :tongue:

Reply 63

FinalMH

Original post by Cherryblossom4you

exactly!

put what right?

Why would they put LSE on its own? :wink:

cause LSE is apart of the University of London

Reply 64

Cherryblossom4you

Original post by FinalMH

Why would they put LSE on its own? :wink:

cause LSE is apart of the University of London

haha good question! i was wondering too, but maybe its because they put emphasis on LSE? i dont know, but kcl is part of the UoL :P

Reply 65

studient

Original post by Mr. Roxas

To be honest, Warwick is head and shoulders superior to King's for any programs related to business or finance. This isn't even a close call.

If you think you can make it into Warwick, go for it. But if you think it's unsafe to withdraw King's, don't take chances. Warwick is very hard to get into.

Universities Targeted by the Largest Number of Top Employers in 2010-2011

1. Cambridge
2. Warwick
3. Manchester
4. London (LSE, Imperial, UCL)
5. Oxford

Nottingham
Bristol
Bath
Durham
Leeds
Edinburgh
Birmingham
Loughborough
Sheffield
Southampton
16. Cardiff
17. Aston
18. Strathclyde
19. Newcastle
20. Exeter

Take note that King'd didn't even make it in the top 20.

Source: http://www.highfliers.co.uk/download/GMReport11.pdf

Sorry to drag this up but Lol, yes it did. I know someone who worked on this report, and London represents UoL

From page 26:

The top five universities targeted by the largest number of leading employers during the 2010-2011 recruitment round are Cambridge, Warwick, Manchester, London (which for this analysis refers to Imperial College, the London School of Economics and the University of London) and Oxford

King's falls under UoL. The reason Imperial is mentioned separately is because a few years ago Imperial started to award their own degrees, not UoL ones. I don't know if the same can be said for LSE though.

Now obviously UoL have their rankings among themselves with LSE being better at economics etc.

Reply 66

Pride

Turn down KCL? wow I wish I was as cool as you...

Reply 67

therealOG

Original post by studient

Sorry to drag this up but Lol, yes it did. I know someone who worked on this report, and London represents UoL

From page 26:

King's falls under UoL. The reason Imperial is mentioned separately is because a few years ago Imperial started to award their own degrees, not UoL ones. I don't know if the same can be said for LSE though.

Now obviously UoL have their rankings among themselves with LSE being better at economics etc.

LSE, UCL and KCL all award their own degrees now.

Reply 68

viksta1000

Original post by Pride

Turn down KCL? wow I wish I was as cool as you...

why do I sense some sarcasm there :wink:

Reply 69

viksta1000

Original post by studient

wheyyy, I knew it :biggrin:

there's no way KCL would not have been included in the top 20 unis....it may not be the best, but its still prestigious enough to be in the top 20

oh stop it

I Wouldn't. Is it worth the risk?? Depends how much you want it though I guess.

Reply 72

FinalMH

Original post by Focus08

oh stop it

can't blame him though :L

Reply 73

Mr. Roxas

Original post by studient

I'm sorry; but I find that hard to believe. There are way many more colleges that UofL has that it's hard to say they all score better than Oxford for employment prospects. I can understand why Warwick and Manchester were ranked higher because they both have prestigious business schools, which are large so there are many to fish out, but the other UofL colleges don't have good business schools, and are quite small, in terms of population, so there are very few candidates to select from. For example, I doubt if SOAS can attract many employers to visit their campus. I don't think banks would go there. The same is true for the other UofL colleges. They're quite small -- some of them aren't probably even in the employer's radar. And the report was very specific. It says:

The five universities most-often targeted by Britain’s top graduate employers in
2010-2011 are Cambridge, Warwick, Manchester, London (including Imperial
College, University College and the London School of Economics) and Oxford.

The top 3 UofL colleges were specifically mentioned. King's, if it were included, would have been mentioned as well, and so was SOAS, Queen Mary, Birkbeck, Goldsmiths, Royal Holloway and a lot more, but were not.

The report can also indicate: ALL U of L colleges. But it did not.

I'm sorry that I'm a bit cynical. But the report was very specific. I do not have reason to understand it otherwise.

Reply 74

marrythenight

Original post by Mr. Roxas

Is this just for 'business'? That's certainly not the case for medicine, dentistry or law (you know, 'real' subjects)

Reply 75

Mr. Roxas

Original post by marrythenight

Is this just for 'business'? That's certainly not the case for medicine, dentistry or law (you know, 'real' subjects)

Mate, did you read the report?

On page 8 it says:

It is these employers that are included in the research for The Graduate Market in 2011 report:

Accenture
Airbus
Aldi
Allen & Overy
Arcadia Group
Army
Arup
Asda
AstraZeneca
Atkins
BAE Systems
Bain & Company
Baker & Mckenzie
Balfour Beatty
Barclays Bank
Barclays Capital
BBC
BDO Stoy Hayward
Bloomberg
BNP Paribas
Boots Company
Boston Consulting Group
BP
BT
Cadbury
Cancer Research UK
Centrica
Citi
Civil Service
Clifford Chance
Credit Suisse
Deloitte
Deutsche Bank
Diageo
DLA Piper
E.ON
EDF
Ernst & Young
ExxonMobil
Foreign Office
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
GCHQ
GlaxoSmithKline
Goldman Sachs
Google
Grant Thornton
Herbert Smith
Hogan Lovells
HSBC
IBM
Jaguar Land Rover
John Lewis
J.P. Morgan
KPMG
L’Oréal
Lidl
Linklaters
Lloyd’s
Lloyds Banking Group
Local Government
Marks & Spencer
Mars
McDonald's Restaurants
McKinsey & Company
Merrill Lynch
MI5 - The Security Service
Microsoft
Ministry of Defence
Morgan Stanley
Nestlé
Network Rail
NHS
npower
Nuclear Graduates
Oxfam
Penguin
Police
PricewaterhouseCoopers
Procter & Gamble
QinetiQ
RAF
RBS Group
Rolls-Royce
Royal Navy
Saatchi & Saatchi
Sainsbury’s
Santander
Shell
Siemens
Sky
Slaughter & May
Sony
Teach First
Tesco
The Co-operative Group
Transport for London
UBS
Unilever
Vodafone
WPP

Reply 76

marrythenight

Original post by Mr. Roxas

lmao I certainly don't think that your link applies to the law world. The magic circle law firms recruit from their top 5-10 universities which most would agree are:

(1) Oxford
(2) Cambridge
(3) UCL
(4) King's
(5) LSE
(6) Warwick
(7) Bristol
etc

Please don't comment on fields in which you are not clued up. A blanket guide will not cover specific sectors.

EDIT - Sorry I just saw your list of universities - LOL. You think a magic circle firm would recruit an undergrad with a 2:1 from Cardiff or Aston over an undergrad from King's Law School with a 2:1. You are talking absolute rubbish.

And double lols for your employers list which juxtaposes Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith with McDonalds Restaurants!

Please stop posting misinformation!

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 77

FinalMH

Original post by marrythenight

Read the article.

Reply 78

marrythenight

Original post by FinalMH

Read the article.

I've read it. It's unreliable for law. It's a very general guide for graduates across a broad range of subjects at a broad range of universities. I rely on LegalWeek for information regarding law firms and recruitment. Any table juxtaposing a magic circle law firm with McDonalds must be treated with several pinches of high concentrate sea salt.

Go into the legal section of this forum and ask the actual law graduates from which universities top law firms recruit. I can tell you from personal experience that the top firms are ALWAYS at King's.