[James82]

(Original post by elli_emc)
So that's it? We should all just pack our bags and go home, as one or two examples of misconduct outweigh the good being done by the majority?
& anyway, I'd assume that (theoretically) if you wanted to steal organs, you could do it much the same whether donation was opt-in or opt-out?

One or two examples? This was hundreds of cases across multiple hospitals, it was an institutional problem which resulted in changes to the law, multi-million pound pay-outs and above all the anguish of many hundreds of parents who questioned the treatment of their dead children.

You're right that it is a slight tangent, but donation levels might be high enough now for the debate on opt-in or opt-out not to be needed had the NHS not acted in such a way in the past.

The crux of this matter is the separation of the state and the individual, the state should ask and you should give, the state shouldn't hold and you shouldn't ask.

[WhatTheFunk]

(Original post by James82)
Which was brought in as a result of Alder Hey, it may be illegal, but it happened, and at an institutional level, no prosecutions were ever brought by the CPS, any law that would make such practices easier should be vehemently opposed. The NHS has proved it can't be trusted, if they are short of organs they only have themselves to blame for their past actions dissuading donors.

Just one case and the whole NHS can't be trusted now, linking everyone with one case, and the NHS is one of the biggest employers in the world

Everyone moans when people blame every banker for the mess that was caused

there has been acts in the past they cover that, just the one in 2004 topped it up

the doctor who named, got permanently banned from practising medicine in the UK

[lawology]

I support the opt-out system, I'm an organ-donor and know first hand that a lot of my friends and family would like to be but they never get round to it. Is this just a proposal or is it definitley being implemented, and if so when? Also, which political parties tend to support/oppose it?

Sorry, I know those seem like silly questions, I just haven't been very involved with politics lately!

[LawBore]

(Original post by lawology)
I support the opt-out system, I'm an organ-donor and know first hand that a lot of my friends and family would like to be but they never get round to it. Is this just a proposal or is it definitley being implemented, and if so when? Also, which political parties tend to support/oppose it?

Sorry, I know those seem like silly questions, I just haven't been very involved with politics lately!

Just so you know, this is the Model House of Commons on TSR- nothing to do with the real thing. It's a TSR Government proposal, and the government is a coalition of Labour, UKIP, Centre, and the Lib Dems (have I missed anyone?)

[lawology]

(Original post by LawBore)
Just so you know, this is the Model House of Commons on TSR- nothing to do with the real thing. It's a TSR Government proposal, and the government is a coalition of Labour, UKIP, Centre, and the Lib Dems (have I missed anyone?)

Oh I thought I would have heard more about it in the news haha Feeling slightly disappointed/embarrassed now heheh, thank you for clearing that up

[James82]

(Original post by robinson999)
Just one case and the whole NHS can't be trusted now, linking everyone with one case, and the NHS is one of the biggest employers in the world

Everyone moans when people blame every banker for the mess that was caused

there has been acts in the past they cover that, just the one in 2004 topped it up

the doctor who named, got permanently banned from practising medicine in the UK

One case? 104,000 organs, body parts or entire bodies, almost half a million tissue samples and over 1,500 still born or aborted babies. It might be known as the Alder Hey scandal and for the actions of one doctor in particular, but this was just the tip of the iceberg, it involved 210 hospitals and many thousands of NHS staff.

You may want to wrap it all up as one case and believe the media scapegoating of one doctor, but this was a widespread institutional theft of body parts.

[drbluebox]

This thread is too long to read

My views are its a case of telling us that if we can do something we should.

In that case should I give a homeless person £5 just because I have it in my wallet to make his life better? No matter if I was poor, rich, average wealth i.e that £5 could of gone towards my heating for a week and I could be on benefits so its a lot of money. If I have eaten at least 1 meal that day and have made another and theres someone who hasnt eaten in a few days do I automatically have to give them the food again even if I had little and I was just hungry?

The evils of a opt out system is to me more than taking my freedom away its taking away my choice, I have never had an operation done in my life, never had a blood transfusion or anything.

If I ever do I should not be guilted into giving.

Finally theres many different reasons for people needing transplants, should someone who has a reckless accident of their own fault be given my organ? should an alcoholic? etc.

Why should we be forced to help them for their own mistakes?

I will point out that I come from a benefit claimant family so I am used to "handouts" so its not me saying that nobody should have comfort and compassion but rather that why are we forced to pick and choose.

[WhatTheFunk]

(Original post by James82)
One case? 104,000 organs, body parts or entire bodies, almost half a million tissue samples and over 1,500 still born or aborted babies. It might be known as the Alder Hey scandal and for the actions of one doctor in particular, but this was just the tip of the iceberg, it involved 210 hospitals and many thousands of NHS staff.

You may want to wrap it all up as one case and believe the media scapegoating of one doctor, but this was a widespread institutional theft of body parts.

people moan when people blame every bank for the mess

being a organ donor is a great thing, the sad thing is not enough people do it, and with the current system it will only get worst as more and more people need organs
more pointless deaths, and treatment and alot of money to be spent

[James82]

(Original post by robinson999)
people moan when people blame every bank for the mess

being a organ donor is a great thing, the sad thing is not enough people do it, and with the current system it will only get worst as more and more people need organs
more pointless deaths, and treatment and alot of money to be spent

I agree, but the current shortage is not helped by the past failings of the NHS, the system needs to be reviewed and improvements made, but not at the expense of freedom. Deaths which protect freedoms are not pointless.

[WhatTheFunk]

(Original post by James82)
I agree, but the current shortage is not helped by the past failings of the NHS, the system needs to be reviewed and improvements made, but not at the expense of freedom. Deaths which protect freedoms are not pointless.

but they project no one freedom, if any thing the freedom of life is affected and well its limited tat freedom

[James82]

(Original post by robinson999)
but they project no one freedom, if any thing the freedom of life is affected and well its limited tat freedom

Life isn't a freedom, what we can do with that life is.

[WhatTheFunk]

(Original post by James82)
Life isn't a freedom, what we can do with that life is.

but you would say no one has that right to take away life

what we do with life has been written, depending on where we are born and to who we are born to

[Metrobeans]

This is in cessation.

[Metrobeans]

This has gone to second reading, here.