[manousha]

Before or after they send you an offer? Who does it, UCAS or each university separately? My dilemma is as follows: I am British but living outside UK and there is a 50/50 chance to be classified as either of them. If I apply as a home student and they decide I am not, will they send me an offer as a Home student first and then change it to international? Will i compete against all the home students but pay as an international at the end, ot they will decide immediately on the status and I will compete against the international. Sorry, I hope you understand what I mean. International or not I would like to compete against all international but I will submit as a home student at first because there is a great chance I can make it as such.

[Minerva]

(Original post by manousha)
Before or after they send you an offer? Who does it, UCAS or each university separately? My dilemma is as follows: I am British but living outside UK and there is a 50/50 chance to be classified as either of them. If I apply as a home student and they decide I am not, will they send me an offer as a Home student first and then change it to international? Will i compete against all the home students but pay as an international at the end, ot they will decide immediately on the status and I will compete against the international. Sorry, I hope you understand what I mean. International or not I would like to compete against all international but I will submit as a home student at first because there is a great chance I can make it as such.

You will have to find out what your fee status is before you submit your application. Contact Student Finance for advice.

Broadly, whether you are British is not the issue. If you are living outside the UK/EU and it is not because your parents are temporarily posted abroad, you will be classed as an international student. If your parents are temporarily living abroad because of their work you will need to ask Student Finance what evidence is required to substantiate your claim.

If you are made an offer as a Home/EU student there is a reasonable chance of that offer still standing if your status changes to International, but not the other way round.

[whitepearlbaby]

Where outside the UK do you live and for how long?

[Minerva]

(Original post by whitepearlbaby)
Where outside the UK do you live and for how long?

Assuming he's outside the EU, the issue is not how long he has been living there, but whether he can show that he has lived in the UK/EU for the required three years before the start of the course (or that the reason he hasn't is because his parents have been temporarily relocated outside the EU for work reasons).

[curlywurlydaydreamer]

Just wondering, I've been living outside the UK for 3 years (will be 4 when I finish my course) to another EU country, and I want to study a PGCE when I return to England, will I be eligible for the standard bursary? I am a Brit if that makes any difference.

[whitepearlbaby]

(Original post by Minerva)
Assuming he's outside the EU, the issue is not how long he has been living there, but whether he can show that he has lived in the UK/EU for the required three years before the start of the course (or that the reason he hasn't is because his parents have been temporarily relocated outside the EU for work reasons).

Well, I was gonna deduct from his answer how long he did live in the UK I'm not very good at answering questions, that's what all my friends and family say anyway

[manousha]

There is a reasonable chance that I can be classified as a home student since my parents are here on a temporary contract and that most of the students in my school have been given the home status under the same circumstances. I am aware of all the evidence that is needed and able to provide most if it. However nothing is for sure. So the status is decided after the offers have been made? My worry is that if I apply as a home student and they decide I am international, how will this affect my offer, is it transferrable and number two , do I miss on any advantages, if any, like competing with other international students, more places allocated to them, etc.

[Minerva]

(Original post by manousha)
There is a reasonable chance that I can be classified as a home student since my parents are here on a temporary contract and that most of the students in my school have been given the home status under the same circumstances. i am aware of all the evidence that is need and able to produce most if it. However nothing is for sure. So the status is decided after the offers have been made? My worry is that if I apply as a home student and they decide I am international, how will this affect my offer, is it transferrable and number two , do I miss on any advantages, if any, like competing with other international students, more places allocated to them, etc.

That is why you need to get a decision before you apply, if you possibly can. Otherwise, if there is any doubt apply as a Home/EU student, because if you are reclassified as an international student there is a good chance of your offer still standing. Applying as an international student does not give you any advantages, and as I've already said an offer made to you as an international student is likely to be withdrawn if your fee status changes. This is because unis have strictly applied government quotas for Home/EU students and are fined for exceeding them. They can have as many international students as they like, so an extra one wouldn't be a problem. It is not the case that there are more places for international students, by the way. The numbers vary from uni to uni and course to course, and competition for them can be just as fierce as for Home/EU students.

[manousha]

Thank you Minerva. I am more concerned about changing from home to international than vice versa. If I apply as an international I will not make any attempts to change it. I will apply for law at Cambridge, UCL, Dirham, KCL and from what I've seen from their websites there are more seats allocated to international students. I am really quite puzzled as of what to do. I am aware also that the competition among international students is fierce as well. But I really need advice.

[manousha]

Who should I approach, can you please send me a link?

[Minerva]

(Original post by manousha)
Thank you Minerva. I am more concerned about changing from home to international than vice versa. If I apply as an international I will not make any attempts to change it. I will apply for law at Cambridge, UCL, Dirham, KCL and from what I've seen from their websites there are more seats allocated to international students. I am really quite puzzled as of what to do. I am aware also that the competition among international students is fierce as well. But I really need advice.

Source for that, as it surprises me?

I have already given you my advice, which is to apply as a Home/EU student, as I genuinely do not believe that your chances of a place at any of the institutions you name will be higher as an international applicant. However, the only people who can tell you for certain what the position is will be the individual unis.

(Original post by manousha)
Who should I approach, can you please send me a link?

Google 'Student Finance' and start from there.

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by manousha)
Thank you Minerva. I am more concerned about changing from home to international than vice versa. If I apply as an international I will not make any attempts to change it. I will apply for law at Cambridge, UCL, Dirham, KCL and from what I've seen from their websites there are more seats allocated to international students. I am really quite puzzled as of what to do. I am aware also that the competition among international students is fierce as well. But I really need advice.

It will not make any difference to the Cambridge application whether you apply as home or international. For your other universities it might (not will).

Each university makes it own decision on home/international. They apply the same rules and the answer ought to be the same. However there is plenty of evidence of differences in borderline cases. I do not know whether Student Finance England makes its own determination or relies on the university and if it does make its own determination, what happens if there is a conflict with the university determination.

[Minerva]

(Original post by nulli tertius)
It will not make any difference to the Cambridge application whether you apply as home or international. For your other universities it might (not will).

Each university makes it own decision on home/international. They apply the same rules and the answer ought to be the same. However there is plenty of evidence of differences in borderline cases. I do not know whether Student Finance England makes its own determination or relies on the university and if it does make its own determination, what happens if there is a conflict with the university determination.

The uni bases its decision on what Student England determines, which is based on the information provided by the applicant to them. The uni goes by what is put on UCAS - though if they think there's a discrepancy (say Home/EU fee status but foreign correspondence address) they may ask about it.

[Gawjuz.x]

Hey, Im in the same position as you and I'm going to apply as home student because international feees are waaayyy to expensive in the UK. I might as well go to America in that case. Ive been abroad for 4 (Will be 5 when i go to uni) years and i know people who have lived abroad for longer and managed to get a home-student status. There are loop holes to it, someone once mentioned how if you have property in the UK you might be eligible for home student. I still need to do my research about it though. If anyone knows anything, it would be a great help to let me know tooo!

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by Minerva)
The uni bases its decision on what Student England determines, which is based on the information provided by the applicant to them. The uni goes by what is put on UCAS - though if they think there's a discrepancy (say Home/EU fee status but foreign correspondence address) they may ask about it.

I hope you can see the inconsistency (which I think mirrors real life) in what you have just put.

If the university basis its decision on what Student Finance England determines, then that means the contents of Student Finance England forms not UCAS forms nor any extra information the student provides to the university rather than Student Finance England. Why if it is simply accepting the Student Finance England decision is the university needing to make any further enquiries at all?

[Minerva]

(Original post by Gawjuz.x)
Hey, Im in the same position as you and I'm going to apply as home student because international feees are waaayyy to expensive in the UK. I might as well go to America in that case. Ive been abroad for 4 (Will be 5 when i go to uni) years and i know people who have lived abroad for longer and managed to get a home-student status. There are loop holes to it, someone once mentioned how if you have property in the UK you might be eligible for home student. I still need to do my research about it though. If anyone knows anything, it would be a great help to let me know tooo!

Owning property here, or having a UK passport, doesn't count if you are living abroad. It's residence that matters. You have to have been resident in the UK for three full years immediately before your course starts to qualify for Home/EU status. If that hasn't happened, the only way you will get it is if you can prove that your parents are temporarily living abroad because of their employers have posted them there (eg armed forces, diplomatic service).

[manousha]

(Original post by Minerva)
Source for that, as it surprises me?



.

http://http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.c o.uk/international/breakdown/university-and-subject/, the law section

[Minerva]

(Original post by nulli tertius)
I hope you can see the inconsistency (which I think mirrors real life) in what you have just put.

If the university basis its decision on what Student Finance England determines, then that means the contents of Student Finance England forms not UCAS forms nor any extra information the student provides to the university rather than Student Finance England. Why if it is simply accepting the Student Finance England decision is the university needing to make any further enquiries at all?

If a student is an international, the uni will want to know that they are 'good for the money' and might want also check that an applicant is genuinely not a Home/EU student (I think the discussion above gives some indication as to why they might want to do that).

With a Home/EU student, the uni gets its tuition fees direct and these are guaranteed. So, if a uni enquires "do you really have Home/EU status?" and the applicant sends back evidence of confirmation from Student Finance that they have been approved for loans etc, that's it. The uni knows that Student Finance has done all the checks and made a decision. Indeed, although you don't have to take out loans if you don't want to, it is generally wiser to register with Student Finance so that your eligibility for Home/EU fees is established.

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by Minerva)
Owning property here

Owning property available for your use here does have a bearing on this. The reason is that the tests incorporate concepts that are also used by HMRC to determine liability to pay UK tax. There is a body of tax caselaw which uses availability of property in determining these concepts.

The Revenue caselaw leans in favour of UK residence.

[Minerva]

(Original post by manousha)
http://http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.c o.uk/international/breakdown/university-and-subject/, the law section

I wouldn't rely on that if I were you. It's not clear how those figures have been derived, for a start.

(Original post by nulli tertius)
Owning property available for your use here does have a bearing on this. The reason is that the tests incorporate concepts that are also used by HMRC to determine liability to pay UK tax. There is a body of tax caselaw which uses availability of property in determining these concepts.

The Revenue caselaw leans in favour of UK residence.

Owning property here certainly has a bearing on one's tax position, but unfortunately that is not the same as eligibility for government support as a student. You can pay UK taxes (or rather, one's parents can!) and still not be eligible for Home/EU university fees.