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Credit Suisse vs. Morgan Stanley Summer Internship

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Original post by Prince of Zamunda
Not sure where you're getting your info from, but MS S&T conversion is normally around 80%


Any idea what DB mormally converts in S&T ?
Reply 21
Original post by Prince of Zamunda
Not sure where you're getting your info from, but MS S&T conversion is normally around 80%


Usually around 60-70% to nit pick.
Reply 22
Original post by Prince of Zamunda
Aside from the dominant players, none of the other banks have any significant FX market share so saying "MS is stronger than CS in FX" is akin to saying Strathclyde is better than Essex for Economics when someone asks which of the two would be better for breaking into banking.




Not true. Similar conversion rates, if not better (for MS).


I have to agree with this lad.


but who makes the monnies? profit/ head?
Original post by jakezg
Original post by Prince of Zamunda
Aside from the dominant players, none of the other banks have any significant FX market share so saying "MS is stronger than CS in FX" is akin to saying Strathclyde is better than Essex for Economics when someone asks which of the two would be better for breaking into banking.



but who makes the monnies? profit/ head?

Even profit/head isn't a reliable measure because it needs to be discounted by the cost of the 'seat' the trader sits on. If DB thinks a monkey in your seat should be bringing in 15mm given that you see 20% of the flow, they won't pay you for bringing in 10mm while at the same time, your friend at the same level in MS who brings in 10mm might get paid handsomely.
Reply 24
Original post by Prince of Zamunda
Even profit/head isn't a reliable measure because it needs to be discounted by the cost of the 'seat' the trader sits on. If DB thinks a monkey in your seat should be bringing in 15mm given that you see 20% of the flow, they won't pay you for bringing in 10mm while at the same time, your friend at the same level in MS who brings in 10mm might get paid handsomely.


agreed.
but my point is market share isn't everything, and for i'd say for the OP totally irrelevant to his choice at this stage.

Smaller houses such as ms, gs , cs will inevitably have smaller market shares in some markets, but that doesnt mean they are inferior.
Original post by jakezg
agreed.
but my point is market share isn't everything, and for i'd say for the OP totally irrelevant to his choice at this stage.

Smaller houses such as ms, gs , cs will inevitably have smaller market shares in some markets, but that doesnt mean they are inferior.

I know. I wasn't trying to argue the merits of choosing based on market share (for one, chasing market share isn't always profitable for the firm, and a lot of money can be made through prop trading with other informational edges not gained directly through client flow etc). I started off typing a reply along that line, then realised it would have to be a long one and decided to not bother with it.
Reply 26
Ok, so got an offer for MS... Now even more confused. I think I'm 100% certain I prefer the culture at CS, but it's not like I dislike the culture at MS - I like it there too but I just feel like I fit in at CS more, especially with the effort they made with me today. That said, I dont know what's best in the long run. I want to work in NY in the future but even if I choose CS over MS, is that such a big deal? Cos surely, if I move to NY, it will most likely be with the bank I'm already with so I'd imagine the weight of the name over there would make no difference...?

Secondly, as mentioned I want to do FX or Commodities and am potentially considering Rates. One of the women in commods at CS explained that their division is obviously much, much smaller than MS but said that because of the size of the teams, you get much more interaction with clients and your own book more quickly, whereas at MS they have too many salespeople, and partly as a result, you have to join a commodities research team for your first 1 or 2 years before you begin sales or trading. So even though MS > CS in commodities, due to the above, could it be more beneficial to work in a smaller division where I get more exposure to new clients and where the division is growing, or am I still better off just going for MS if I want to do commodities?

However, if I'm not sure between the 3 desks, am I better off going for CS on the basis that CS is better for FID generally? CONFUSED.
Original post by Tits&Acid
One of the women in commods at CS explained that their division is obviously much, much smaller than MS but said that because of the size of the teams, you get much more interaction with clients and your own book more quickly, whereas at MS they have too many salespeople, and partly as a result, you have to join a commodities research team for your first 1 or 2 years before you begin sales or trading. So even though MS > CS in commodities, due to the above, could it be more beneficial to work in a smaller division where I get more exposure to new clients and where the division is growing, or am I still better off just going for MS if I want to do commodities?


I wouldn't believe that. MS do both physical and financial commodities trading, they ask their graduates to do 1 - 2 years to learn about the physical markets. MS has a fleet of nearly 100 oil tankers and it will give you an opportunity to get involved with this side.

Also, by pooling the grads, the grads get a feel for different commodities and can then move onto a desk that they prefer (energy, metals, power, ags)

If you want to do commods, go to MS.
I'm not sure about the other divisions but when I did my spring week at Morgan Stanley, you could easily see that MS were VERY proud of their commods division but not too much in other parts of FICC!!

Plus after speaking to a few down-to-earth employees there, they said straight up that commods was their flagship sector but others in the sales + trading division were lacking.
Reply 29
And I'm not 100% sure I want to do commods, leaning towards FX if anything.
Reply 30
Also is compensation greater at MS than CS? I've got the impression it's significantly better, in FT roles I mean, i.e. are you more likely to be recognised in terms of pay if you perform really well at MS than you would be at CS?
Reply 31
Compensation in the BBs are pretty similar, it may differ a few k a year. But obviously, it's an awful parameter to base your decision on.
Reply 32
I wouldn't base my decision on it, it's just an additional, but small factor to take into consideration as well.
Original post by Unlmtd
Compensation in the BBs are pretty similar, it may differ a few k a year. But obviously, it's an awful parameter to base your decision on.


All else equal, take the job with the highest pay.
Reply 34
CS pays more for the internship but it's only 3k more per year, pro-rated, so there's little in it. But I figured MS may be better for bonsues.
Reply 35
Original post by Tits&Acid
Ok, so got an offer for MS... Now even more confused. I think I'm 100% certain I prefer the culture at CS, but it's not like I dislike the culture at MS - I like it there too but I just feel like I fit in at CS more, especially with the effort they made with me today. That said, I dont know what's best in the long run. I want to work in NY in the future but even if I choose CS over MS, is that such a big deal? Cos surely, if I move to NY, it will most likely be with the bank I'm already with so I'd imagine the weight of the name over there would make no difference...?

Secondly, as mentioned I want to do FX or Commodities and am potentially considering Rates. One of the women in commods at CS explained that their division is obviously much, much smaller than MS but said that because of the size of the teams, you get much more interaction with clients and your own book more quickly, whereas at MS they have too many salespeople, and partly as a result, you have to join a commodities research team for your first 1 or 2 years before you begin sales or trading. So even though MS > CS in commodities, due to the above, could it be more beneficial to work in a smaller division where I get more exposure to new clients and where the division is growing, or am I still better off just going for MS if I want to do commodities?

However, if I'm not sure between the 3 desks, am I better off going for CS on the basis that CS is better for FID generally? CONFUSED.


From a post like this, I'm a little suprised you have offers tbh. you seem to want to work in every area.

1) you dont know the culture.. you might think you do from your teas and coffees but believe me when u start and are on the desk it ALL changes. MS is a pretty social place in FID, the culture people fit into pretty well and its actually a draw for some people of the place. In commods the culture is slightly more intense and quiet., but that reflects the nature of the role. Cant talk about CS cuilture but what i do know is that you dont know it.

2) if you want to go to ny, ms is better than cs, bigger nyc base, more opportunities

3) commods at ms you have to spend a year on the research desk- true. But after that you are in the deep end and i believe MS is the specialist in physical commods.

4) never choose an internship based on salary
Reply 36
Original post by jakezg
From a post like this, I'm a little suprised you have offers tbh. you seem to want to work in every area.

1) you dont know the culture.. you might think you do from your teas and coffees but believe me when u start and are on the desk it ALL changes. MS is a pretty social place in FID, the culture people fit into pretty well and its actually a draw for some people of the place. In commods the culture is slightly more intense and quiet., but that reflects the nature of the role. Cant talk about CS cuilture but what i do know is that you dont know it.

2) if you want to go to ny, ms is better than cs, bigger nyc base, more opportunities

3) commods at ms you have to spend a year on the research desk- true. But after that you are in the deep end and i believe MS is the specialist in physical commods.

4) never choose an internship based on salary


Well obviously. This is precisely what I'm trying to figure out. Of course there's no way I can get a full idea of the culture anyway because I'm not working there yet, so I'm having to go on what I've got from what I've seen. I know that the culture typically varies by desk and that what you get from HR or shadowing doesn't necessarily represent how it actually is. But that's all I have to go on. God, I'm not that naive.

Every area? I specified two main areas I'm interested in - FX and commodities. Not really that appalling given you do 3 rotations.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Tits&Acid
Well obviously. This is precisely what I'm trying to figure out. Of course there's no way I can get a full idea of the culture anyway because I'm not working there yet, so I'm having to go on what I've got from what I've seen. I know that the culture typically varies by desk and that what you get from HR or shadowing doesn't necessarily represent how it actually is. But that's all I have to go on. God, I'm not that naive.

Every area? I specified two main areas I'm interested in - FX and commodities. Not really that appalling given you do 3 rotations.


you mentioned FX, Commods and rates.

Also there are 'subdivisions' in each of these, for examples, there is EM and G10 FX, then there is Spot FX and FX Options, then for FX Options there will be vanilla options teams and exotics team.
If you put more focus on 1-2 specific areas it might be easier for you to prepare for the internship :smile:
Reply 38
Original post by 10Scientist
you mentioned FX, Commods and rates.

Also there are 'subdivisions' in each of these, for examples, there is EM and G10 FX, then there is Spot FX and FX Options, then for FX Options there will be vanilla options teams and exotics team.
If you put more focus on 1-2 specific areas it might be easier for you to prepare for the internship :smile:


Yeah but there's no point doing that now. It'd make sense to do that closer to the matching process which is in a years time. I have 14 months until I start the internship.
Wow - thats insane getting offers for internships from both of them 0.o

Personally (although I have no working experience in either bank) CS comes across as a place I would prefer to work from the people I have run into from either bank. If your long-term goal is to work in NY then MS might be better since its a US bank. Having said that all these banks are global so I dont really see this as a valid point to base your decision on.

Personally I would go with your gut instinct. My gut instinct has served me incredibly well so far, why wont yours :wink:?

Also whats this S&T conversion rate people are talking about? Is it the interns taking to job offer ratio? (Im only first year so cut me some slack :wink:)

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