The Student Room Group

Oxford or Cambridge - What Type of People are Inclined to Apply to Which?

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Original post by Harry S Truman
E. H. Carr says no. While Oxford is generally regarded as better for Arts subjects, Cambridge seems to have a stronger tradition in History and Philosophy, at least from where I see it.


I have to second this. Whilst I'm sure that a degree in PPE is more likely to set you up better for a degree in politics than that of PPS at Cambridge, it doesn't make one more superior than the other - however, the reputation for History in at least the 20th century at Cambridge seems superior, plus nowadays the course is more holistic than that at Oxford.

Diverting from the point of the thread, I'm just here to post exactly as the majority here are saying: what a stupid question (coming from a two-up-two-down no university background in family working class kid with chip firmly placed on shoulder Cambridge student in October)
Reply 41
Oxford had a grand total of 27 black and 14 mixed race students in 2009. the person you described is white, so Oxford.
Reply 42
Original post by Jampolo
Oxford had a grand total of 27 black and 14 mixed race students in 2009. the person you described is white, so Oxford.


So I understand this must be a pretty fun thing to say, given how often people like to do it on TSR, in mainstream media and in political speeches, but it's utter *******s.

(a) Oxford accepted 27 black or mixed black students to undergraduate courses in 2009. This is not the same as there being 27 black people in Oxford.
(b) We would only expect Oxford to accept about 36 black students per year, based on how many get AAA or better, and that's before taking into account their disproportionately high number of applicants for the most oversubscribed subjects.
(c) Other groups of students are underrepresented at Oxford, e.g. grammar school students, but you don't hear much about that.
(d) Perhaps most relevantly for this godforsaken topic and your imbecilic response, Cambridge has, for the last two years at least, accepted fewer black students to undergraduate courses than Oxford. Quite why you (and the lamentable David Lammy, and David Cameron, and god knows who else) have therefore chosen to single out Oxford as a bad place for black students to apply is completely beyond me.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 43
Original post by BJack
So I understand this must be a pretty fun thing to say, given how often people like to do it on TSR, in mainstream media and in political speeches, but it's utter *******s.

(a) Oxford accepted 27 black or mixed black students to undergraduate courses in 2009. This is not the same as there being 27 black people in Oxford.
(b) We would only expect Oxford to accept about 36 black students per year, based on how many get AAA or better, and that's before taking into account their disproportionately high number of applicants for the most oversubscribed subjects.
(c) Other groups of students are underrepresented at Oxford, e.g. grammar school students, but you don't hear much about that.
(d) Perhaps most relevantly for this godforsaken topic and your imbecilic response, Cambridge has, for the last two years at least, accepted fewer black students to undergraduate courses than Oxford. Quite why you (and the lamentable David Lammy, and David Cameron, and god knows who else) have therefore chosen to single out Oxford as a bad place for black students to apply is completely beyond me.


LOL

easily enough black / mixed race people get the grades. They cherry pick the whites :wink:
Reply 44
Original post by Jampolo
LOL

easily enough black / mixed race people get the grades. They cherry pick the whites :wink:

Oh stop talking rubbish, will you?:mad: The percentage of black students who get the required grades is far lower than that of white students, and A-level statistics prove this. In 2009, 452 black students across the UK achieved AAA (excluding General Studies) compared to 29,000 white students. Even if every single one of those 452 black students had applied to Oxford and received an offer, they would only have accounted for about 14% of that year's undergraduate intake.
Reply 45
Original post by hobnob
Oh stop talking rubbish, will you?:mad: The percentage of black students who get the required grades is far lower than that of white students, and A-level statistics prove this. In 2009, 452 black students across the UK achieved AAA (excluding General Studies) compared to 29,000 white students. Even if every single one of those 452 black students had applied to Oxford and received an offer, they would only have accounted for about 14% of that year's undergraduate intake.


Yup, but there was only 27 that got in :frown:
you mad bro? dw fel, obama is reppin the black community well.

Sometimes i feel oxbridge are elitist camps for breeding posh white people.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 46
Original post by Jampolo
Yup, but there was only 27 that got in :frown:
you mad bro? dw fel, obama is reppin the black community well.

Sometimes i feel oxbridge are elitist camps for breeding posh white people.

:sigh:
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll and actually believe what you say...
Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of those 452 black students applied to Oxford or Cambridge and that exactly half applied to each. That would make 226 hypothetical black Oxford applicants. Since the average success rate for applicants that year was around 25%, you'd therefore expect 57 of them to have received offers - if it wasn't for the fact that black Oxford applicants are disproportionately more likely to apply for the most competitive subjects, which have a much lower success rate: 7.8% for E&M and 12.3% for Medicine; the article doesn't mention what the third most popular subject is, but it's likely to be PPE (16.5%). So taking all that into account, you couldn't reasonably expect much more than 27 black applicants to have got offers that year even in a scenario which probably hinges on more people applying than really did apply.
Obviously it's still a very low number, but the point is that it wouldn't be fair to blame Oxford for it and accuse them of deliberately discriminating against black applicants. If anything, you'd need to question why so few black students achieve three or more As and then try to tackle the causes, whatever they are.
Stephen Fry somewhere tries to winkle out the differences between the two 'types', taking the Beyond the Fringe team as his example. He contrasts rangy, languid Jonathan Miller and Peter Cook with cuddly Dudley and homey Alan Bennett, though there exists as well a class difference between the two pairings. He goes on to suggest the difference as a function of geography, talking of golden Oxford nestled in the Chilterns, a circumstance which takes the edge off, while grey, austere Cambridge is made ascetic by the mineral winds blowing in off the North Sea. But of course it's hardly proposed as a sensible thesis.

A more prosaic geographical circumstance bearing on who applies where is that Oxford attracts more applicants from Wales, the West country, the West Midlands, and the North West, because it's closer to home. By contrast, there are few enough places from which you'd have to pass by Cambridge in the car to get to Oxford (Ipswich?).
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 48
Original post by hobnob
:sigh:
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll and actually believe what you say...
Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of those 452 black students applied to Oxford or Cambridge and that exactly half applied to each. That would make 226 hypothetical black Oxford applicants. Since the average success rate for applicants that year was around 25%, you'd therefore expect 57 of them to have received offers - if it wasn't for the fact that black Oxford applicants are disproportionately more likely to apply for the most competitive subjects, which have a much lower success rate: 7.8% for E&M and 12.3% for Medicine; the article doesn't mention what the third most popular subject is, but it's likely to be PPE (16.5%). So taking all that into account, you couldn't reasonably expect much more than 27 black applicants to have got offers that year even in a scenario which probably hinges on more people applying than really did apply.
Obviously it's still a very low number, but the point is that it wouldn't be fair to blame Oxford for it and accuse them of deliberately discriminating against black applicants. If anything, you'd need to question why so few black students achieve three or more As and then try to tackle the causes, whatever they are.



MICHAEL JACKSON CAN SIT ON TOP OF THE WORLD, AS LONG AS HE DONT SIT IN THE BEVERLY PALM HOTEL, COZ THERE AINT NO ****** ALLOWED IN THERE.

back in the days when michael jackson... was black!
hotel =oxford
hehe
Reply 49
Original post by Timon
Let's say we have a typical student from an expensive private boarding school


Hahahaha. For your sake that better be sarcastic.
Reply 50
Original post by Jampolo

MICHAEL JACKSON CAN SIT ON TOP OF THE WORLD, AS LONG AS HE DONT SIT IN THE BEVERLY PALM HOTEL, COZ THERE AINT NO ****** ALLOWED IN THERE.

back in the days when michael jackson... was black!
hotel =oxford
hehe

OK, I'll take that as an admission that you are indeed a troll.
Reply 51
Original post by hobnob
OK, I'll take that as an admission that you are indeed a troll.


Oxfords compsition of students is not representative of 'multicultural' britain.
Reply 52
Original post by Jampolo
Oxfords compsition of students is not representative of 'multicultural' britain.

No, it isn't. But that's not the same as claiming it's Oxford's fault and accusing them of being racist and 'cherry-picking' white students.
There are reasons for this, and they're related to what happens before people even choose their A-level subjects.
Original post by Jampolo
Oxfords compsition of students is not representative of 'multicultural' britain.


Whose fault is it - the university that picks on purely academic grounds, or the poor education system that takes them to that stage and fails to provide egalitarian teaching around the country?

Perhaps people might want to forget the couple of months of selecting candidates and instead focus on the 13 years of education that goes before applying...
Traditionally speaking if you were from a Liberal family you went to Cambridge and if your family was Tory and Royalists you attended Oxford. The other difference in the past was if you wished to study one of the Arts and Humanities subjects you went to Oxford and if you wanted to read one of the sciences or mathematics you went to Cambridge. One more difference was C of E people tended to go to Oxford and Non-Conformists went to Cambridge. Northerners drifted to Cambridge and Southerners seemed to prefer Oxford is another old stereotype of questionable origins.

Of course, these days, most of these old rules of thumb no longer apply that much. However, as muted as they are today, they are always in the background, although never spoken about nor admitted to, despite there still being some truth behind these old stereotypes even till this day. Keep that in mind.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 55
Original post by Dodge-Slant-6
Keep that in mind.


2011
Original post by jneill
2011


And it is now 2015......So what?.......These are stereotypes that go back hundreds of years I am discussing. Does it matter whether they are talked about in 2011 or 2015?
Reply 57
Original post by Dodge-Slant-6
And it is now 2015......So what?.......These are stereotypes that go back hundreds of years I am discussing. Does it matter whether they are talked about in 2011 or 2015?


The people "discussing" the stereotypes were either banned or left years ago. Why dredge up a zombie thread.
Original post by jneill
The people "discussing" the stereotypes were either banned or left years ago. Why dredge up a zombie thread.


Because I felt like it.....Next question.
Durham tbh.

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