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Find the values of b and c.

(x + 1) and (x + 2) are both factors of 2x3 + bx2 - 5x + c. Find the values of b and c. What method can I use to tackle this question? I haven't got to algebraic division yet, that's a few pages on in the book.
Reply 1
Use the Factor Theorem.
Reply 2
Original post by vc94
Use the Factor Theorem.


Thanks but I just don't get how I can since I don't know the values of b and c. Gosh I hate the factor theorem. Please help.........any hints........
Reply 3
I think Viete's Formulae might come in handy:
If the roots of the polynomial below are x_1, x_2, x_3 then by the fundamental theorem of algebra:
ax3+bx2+cx+d=a(xx1)(xx2)(xx3)ax^3+bx^2+cx+d=a(x-x_1)(x-x_2)(x-x_3) (*)
and therefore
x1+x2+x3=bax_1+x_2+x_3=-\frac ba
x1x2+x2x3+x3x1=cax_1x_2+x_2x_3+x_3x_1=\frac c a
x1x2x3=dax_1x_2x_3=-\frac d a

If you haven't seen this before, check it out! it's completely straightforward algebraic manipulation of (*).

You then only need to denote the third root (which you know it's real, but it actually doesn't matter) with say y and substitute in the above to get:
-1-2+y=-b/2
2-y-2y=-5/2
2y=-c/2

so, from the second one y=3/2 then put this in the first to get b=3 and finally in the last to get c=-6.
If x+1 is a factor then putting x= -1 in the equation should give the answer 0
If x+2 is a factor then putting x= -2 in the equation should also give the answer 0

Do this and you have a pair of simultaneous equations:-

-2+b+5+c = 0
-16+4b+10+c = 0

Solve for b and c

OK?

MP
Reply 5
Original post by zeratul
I think Viete's Formulae might come in handy:
If the roots of the polynomial below are x_1, x_2, x_3 then by the fundamental theorem of algebra:
ax3+bx2+cx+d=a(xx1)(xx2)(xx3)ax^3+bx^2+cx+d=a(x-x_1)(x-x_2)(x-x_3) (*)
and therefore
x1+x2+x3=bax_1+x_2+x_3=-\frac ba
x1x2+x2x3+x3x1=cax_1x_2+x_2x_3+x_3x_1=\frac c a
x1x2x3=dax_1x_2x_3=-\frac d a

If you haven't seen this before, check it out! it's completely straightforward algebraic manipulation of (*).

You then only need to denote the third root (which you know it's real, but it actually doesn't matter) with say y and substitute in the above to get:
-1-2+y=-b/2
2-y-2y=-5/2
2y=-c/2

so, from the second one y=3/2 then put this in the first to get b=3 and finally in the last to get c=-6.


Thanks very much. I am teaching myself core maths, albeit very slowly. Therefore I have lots of questions in general. I don't really get the first line at all, ax3+bx2+cx+d=a(xx1)(xx2)(xx3)ax^3+bx^2+cx+d=a(x-x_1)(x-x_2)(x-x_3). What topics should I look up rather than wasting your time? The - b/a is from deriving quadratic formula?
Reply 6
I could probably help you, either by scribbling something here or by giving you some reference, but before I can do that, could you tell me a bit about your level? i.e. what year are you in, or what do you study right now (a copy of your syllabus)
Reply 7
I will try to lead you through this problem anyway. I'm not well aware what your level of understanding is, so I enclosed by [] ideas that might be hard for you to comprehend. Feel free to ignore whatever i wrote between square brackets. I will start with a few definitions:

def1.a polynomial is an function of the form
f(x)=anxn+an1xn1++a1x+x0f(x)=a_nx^n+a_{n-1}x^{n-1}+\ldots+a_1x+x_0 [with coefficients aia_i in a ring R which might be Z\mathbb{Z}, or Q\mathbb{Q}, or R\mathbb{R}, or ultimately C\mathbb{C}]
def2.a root of a polynomial is a [complex] number c such that f(c)=0f(c)=0
def3.A factor g of the polynomial f is a polynomial such that g|f, i.e. there exists a third polynomial h such that gh=f (or if you want g(x)h(x)=f(x) for all x.

Now onto the theorem you have trouble with:

thm1. c is a root of f IF AND ONLY IF (x-c) (which is itself a polynomial) is a factor of f.

A proof of this might be complicated and quite long-winded . However I will try to help you understand the its mechanics.

In the expression for f in def1. take

e.g.1.n=1 and assume a10a_1\neq0. Then
f(x)=a1x+a0=a1(x(a0a1))f(x)=a_1x+a_0=a_1(x-(-\frac {a_0}{a_1})) (trivial algebraic manipulations)
so (x(a0a1))(x-(-\frac{a_0}{a_1})) is a factor of f (take h=a_1 in def.3)
On the other hand,
f(c)=0a1c+a0=0a1c=a0c=a0a1f(c)=0\Leftrightarrow a_1c+a_0=0 \Leftrightarrow a_1c=-a_0 \Leftrightarrow c=-\frac{a_0}{a_1}.
We can summarize the above as
c is a root of f c=a0a1\Leftrightarrow c=-\frac{a_0}{a_1} \Leftrightarrow (x-c) is a factor of f.

e.g.2. n=2. I will not work out the general case, but rather a simple example. The general case might be a good exercise for you, if you are indeed interested in learning maths.
Set f(x)=x23x+2f(x)=x^2-3x+2. Then f has roots
b±b24ac2a\frac{b\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}= 1 or 2. [i trust you know how to solve quadratics. if not I might help you with that too].
Now to check thm1., note that:
f(x)=x2x2x+2=x(x1)2(x1)=(x1)(x2)f(x)=x^2-x-2x+2=x(x-1)-2(x-1)=(x-1)(x-2).
Therefore (x-1) is a factor of f [take], and (x-2) is a factor of f [take]. As claimed!

Now onto the final bit, the problem we have to solve:

We are given that x+1 is a factor of f(x):=2x3+bx25x+cf(x):=2x^3+bx^2-5x+c. Then, according to thm1., -1 is a root of f, and equivalently,
f(1)=02+b+5+c=0b+c=3f(-1)=0\Leftrightarrow -2+b+5+c=0 \Leftrightarrow b+c=-3 (1)
Likewise, x+2 is a factor of f, so -2 is a root of f, i.e.
f(2)=016+4b+10+c=04b+c=6f(-2)=0 \Leftrightarrow -16+4b+10+c=0 \Leftrightarrow 4b+c=6 (2)
So you end up with a system of 2 simultaneous linear equations with two unknowns, which you can solve, for instance by subtracting (1) from (2) and get 3b=9, so b=3 and substituting this back in (1) to get c=-3-b, so c=-6, as before!

I think this is a much more appropriate approach for you and I hope the above will be of help. Concerning my previous solution, I think it rather defeats the purpose of the question (for which I apologise). However, if you are interested in learning more about The Fundamental Theorem of Algebra and Viete's Formulae, you can look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_algebra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%A8te%27s_formulas
Reply 8
the C2 edexcel exam finished this morning, why are you asking this now?

EDIT: oh wait... are you an international student? in that case I can provide you with the answers to the exam, PM me! :biggrin: lolol
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 9
1. he just said he is teaching himself
2. he posted this at about 3am, which should have been before the exams
I recommend you to try to think and find the info you need before asking obvious questions
Reply 10
has anyone got answers from this morning yet? :smile:
Reply 11
where can I find the answers to the C2 exam?
Reply 12
bdw did anyone else who does Further maths find the exam insanely hard?
Reply 13
Original post by zeratul
I will try to lead you through this problem anyway. I'm not well aware what your level of understanding is, so I enclosed by [] ideas that might be hard for you to comprehend. Feel free to ignore whatever i wrote between square brackets. I will start with a few definitions:

def1.a polynomial is an function of the form
f(x)=anxn+an1xn1++a1x+x0f(x)=a_nx^n+a_{n-1}x^{n-1}+\ldots+a_1x+x_0 [with coefficients aia_i in a ring R which might be Z\mathbb{Z}, or Q\mathbb{Q}, or R\mathbb{R}, or ultimately C\mathbb{C}]
def2.a root of a polynomial is a [complex] number c such that f(c)=0f(c)=0
def3.A factor g of the polynomial f is a polynomial such that g|f, i.e. there exists a third polynomial h such that gh=f (or if you want g(x)h(x)=f(x) for all x.

Now onto the theorem you have trouble with:

thm1. c is a root of f IF AND ONLY IF (x-c) (which is itself a polynomial) is a factor of f.

A proof of this might be complicated and quite long-winded . However I will try to help you understand the its mechanics.

In the expression for f in def1. take

e.g.1.n=1 and assume a10a_1\neq0. Then
f(x)=a1x+a0=a1(x(a0a1))f(x)=a_1x+a_0=a_1(x-(-\frac {a_0}{a_1})) (trivial algebraic manipulations)
so (x(a0a1))(x-(-\frac{a_0}{a_1})) is a factor of f (take h=a_1 in def.3)
On the other hand,
f(c)=0a1c+a0=0a1c=a0c=a0a1f(c)=0\Leftrightarrow a_1c+a_0=0 \Leftrightarrow a_1c=-a_0 \Leftrightarrow c=-\frac{a_0}{a_1}.
We can summarize the above as
c is a root of f c=a0a1\Leftrightarrow c=-\frac{a_0}{a_1} \Leftrightarrow (x-c) is a factor of f.

e.g.2. n=2. I will not work out the general case, but rather a simple example. The general case might be a good exercise for you, if you are indeed interested in learning maths.
Set f(x)=x23x+2f(x)=x^2-3x+2. Then f has roots
b±b24ac2a\frac{b\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}= 1 or 2. [i trust you know how to solve quadratics. if not I might help you with that too].
Now to check thm1., note that:
f(x)=x2x2x+2=x(x1)2(x1)=(x1)(x2)f(x)=x^2-x-2x+2=x(x-1)-2(x-1)=(x-1)(x-2).
Therefore (x-1) is a factor of f [take], and (x-2) is a factor of f [take]. As claimed!

Now onto the final bit, the problem we have to solve:

We are given that x+1 is a factor of f(x):=2x3+bx25x+cf(x):=2x^3+bx^2-5x+c. Then, according to thm1., -1 is a root of f, and equivalently,
f(1)=02+b+5+c=0b+c=3f(-1)=0\Leftrightarrow -2+b+5+c=0 \Leftrightarrow b+c=-3 (1)
Likewise, x+2 is a factor of f, so -2 is a root of f, i.e.
f(2)=016+4b+10+c=04b+c=6f(-2)=0 \Leftrightarrow -16+4b+10+c=0 \Leftrightarrow 4b+c=6 (2)
So you end up with a system of 2 simultaneous linear equations with two unknowns, which you can solve, for instance by subtracting (1) from (2) and get 3b=9, so b=3 and substituting this back in (1) to get c=-3-b, so c=-6, as before!

I think this is a much more appropriate approach for you and I hope the above will be of help. Concerning my previous solution, I think it rather defeats the purpose of the question (for which I apologise). However, if you are interested in learning more about The Fundamental Theorem of Algebra and Viete's Formulae, you can look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_algebra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%A8te%27s_formulas


I really appreciate the time you've taken to type all that in. You've given me further reading and something to work towards understanding :smile:
Reply 14
Original post by MaturePharm
If x+1 is a factor then putting x= -1 in the equation should give the answer 0
If x+2 is a factor then putting x= -2 in the equation should also give the answer 0

Do this and you have a pair of simultaneous equations:-

-2+b+5+c = 0
-16+4b+10+c = 0

Solve for b and c

OK?

MP


Thanks :smile:

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