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The Manchester United Thread VIII

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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Just a quick thought on Rooney's pace, well more acceleration really. At Everton and when he first arrived at us I remember him taking players on far more frequently than he does now, he seemed to have a quick burst of acceleration that could get him a bit of space. We don't really see that as much now. I don't think it just happened when he started playing as a 'proper' striker in the 09-10 season, even in the 3 seasons before with Rooney playing a deeper role he wasn't really the same player.

    When did he lose it? Difficult to pinpoint I know, but my best guess would probably be that metatarsal injury he got before the 06 world cup. So two seasons after he joined us. Seems plausible to me but my memory of that far back isn't too good. Anyway, could an injury like that have such a long term effect? Or more a general fitness thing, as he got older his physique changed (inb4 fat :rolleyes:) and that caused it?

    Could be a technique thing I suppose. I mean, I remember in the 09-10 season at the Emirates when we scored that counter attack goal (Park, Nani and Rooney involved iirc) he made up some ridiculous ground to get there. Showed great pace off the ball, but on it he's not the same. So perhaps his dribbling skills have faded as he concentrated on other bits of his game. Seems strange to think bits of his game have regressed between 18 and 25 (?) but I suppose it's possible.

    Or mentality maybe? He has always been a bit of a confidence player, used to have large barren spells, score 7 in 7 or something brilliant, and that'd (roughly) go in a cycle. Maybe he lost confidence in that area of his play, don't buy that too much myself though.

    Meh, rambling, thinking aloud, talking to myself etc. This isn't a criticism of him btw, it's pretty obvious he's so much better now than when he joined. But it seems like his future in back in a deeper central role, and in that position a quick burst of acceleration while carrying the ball is such a great asset to have. That was one of the best things about Kaka when he was at Milan, when injuries robbed him of that he didn't look the same. Rooney shows glimpses now but if he could fully rediscover that part of his game he'd bring so much to the team.

    Maybe i'm imagining/exeggerating how he played early in his career and therefore imaging/exaggerating the decline, pretty sure it's not entirely fictional though :dontknow:
    Aye, I've noticed that. Not too sure if he's completely lost it he did make up some stupid amount of ground for that goal against arsenal last season- btw according to the stats if valencia kept on running he would have equalled some sort of a sprinting record, thats how fast he was going! Yeah so Rooney does seem to be much more worse on the ball but seems to have developed his game off the ball very well last season, this season not so much as rarely did he play the role of the proper striker i think? Maybe it's the metatarsals or confidence, I think its just his training he does do a lot of resistance training on his legs so that could have made him very good at those bursts of pace and accelerating doing it with the ball is a whole new level maybe he'll regain that part of his game as he's played in a deeper role, we'll just have to see the main thing is that he remains tactically versatile enough to play where Fergie places him. One thing I do like is that he's begun to pass a lot more like Scholesy, possibly the only player in our squad now who can pass like that under pressure.
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    (Original post by Joburger)
    As poor a manager that Stuart Pearce is, we're really kiddng ourselves if we think he's the problem.
    No but he got results, 1-1 with an offside goal, 0-0, then pretty much 0-0 until right at the end. Must be taking tips from Capello when it comes to inaction. Unless you are all over a team United-Schalke style then why haven't you at least tweaked something at halftime?

    As for Rooney I just think he it just happens when he drifts in and out of form, he was quite happy to run at people during his streak as a lone striker, I remember he running at the City defence doing a stepover or two in the CC game, I was was thinking then this is a guy overflowing with confidence.
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Just a quick thought on Rooney's pace, well more acceleration really.:
    I've definitely noticed it and i dont think its just Rooney whos changed. Tevez and Ando are other players off the top of my head who possess lightning acceleration and youtube clips of their performances pre-United would confirm that but when coming to United they've had to tone it down.

    Part of it is due to risk, they operate in a zone where giving the ball away can be disastrous. Launching one of those dribbles they're known for is high risk. Previously in their careers there probably had not been much call for defensive awareness and tackling skills but at United theres far more emphasis on that and link up play.

    I remember Rooney saying in an interview he feels hes more matured, his decision making has improved to help the team. Tevez also mentioned that when he was at United he was a different player.
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    thats our boy!
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    Just a quick thought on Rooney's pace, well more acceleration really. At Everton and when he first arrived at us I remember him taking players on far more frequently than he does now, he seemed to have a quick burst of acceleration that could get him a bit of space. We don't really see that as much now. I don't think it just happened when he started playing as a 'proper' striker in the 09-10 season, even in the 3 seasons before with Rooney playing a deeper role he wasn't really the same player.

    When did he lose it? Difficult to pinpoint I know, but my best guess would probably be that metatarsal injury he got before the 06 world cup. So two seasons after he joined us. Seems plausible to me but my memory of that far back isn't too good. Anyway, could an injury like that have such a long term effect? Or more a general fitness thing, as he got older his physique changed (inb4 fat :rolleyes:) and that caused it?

    Could be a technique thing I suppose. I mean, I remember in the 09-10 season at the Emirates when we scored that counter attack goal (Park, Nani and Rooney involved iirc) he made up some ridiculous ground to get there. Showed great pace off the ball, but on it he's not the same. So perhaps his dribbling skills have faded as he concentrated on other bits of his game. Seems strange to think bits of his game have regressed between 18 and 25 (?) but I suppose it's possible.

    Or mentality maybe? He has always been a bit of a confidence player, used to have large barren spells, score 7 in 7 or something brilliant, and that'd (roughly) go in a cycle. Maybe he lost confidence in that area of his play, don't buy that too much myself though.

    Meh, rambling, thinking aloud, talking to myself etc. This isn't a criticism of him btw, it's pretty obvious he's so much better now than when he joined. But it seems like his future in back in a deeper central role, and in that position a quick burst of acceleration while carrying the ball is such a great asset to have. That was one of the best things about Kaka when he was at Milan, when injuries robbed him of that he didn't look the same. Rooney shows glimpses now but if he could fully rediscover that part of his game he'd bring so much to the team.

    Maybe i'm imagining/exeggerating how he played early in his career and therefore imaging/exaggerating the decline, pretty sure it's not entirely fictional though :dontknow:






    Season by season that acceleration probaby decreased. I think it's partly maturing as a player, as ABF said. He's not some enthusiastic 16 year old street-kid anymore and also his physique changing (recall reading an interview with him where he says he's worried about his body or something, or doesn't have the 'natural body' of someone like Giggs). I think playing as a 'proper' striker is also another factor. Ronaldo was now gone and Rooney was now our biggest player. With Ronaldo in the team at least he could manage to faff about a little bit. The pressure was on him to score goals so I think he improved a part of his game which would increase his chances of scoring goals - heading. He said he did a lot of work on his heading and that shows going by the number of goals he scored with his head that season! There's also his long-range passing, which has really come on, a joy to watch that when he's on his game.

    When I see clips from the 08-09 like the above, especially the one-two with Ronaldo goal against Bolton, Rooney still has the acceleration and looks half of the size that he is now. He strikes me as the sort of player who comes back very unfit in pre-season and needs a good pe-season under his belt, don't think he had that last season. With Hernandez in the team Rooney will continue playing the deeper role so we'll see how he does. Rooney's performances were very encouraging towards the end of the season, confidence seemed to be back, doesn't have the dribbling ability that he used to have but with a good pre-season and him becoming more accustomed to the role maybe we'll see a comeback of that.

    So I'd say it's a combination of physique, playing different roles, maturing into more of a team player and confidence.
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    (Original post by IanLim93)
    Nothing wrong? Liverpool probably has the weakest defence out of the top 6. If Reina wasnt in goal, your team would have done a lot worse. Agger has been injured the majority of the past season, Carragher always look out of place against a pacey striker, Johnson cannot defend for his life, Kyragos probably seen him give away more penalties than anything else. I'll admit you have decent youngsters who look promising but you have a to go a lot more than just sign a LB

    Well it's not like he's going to say i feel old and tired? 31 for a box to box player is old, he's no way near the best shape of his life. Suarez has the potential i agree, Carroll a proven PL goalscorer? please he's played one season in the PL how is he a proven goalscorer...

    I do agree if you guys do manage to sign decent wingers you'll be a much better team. However I still believe you would struggle to make the top 4. As a "marquee" player who would you realisticly see come to liverpool with no place in Europe? regardless of what we all think of the Europa league, we have no idea what players think of playing in the Europa league.
    I don't think we conceded one goal from open play from when we played UTD up until when we played Fulham. Our defence improved significantly after Dalglish and Clarke came in. You also haven't even mentioned Martin Skrtel who was solid for the end part of the season, or Martin Kelly who was solid until he got injured. I think Gerrard still has a couple of very good seasons in him, he's been half injured ever since the end of the 08-09 campaign.

    In terms of a few quality signings, Suarez came. City signed plenty of players without any European football, Silva, Toure, Tevez ect. Also, Spurs signed players like Modric whilst they had no European football.

    Should be an interesting season and transfer window anyhow.
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    ^City signed good players because of all their money. It wouldn't have mattered whether they were in Europe or not.
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    (Original post by Pn94)
    I don't think we conceded one goal from open play from when we played UTD up until when we played Fulham. Our defence improved significantly after Dalglish and Clarke came in. You also haven't even mentioned Martin Skrtel who was solid for the end part of the season, or Martin Kelly who was solid until he got injured. I think Gerrard still has a couple of very good seasons in him, he's been half injured ever since the end of the 08-09 campaign.

    In terms of a few quality signings, Suarez came. City signed plenty of players without any European football, Silva, Toure, Tevez ect. Also, Spurs signed players like Modric whilst they had no European football.

    Should be an interesting season and transfer window anyhow.
    Whenever i watch Skrtel play, he seems to want to give away a penalty at every corner. I'm surprised the ref hasn't spotted it after it happens game after game. Like i said before you do have decent youngsters who can come in and play

    Suarez wanted to leave Ajax for the premier league. City managed to sign plenty of players because they offered ridiculously amount of money to the players.
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    ManUtdStuff on twitter is reporting Barca and Madrid scouts having been looking at Ravel Morrison. Don't know if its true, but him at Madrid would be one of the shortest, most wasteful, and tragic footballing careers ever.
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    @DarrenCanalPlus Hearing #mufc agreed a fee with #PSG for Berbatov. Doesn't mean deal is near. But shows both clubs' intentions
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    Also we had a £10m for Varane rejected same source as before.

    I'm not sure about getting rid of Berbatov, leaves us a bit unexperienced in back up. Just Owen who can't be depended on to stay fit. Then we would have Welbeck, Kiko?, and Hernandez who is less experienced than Welbeck.

    BTW: Optajoe on twitter is brilliant if you like stats. Earlier today, we should have bought Robben.
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    Yeah, I follow Optajoe on twitter. Sid Lowe is a good one to follow, usually up to date with La Liga.
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    What was the tweet from OptaJoe about Robben?
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    (Original post by Da_hopeful_1)
    What was the tweet from OptaJoe about Robben?
    82% - Of players to have played at least 50 games, Arjen Robben has the best PL win %, winning 55 of his 67 PL games (D8, L4). Valuable.
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    Although with Nani, Ronaldo, and Robben all in the same team we could have pretty much started a theatre company.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    Although with Nani, Ronaldo, and Robben all in the same team we could have pretty much started a theatre company.
    Aye
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    S'all gone a bit quiet on the transfer front recently, I'm half expecting a big signing to come out of nowhere though
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    (Original post by xDave-)
    S'all gone a bit quiet on the transfer front recently, I'm half expecting a big signing to come out of nowhere though
    What do you think about Berbatov perhaps leaving for a fee of £15M to PSG this summer.
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    (Original post by Da_hopeful_1)
    What do you think about Berbatov perhaps leaving for a fee of £15M to PSG this summer.
    Wow, missed that post!

    Berbatov showed us a bit of what he could do in the first half of last season, problem is a lot of those goals were in the same games and he was just so ineffective in many. It seemed to be if he had a bad first few touches it was game over for him, he just got more and more frustrated; he was terrible against Blackpool in May. And that miss against City in the FA Cup... :facepalm:

    I don't think I'd miss him tbh, I know he did care (as evidenced by his frustration) but his laid back, uninterested look wasn't really very appealing, though occasionally he had some touches that you could just drool over all day:

    :coma:

    Anyway, this season bumped up his value a bit so it's probably the best time to sell him if we want to make a bit of money back on the ridiculous fee we paid for him. Frankly he's rarely going to start and isn't exactly what you'd call an impact sub.
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    I want to see Welbeck given a chance next season, down the middle. Based on their loan spells and pretty much anything that isn't that goal against Villa he deserves to be given more chances than Kiko, and i'd prefer to see him in the side than Owen. 4th choice striker, 3rd if Berbatov leaves. I think a lot of the time he'd be more effective off the bench than Berba anyway.

    Also hope that Hernandez's stamina issues are resolved over the summer, I remember a couple of games last season where he struggled to last the whole 90 minutes. It could just be that he's naturally like that and there's not much we can do about it, but i'd think that because the levels of training are so much higher here and we'll get that improvement out of him. You know...Mexicans and stuff
Updated: April 2, 2012
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