The Student Room Group

To set the record straight for students applying in the US

To set the record straight, there are only eight Ivy League schools. They are:

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Brown
Cornell
Dartmouth
UPenn
Columbia

MIT, Stanford, CalTech, and UC-schools are NOT Ivy League schools, although they are certainly all fine institutions, and may for some subjects have stronger programs than Ivies. Bear in mind that the Ivy League wasn't originally about academics. The eight Ivies were in a football (American) league together, and played against each other. All are academically excellent, but there are many schools that are not Ivies that are great too. All the Ivy league schools are private, meaning the cost of attending them is very high. Also bear in mind that the cost of education in the US is much higher than in England. For room, board, and tuition at most Ivies, the price tag for a year is usually at least $38,000.

In terms of good public schools, the prices are lower to a degree, but you will not be eligible for in-state tuition, which is where you really find bargains. UVA and William and Mary in Virginia are great public schools. So are UCLA and UCBerkeley. UMichigan has a very strong reputation. Take a look at those if you're applying in the US.

On essays, it's worth looking at some US websites on American college essays. They are dramatically different from the PS English students are used to.

Mostly, there isn't a good corollary to UCAS here. You can use the common application to apply for a lot of schools, but some schools don't accept the common app, and most good schools require supplements.

Anyway, hope all of this helps. Feel free to e-mail me with questions--I've done a good amount of looking at this system for the last four years.

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That's quite helpful - could you answer a few other questions I've got please?

What is the difference between Early application and Regular application, and does that apply to me as an international student?

As far as extracurriculars go, are places like Harvard looking for someone who's amazing or just someone with broad interests who does a bit here and there? When I apply should I send in some samples of music/art or is that only if you're amazing?

For the SAT in literature, do I need to have read anything beforehand?

Is Brown actually any good? I heard it's got a great atmosphere (and hot girls), but how is it academically?

Thanks
Reply 2
I hope you don't mind, jjarvis, if I answer this question. Though of course you can add to my answers!


What is the difference between Early application and Regular application, and does that apply to me as an international student?

There are two types of early applications, early decision and early action. Early decision is when you apply early to a college with the intention that if you get in, you'll go. You're locked to the school, so to speak, if you're accepted. Early action is just applying early and then hearing back earlier. You're not tied to the school like with ED. As far as I'm aware, you probably too late for either of these, unless you've already filled out your applications and taken SATs. As for regular application, different schools have different deadlines, I'm not really sure whats normal :redface:


As far as extracurriculars go, are places like Harvard looking for someone who's amazing or just someone with broad interests who does a bit here and there? When I apply should I send in some samples of music/art or is that only if you're amazing?

Once again, I'm not positive, but I think being amazing at one thing and having broad interests are both OK! If you're not a superstar in one particular area they won't hold it against you, as long as you have a lot of interests/extracurriculars. I'm not sure about sending stuff in, but if its good then go ahead. It can't hurt...


For the SAT in literature, do I need to have read anything beforehand?

No, no actual books are required. But I would buy a study guide (Princeton Review, Kaplan) and take some practise tests. IMO, the test is pretty easy as long as you know what to expect. I got a good score without that much studying.


Is Brown actually any good? I heard it's got a great atmosphere (and hot girls), but how is it academically?

I'm pretty sure its very good! It might not be quite the same level as Harvard, but its still very highly thought of.

Hope this helps a bit :smile:
Moloko
There are two types of early applications, early decision and early action. Early decision is when you apply early to a college with the intention that if you get in, you'll go. You're locked to the school, so to speak, if you're accepted. Early action is just applying early and then hearing back earlier. You're not tied to the school like with ED. As far as I'm aware, you probably too late for either of these, unless you've already filled out your applications and taken SATs. As for regular application, different schools have different deadlines, I'm not really sure whats normal :redface:

Ok thanks for your help - but what's the point of early action? Does it mean you're more likely to get in? Are there any restrictions on it like with early decision? Oh and for regular action do they consider all the applications after they've come in or first come first served? Thanks
The Ace is Back
Ok thanks for your help - but what's the point of early action? Does it mean you're more likely to get in? Are there any restrictions on it like with early decision? Oh and for regular action do they consider all the applications after they've come in or first come first served? Thanks


Hey! Most people who apply early action just do so because they want to know the outcome of their application sooner. Regular decision people don't usually find out the outcome of their application until March or April, so knowing that you've been accepted in the middle of December can be a relief if you tend to stress out a lot! There is no binding contract like Early Decision, so Early Action really is just a way of speeding up the application process. Whether it will help your chances, I don't really know. Early decision definitely does help your chances because schools like to have a certain amount of the class locked into attending... it helps their admission statistics if more people who are admitted attend.

Early action lets the school know you're really interested, so that is a plus. But the people who apply early action all tend to be extremely qualified, so a weaker application will pale in comparison to all the great applications... so this can be a disadvantage. If you have the opportunity to apply early action, however, I would definitely reccommend doing it! It helps you keep on top of application deadlines and the sooner apps are done with, the happier you'll be. Plus, if you totally screw up, you'll have time to rectify your mistake and get your app in for regular decision.

It really doesn't matter all that much what choice you make in terms of Early Action/Early Decision/Regular decision... far more important is getting the app done and submitting the strongest application possible; in the end, this is what is going to get you into the school and when you submitted the app isn't going to matter nearly as much.

Oh... and for all of these deadlines, as long as you get your app in by the deadline it will be assessed the same as all the other applications. Colleges wait until all apps are in before they start reviewing them. It is different from UCAS and British schools which start giving out offers the moment they start receiving apps. There is not too much pressure to get the app in super early like with British schools.

Hope this helps!
BTW I go to Stanford and most people in the US think it is an Ivy League school, so don't feel bad. Ivy League has really just come to mean the top 10 universities in the US. I find that students who feel most strongly about the "Ivy League" title are students at Columbia, Brown, and Cornell--the (very slightly) less highly regarded. I have found some students at those schools quite hostile to my Stanford experience, which is pretty sad.
ebonyphoenix
Hey! Most people who apply early action just do so because they want to know the outcome of their application sooner. Regular decision people don't usually find out the outcome of their application until March or April, so knowing that you've been accepted in the middle of December can be a relief if you tend to stress out a lot! There is no binding contract like Early Decision, so Early Action really is just a way of speeding up the application process. Whether it will help your chances, I don't really know. Early decision definitely does help your chances because schools like to have a certain amount of the class locked into attending... it helps their admission statistics if more people who are admitted attend.

Early action lets the school know you're really interested, so that is a plus. But the people who apply early action all tend to be extremely qualified, so a weaker application will pale in comparison to all the great applications... so this can be a disadvantage. If you have the opportunity to apply early action, however, I would definitely reccommend doing it! It helps you keep on top of application deadlines and the sooner apps are done with, the happier you'll be. Plus, if you totally screw up, you'll have time to rectify your mistake and get your app in for regular decision.

It really doesn't matter all that much what choice you make in terms of Early Action/Early Decision/Regular decision... far more important is getting the app done and submitting the strongest application possible; in the end, this is what is going to get you into the school and when you submitted the app isn't going to matter nearly as much.

Oh... and for all of these deadlines, as long as you get your app in by the deadline it will be assessed the same as all the other applications. Colleges wait until all apps are in before they start reviewing them. It is different from UCAS and British schools which start giving out offers the moment they start receiving apps. There is not too much pressure to get the app in super early like with British schools.

Hope this helps!

Brilliant, thanks. Does Early Decision mean you can only apply to one university?
Reply 7
Yes. If you are offered a place with Early Decision, you are bound to that university and must withdraw all your other university applications. If you are offered a place with Early Action, you are not bound to that university.
Reply 8
The Ace is Back



Is Brown actually any good? I heard it's got a great atmosphere (and hot girls), but how is it academically?

Thanks


Yes, it is quite good. Unfortunately on the West Coast many people have not heard of it. Then again that situation applies vice versa. I've also heard it is extremely liberal...so I don't know if that affects your decision at all.

The best private universities are the Ivies, MIT, Stanford. The best public universities are Berkeley, U Michigan-Ann Arbor, UCLA, and UVA. Many people unfortunately have not heard of William and Mary, and it is not extremely highly regarded. (if you're rankings-oriented..check out USNews for the annual rankings, but take them with a grain of salt.)

If you want more information and verification of what i've said, please visit talk.collegeconfidential.com. Here you can get tons of information regarding American universities.

I wish you luck Acey in applying, because you'll need it. :wink:
SlyPie
Yes, it is quite good. Unfortunately on the West Coast many people have not heard of it. Then again that situation applies vice versa. I've also heard it is extremely liberal...so I don't know if that affects your decision at all.

The best private universities are the Ivies, MIT, Stanford. The best public universities are Berkeley, U Michigan-Ann Arbor, UCLA, and UVA. Many people unfortunately have not heard of William and Mary, and it is not extremely highly regarded. (if you're rankings-oriented..check out USNews for the annual rankings, but take them with a grain of salt.)

If you want more information and verification of what i've said, please visit talk.collegeconfidential.com. Here you can get tons of information regarding American universities.

I wish you luck Acey in applying, because you'll need it. :wink:

Haha, very kind of you. I was actually thinking Harvard.. shouldn't be too hard eh? :wink: How's England treating you?
Reply 10
The Ace is Back
Haha, very kind of you. I was actually thinking Harvard.. shouldn't be too hard eh? :wink: How's England treating you?


HARVARD AAAAA. Very easy to get into eh. Just KICK ASS at the interview. Also, I'd recommend posting all your ECs but emphasizing one. Harvard tends to look for "unique" students who are exceptional in certain areas. So make your application stick out from the rest.

Actually a friend from high school got into Harvard. I could ask him for you..He's doing physics/chemistry...god, he's a genius.

England is lovely. I've been sleeping a lot...I'll blame it on jetlag *cough* not my laziness or anything.
shady lane
I find that students who feel most strongly about the "Ivy League" title are students at Columbia, Brown, and Cornell--the (very slightly) less highly regarded. I have found some students at those schools quite hostile to my Stanford experience, which is pretty sad.


Stanford is better known and looked up to far more than those three.
Heck, you guys OWN computer science !

Yahoo was set up by your students Filo, Yang. :eek:
Google was set up by your students Page and Brin. :eek:
Sun was set up by your staff and students. :eek:

The leading computer architects are from Stanford.
The leading computer architecture book was written by your John Hennessey.

You also have :adore: KNUTH !!!!! , :adore: Feigenbaum, Ullman, Winograd, and John McCarthy.

You invented AI and Lisp. You have the worlds second best robotics lab. You have great compiler theorists. You have leading experts in database theory and search algorithms.

If Jesus ever became a programmer, he would enroll at Stanford.
The only place that owns you for sheer geekiness is MIT.
God would enroll at MIT...

I suspect that the Holy Ghost would sign up for a MBA at Harvard :biggrin: :cheers:
Reply 12
Sorry I haven't been around the last few days. W&M has a very good reputation round here, but that could be because I live in Virginia.

One other thing to bear in mind is that you major in a subject in America, but you have to take classes in other subjects as well (which is a mixed blessings). Brown is an exception to this...there are no required classes there.

Yes, Stanford is a very good school. No doubt there.
Reply 13
I feel like I'm always doing this, but also check: Loren Pope's Looking Beyond the Ivy League. People around here tend to freak about reputation and all that jazz, but there's a whole lot more that goes into choosing a university! This is a time in your life when you're going to change drastically as a person and one that could quite possibly shape the direction of your life! Don't just pick it off a league table: do the research, visit the institution, talk to the professors in your department and be convinced that this is the place in which you will feel comfortable learning, exploring, and changing!

Am I convinced that reputation matters more at the graduate, professional and postgraduate degree level? Yes. But, undergrad? I think that who you are at the end of those three or four years is far a more important consideration.
Earlham
I feel like I'm always doing this, but also check: Loren Pope's Looking Beyond the Ivy League. People around here tend to freak about reputation and all that jazz, but there's a whole lot more that goes into choosing a university! This is a time in your life when you're going to change drastically as a person and one that could quite possibly shape the direction of your life! Don't just pick it off a league table: do the research, visit the institution, talk to the professors in your department and be convinced that this is the place in which you will feel comfortable learning, exploring, and changing!

Am I convinced that reputation matters more at the graduate, professional and postgraduate degree level? Yes. But, undergrad? I think that who you are at the end of those three or four years is far a more important consideration.


These are very wise words, my friends. PLEASE read this book if you are considering US admissions at all. This is a wonderful book and I have considered applying to and attending many of the schools listed. I think these places can be better than the ivies... not everything in life is about league tables.
jjarvis
One other thing to bear in mind is that you major in a subject in America, but you have to take classes in other subjects as well (which is a mixed blessings).

That's ok I'd prefer a broader course to the specialisation sh*te you have to do in England.
Reply 16
Oy! No need to be rude about the English educational system! It's just different and you're blessed to be able to choose the one that you think will work for you!
Reply 17
Silkweed: No, I'm not actually applying anywhere in the US. Since I've got unconditional offers at some very good schools (better than I could get into here), I decided not to.

Why England? My dad's office pays most of tuition if I go abroad (long story), so it's actually cheaper than in state. I'm also half English, and I like the English system of specialization (I'm sick of having regimented courses in EVERYTHING). I went to a magnet school for science and tech, but science and tech aren't really my forte. I had to take a lot of courses in subjects that didn't really interest me, and I've had enough of that. I can read novels or nonfiction books on my own on what interests me, if I'm so inclined. I also appreciate the fact that I can legally drink in England, and I have some relatives there who I can see more often, including my grandparents (who are getting old).

How bout you? Are you applying anywhere in the states? And why England? Where in Virginia are you (PM me if you don't want other people to see this)?
Reply 18
I want to ask why your parents moved you to Roanoke, but that would be nosey so I won't. :wink:

I live in Fairfax. I was born in England, but my Dad got a job at the IMF (first for the British Treasury, then as a full staff member) when I was one, and I've lived here since. Applying to American schools sucks hard...my friends are all doing it and there's so many essays and so much paperwork.
Do you, like me, find the high drinking age here and the way it's enforced really irritating? It drives me crazy.

I haven't heard from LSE yet. I got unconditional offers at Edinburgh and Nottingham, and conditional (5-4-4 at APs) at York. Oxford rejected me. Edinburgh's really attractive. I love the city, it's a great school, lots to do there. I don't like London that much, so I'd need to visit LSE again if I got an offer. I didn't really warm to it when I visited in August--the staff at the admissions office seemed really disorganized.

Where else did you apply in England? It sounds like your credentials are strong, if your safety is VTech and you're applying at two Ivies.
Reply 19
My GPA's actually very low given my test scores (SAT-IIs a little higher than yours, 2280 on SAT-I), which is part of the reason I didn't apply in America. I've got a 3.35. Most schools would look at my test score and grades and toss me out (at least schools I'd want to go to). Your SAT-II scores actually sound very strong. What subjects? I did Lit, US History, and Math-II.

Was your interviewer Barbara Kennedy? I'm just curious, because I had a rather similar experience with the anti-American sentiment about our voting system (I'm applying for Politics/PPE, so we ended up talking about that a lot).

At York or Nottingham I'd be very close to my grandparents and aunt (my grandparents live in a village nearish to Doncaster, my aunt teaches at John Leggott in Scunthorpe). Either way, I could get to Doncaster very easily by rail from Edinburgh between terms and such, when I wanted to see family but couldn't have time/money to fly home.

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