Does an MSc degree from UK make any difference?

OP

JennLlama

Well of course a higher level of education is likely to be beneficial when applying for a job, especially if it has been achieved at a well-respected institution.
Jenn xx

Yeah... this is supposed to be the case.

BUT what I want to make sure is about the opportunities for foreign graduates with British MSc degrees. I mean:
If X has a UK Engineering degree and Y has an Australian Engineering degree + MSc from Imperial (e.g.), how will the UK employers in top companies consider both of them? Will they discriminate Y because he's got an Australian Bachelor's degree?

Reply 3

lorrybeep

13

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

Yeah... this is supposed to be the case.

BUT what I want to make sure is about the opportunities for foreign graduates with British MSc degrees. I mean:
If X has a UK Engineering degree and Y has an Australian Engineering degree + MSc from Imperial (e.g.), how will the UK employers in top companies consider both of them? Will they discriminate Y because he's got an Australian Bachelor's degree?

most uk employers would prefer uk graduates in the first place.
there are a few issues to be considered when taking on a foreign employees, for example, work permit.

Gaining a master degree from Imprial is definitely a plus especially if you want to work in the UK. but only if you have the skills and experiences to compete with uk graduates, you wont be discriminated against, or at least its less likely.

Reply 4

pete77

1

A masters degree from a Imperial would stand u in good stead depending on where u want to apply for a job if the applicants hold better overrall degrees and experiences it wont matter if they dont u hold the ACES :biggrin:

!

Reply 5

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

As we all know, US and UK degrees are usually considered to be the best in the world (mainly due to historical reasons), though there are also some excellent unis in Rest of Europe, Canada, Asia, and Australia.

Australian unis often award honours degrees (in terms of H1, H2A, H2B, and H3) which are most probably comparable to the UK degrees (1st, 2.1, 2.2, and 3rd).

When a foreign graduate (more specifically, an Engineering graduate holding an Australian degree*) get the opportunity of doing an MSc (in Engineering) at a highly regarded British uni (say, Imperial College London), can he/she be benefited from that MSc degree when applying for a relevant job in UK?

* internationally recognised, accredited in Australia, and approved by Australian Engineering Council

I have a MSc degree from Imperial. First off, in London, the type of job you can hope for with an Australian undergrad degree and an MSc from Imperial are uncomparable. You'll struggle a lot more with an Australian degree to get into positions for which London Uni grads would be applying. It certainly isn't impossible, especially if you're from a well known Australian Uni like Melbourne or Sydney but it would still be a bit of a uphill struggle.

My understanding of the MSc system is that it's really aimed for foreign students: that's quite noticeable when you look at the people who pursue these kinds of courses. If you already had an MEng/MSci... from Imperial, doing an MSc would be of little use: the only interesting thing is that a lot of recruitment things consider that an MSc is at least as good as a 2:1 MEng from the same Uni and if you get a distinction... that's even better.
People do MScs because they're not satisfied with their undergrad degree and want a degree, equivalent to an undergrad degree, from a top Uni in just 3 semesters.

In my MSc course, we basically did the whole MEng course (that's a bit of a simplification) in 12 months. The MSc course isn't really there to teach you that much but it's more there to validate your current knowledge.

Anyway, when it comes to employment, it always makes sense to have a degree from the country where you want to work. A degree from Imperial will be great in the UK but much less interesting if you were to work in the US (even though they do have a good US alumni association, like Oxford and Cambridge)

Reply 6

OP

Thanks for your opinions. :smile:

SamTheMan

You'll struggle a lot more with an Australian degree to get into positions for which London Uni grads would be applying. It certainly isn't impossible, especially if you're from a well known Australian Uni like Melbourne or Sydney but it would still be a bit of a uphill struggle.

This is what I also heard from other TSRians, but now my question is:
if my Australian degree is recognised by UK NARIC, do I still need to worry about the competition with UK uni graduates?

SamTheMan

Anyway, when it comes to employment, it always makes sense to have a degree from the country where you want to work.

Yes, this is certainly very true. Unfortunately, I'm one of those international students who cannot afford to study in a UK uni as a non-EU fee-paying student.
[Studying 3-yr BEng in a top British uni would cost me around £50,000 (incl. living expenses) or £65,000 if I study MEng - the figures are 6 million & 7.8 million respectively in my local currency :biggrin:

. Moreover, intn'l scholarships (ranging from £1000 to £3000 per annum) offered by some UK unis are not much helpful compared to the entire cost of the degree programme.]

Reply 7

shady lane

16

I'm an American who wants to emigrate to the UK (yes, I do!)
I'm applying for MSc courses for Sep 2006 entry and am hoping that will help me get a job in the UK. But I also will have a BA from Stanford University which will also help a lot, so the MSc is mostly for immigration reasons, not reputation reasons (and of course academic interest!)

Reply 8

OP

shady lane

I'm an American who wants to emigrate to the UK (yes, I do!)
I'm applying for MSc courses for Sep 2006 entry and am hoping that will help me get a job in the UK. But I also will have a BA from Stanford University which will also help a lot, so the MSc is mostly for immigration reasons, not reputation reasons (and of course academic interest!)

Well... as far as I know, only graduates (non-EEA nationals) from specific disciplines under the Science & Engineering Graduate Schemes (SEGS) are able to work (without the need for a work permit or other permission from the Home Office) for one year in UK right after completing Bachelors/Masters/PhD degrees from any UK uni. (Click here to read more.) This is very helpful because you can gain 1-yr work experience before applying for HSMP visa to continue working in UK. You can even request your UK employer (during working under SEGS) to arrange you a work permit (which is more simpler than HSMP). However, I'm not sure whether there's any such scheme for MA graduates. But if you are planning to study your MSc course in a Scottish uni then you'll be lucky to get the opportunity of working in UK for *two* years right after completing your Msc. If you haven't heard of this, then take a look at this new scheme The Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland Scheme.

So... as you said "MSc is mostly for immigration reasons", I'd say yes it is - but only for specific subjects and for specific UK unis.

Moreover, with an MSc degree and few years relevant work experience you can expect to get higher salaries than the graduates without holding a post-graduate degree. Therefore, MSc is also for reputation reasons. :smile:

Reply 9

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

Thanks for your opinions. :smile:

This is what I also heard from other TSRians, but now my question is:
if my Australian degree is recognised by UK NARIC, do I still need to worry about the competition with UK uni graduates?

Yes, this is certainly very true. Unfortunately, I'm one of those international students who cannot afford to study in a UK uni as a non-EU fee-paying student.
[Studying 3-yr BEng in a top British uni would cost me around £50,000 (incl. living expenses) or £65,000 if I study MEng - the figures are 6 million & 7.8 million respectively in my local currency :biggrin:

. Moreover, intn'l scholarships (ranging from £1000 to £3000 per annum) offered by some UK unis are not much helpful compared to the entire cost of the degree programme.]

Well the fact that your Australian degree is recognised doesn't mean much. A degree from London Met is as recognised as a degree from Imperial, yet you'll struggle to compete for recruitment with a degree from a less-known uni.

THere are loads of people in your situation who do MScs so it's quite obvious that an MSc will help. If you only have a BEng, it's even more interesting because a lot of companies choose people with Masters degrees over anyone with a BEng.

shady lane, your degree from Stanford would be recognised but in any case, for most sectors, you'd be better off with a UK degree.

Just as if I were to go to the US, I'd be better off with an engineering degree from a very average US uni like TUFTS, GeorgiaTech or BC than a degree from a prestigious UK uni (maybe outside Oxbridge).

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<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

As we all know, US and UK degrees are usually considered to be the best in the world (mainly due to historical reasons),

It's a bit more than historical reasons. The reason why Top-up fees were introduced was to be able to compete on an international level. It depends what matters to us but we shouldn't go down the path of Germany or France, who really do suffer from very uncompetitive institutions on the international level.

Britain is the 3rd country in the world for expenditure per student. That's after the US and Denmark.

Reply 10

shady lane

16

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

Well... as far as I know, only graduates (non-EEA nationals) from specific disciplines under the Science & Engineering Graduate Schemes (SEGS) are able to work (without the need for a work permit or other permission from the Home Office) for one year in UK right after completing Bachelors/Masters/PhD degrees from any UK uni. (Click here to read more.) This is very helpful because you can gain 1-yr work experience before applying for HSMP visa to continue working in UK. You can even request your UK employer (during working under SEGS) to arrange you a work permit (which is more simpler than HSMP). However, I'm not sure whether there's any such scheme for MA graduates. But if you are planning to study your MSc course in a Scottish uni then you'll be lucky to get the opportunity of working in UK for *two* years right after completing your Msc. If you haven't heard of this, then take a look at this new scheme The Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland Scheme.

So... as you said "MSc is mostly for immigration reasons", I'd say yes it is - but only for specific subjects and for specific UK unis.

Moreover, with an MSc degree and few years relevant work experience you can expect to get higher salaries than the graduates without holding a post-graduate degree. Therefore, MSc is also for reputation reasons. :smile:

I would be applying for a job with the employer getting a work permit for me. I have a better chance of that happening with a UK degree. In finance and management consulting they regularly get work permits for non-EEA nationals. In fact, I found some statistics that said 95% of work permits applied for on behalf of Americans were approved. So after the 1 or 2-year work period, I would apply under the Highly Skilled Migrant Program, and would have enough points to stay.

I've thought it all through already, but thanks for the info :smile:

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Article I just found:

Key points

Numbers of work permits issued in 2002 totalled 129,041 and are likely to exceed this in 2003.

Most applications are approved.

The work permits system has been extended to incorporate the existing Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme and the new Sectors Based Scheme and Highly Skilled Migrant Programme.

The top three industries in 2002 for which work permits were issued were health and medical services, computer services and administration, business and managerial services.

The top three occupation groups in 2002 were: IT related occupations; health associate professionals and other health/medical occupations; and managers and administrators.

The top three origin countries in 2002 were India, the USA and South Africa.

Reply 11

OP

SamTheMan

Well the fact that your Australian degree is recognised doesn't mean much. A degree from London Met is as recognised as a degree from Imperial, yet you'll struggle to compete for recruitment with a degree from a less-known uni.

So you're talking about the reputation of the university I attend, apart from the quality of degree (i.e. 1st, 2.1, accredited, recognised, etc) I get. Well... there is a non-stop debate going on in the General University Discussion forum about this matter (here's the link). From the statistical data which PQ has provided, I can see that the 'university one attends' is not actually taken into consideration.

PQ

Association of Graduate Recruiters

Minimum Criteria required for graduate jobs in 2005
2i or above: 67%
Demonstrate certain competencies: 63%
Certain number of UCAS points: 37%
2ii or above: 24%
Studied a specific subject: 23%
Relevent Work experience: 16%
Studied at certain universities: 1%

Go where you'll be happiest - get a 2i or above and work your uni careers service and you should be fine.

SamTheMan

THere are loads of people in your situation who do MScs so it's quite obvious that an MSc will help. If you only have a BEng, it's even more interesting because a lot of companies choose people with Masters degrees over anyone with a BEng.

If I do an MSc in Engineering from University of Edinburgh and then try to get a relavant job in Scotland, will I have better job prospects there than compared to the job prospects in England? Any idea?

An immigrationpolicy that gives Scotland a competitive advantage in attracting immigrants is to be undermined by a similar scheme introduced across the UK.

A version of the Fresh Talent Initiative, which allows foreign graduates to live and work in Scotland for two years, will be launhced in England. The move was announced last week by Chancellor Gordon Brown and follows complaints by universities in England that the Scotland-only programme is discriminatory.

Fresh Talent, launched this year, attempts to lure non-EU students to Scottish universities by offering short-term residency rights upon graduation. The policy was devised by Scotland's First Minister Jack McConnell as a way of stemming Scotland's declining population by boosting the number of skilled immigrants in the country.

[Click here to read more]

Reply 12

shady lane

The top three origin countries in 2002 were India, the USA and South Africa.

I'm not too surprised about India and the US but South Africa? Sure there are quite a few South Africans in London but... I would have thought there would be other countries providing far more workers.

Reply 13

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

So you're talking about the reputation of the university I attend, apart from the quality of degree (i.e. 1st, 2.1, accredited, recognised, etc) I get. Well... there is a non-stop debate going on in the General University Discussion forum about this matter (here's the link). From the statistical data which PQ has provided, I can see that the 'university one attends' is not actually taken into consideration.

The university doesn't matter that much but quite often, to be considered for the position, the university does make a difference. For many positions, they won't really bother with your application if you have a degree from a not so great uni and you can't compensate with professional experience.

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

If I do an MSc in Engineering from University of Edinburgh and then try to get a relavant job in Scotland, will I have better job prospects there than compared to the job prospects in England? Any idea?

Well considering that it's still the same country, it really wouldn't matter too much. Many English students go to Scottish Unis and there are loads of Scots at English Unis. I'd say the difference is minor. For "prestige" it makes no difference whatsoever. As for connections, if you wanted to work in Edinburgh specifically, you might find a few more companies with good ties with U of Edinburgh than in London but I don't think that it really makes any difference. That applies to any country: if you want to work in a specific region or city, you'll always find better ties in the neighbourhood but say you were to go to London with a degree from Durham or a degree from Edinburgh: it would make no difference whatsoever (if you don't look at prestige)

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<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

Well... as far as I know, only graduates (non-EEA nationals) from specific disciplines under the Science & Engineering Graduate Schemes (SEGS) are able to work (without the need for a work permit or other permission from the Home Office) for one year in UK right after completing Bachelors/Masters/PhD degrees from any UK uni. (Click here to read more.) This is very helpful because you can gain 1-yr work experience before applying for HSMP visa to continue working in UK. You can even request your UK employer (during working under SEGS) to arrange you a work permit (which is more simpler than HSMP). However, I'm not sure whether there's any such scheme for MA graduates. But if you are planning to study your MSc course in a Scottish uni then you'll be lucky to get the opportunity of working in UK for *two* years right after completing your Msc. If you haven't heard of this, then take a look at this new scheme The Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland Scheme.

So... as you said "MSc is mostly for immigration reasons", I'd say yes it is - but only for specific subjects and for specific UK unis.

Moreover, with an MSc degree and few years relevant work experience you can expect to get higher salaries than the graduates without holding a post-graduate degree. Therefore, MSc is also for reputation reasons. :smile:

I don't know much about the Fresh Talent scheme but NOT ALL degrees give you permission to stay one year after graduation. I did a course which did not entitle non-EEA students to stay in the UK. So most of the Asian students who did not find a job in finance or auditing left the UK. Personally, I'd be well pissed off.

Reply 14

OP

SamTheMan

I don't know much about the Fresh Talent scheme but NOT ALL degrees give you permission to stay one year after graduation. I did a course which did not entitle non-EEA students to stay in the UK. So most of the Asian students who did not find a job in finance or auditing left the UK. Personally, I'd be well pissed off.

Yes, you're right - not all degrees give non-EEA students to stay one year after graduation. Even it's not as easy as it seems to get a work permit when applying for a job. There are some certain rules for granting work permit and so it's not that easy unless one can be qualified for HSMP.

However, I'm quite amazed to know recently about the Fresh Talent Scheme. If you read the pdf file (which I've posted in the link), you'll see in the General Requirements under 'Academic Qualifications' of the Scheme that it says:
"In order to qualify as a Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland participant, applicants must have successfully completed an HND (Higher National Diploma), or a UK recognised undergraduate degree, Master’s degree or PhD. The qualification can be in any subject."

So, whatever degree one completes in a Scottish uni it is possible to work in Scotland for two years right after graduation. This is really a very good news for those non-EEA nationals who aim to study and later work in UK. :smile:

Reply 15

nikk

15

I personally wouldn't be prepared to study a masters when you consider how much it costs for one year. I don't thing the costs overide the benefits in the case of masters. However, if you have wads of cash then by all means study one as the more qualifications the better. However, for me personally, I am of the opinion that a PhD would be of much greater worth (if you can get onto one).

Reply 16

<A-S-H-I-Q-U-E>

Yes, you're right - not all degrees give non-EEA students to stay one year after graduation. Even it's not as easy as it seems to get a work permit when applying for a job. There are some certain rules for granting work permit and so it's not that easy unless one can be qualified for HSMP.

However, I'm quite amazed to know recently about the Fresh Talent Scheme. If you read the pdf file (which I've posted in the link), you'll see in the General Requirements under 'Academic Qualifications' of the Scheme that it says:
"In order to qualify as a Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland participant, applicants must have successfully completed an HND (Higher National Diploma), or a UK recognised undergraduate degree, Master’s degree or PhD. The qualification can be in any subject."

So, whatever degree one completes in a Scottish uni it is possible to work in Scotland for two years right after graduation. This is really a very good news for those non-EEA nationals who aim to study and later work in UK. :smile:

Indeed, you did mention that not all subjects give you a 1-year work permit.

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nikk

I personally wouldn't be prepared to study a masters when you consider how much it costs for one year. I don't thing the costs overide the benefits in the case of masters. However, if you have wads of cash then by all means study one as the more qualifications the better. However, for me personally, I am of the opinion that a PhD would be of much greater worth (if you can get onto one).

of much greater worth in which field? Only if you want to do R&D... and noone goes into Research to make money. There are lots of other sectors which are a lot better if you want to make money.

Reply 17

OP

SamTheMan

Indeed, you did mention that not all subjects give you a 1-year work permit.

Yeah.. that is only the case when someone has completed a degree from a uni located in England, Wales, or Northern Ireland. So, the only exception now lies in Scotland.

"The Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland scheme was launched on 22 June 2005 and applies to overseas students who have been awarded an Higher National Diploma (HND), undergraduate degree, Master’s degree or PhD from a Scottish university. They also have to have lived in Scotland whilst studying."

Source: The Fresh Talent: Working in Scotland Scheme

I hope I've made myself clear on this. :smile:

Reply 18

BigDog04

1

shady you are right - with a Masters from a good uni you will be fine plus top jobs will get you a work permit no problem.

@ Ashique, if you want to work in the UK its a lot easier with a UK degree. The Australian is not regarded anywhere as much as the Imperial one. You might be able to get a job here, work for a while then do the MSc like my mate at LSE. Its unfair yes but you have to follow procedure.

Reply 19

OP