Is getting a 2:2 a useless grade?

Special

It is also FAR harder to get a 2:1 at a top university than many of the lower ranked ones.

Do you have evidence to support that or is it just wild speculation?

Reply 41

Special

This is based on my observations of work required by people at various universities (particularly Bristol vs UWE).

Reply 42

nikk

Do you have evidence to support that or is it just wild speculation?

Let me put it to you that someone does law at the University of Derby and someone else does it at Oxford. Firstly the entry requirements for the latter are much higher which indicate that you have to be a better quality of student to get onto the course. Furthermore you also have to face tougher competition in terms of application ratios. Now that our hypothetical people are on their courses do you really think that given the difference in ability that has already been distinguished the courses are going to be of an equivalent standard. Following on from this if they achieve the same degree classification, 2:1 in this case, surely you are not trying to tell me that they are worth the same. People from *lesser* universities always try and use the argument that their achievement is the same when blatantly it is not, just accept that peple have different abilities and or work ethic, welcome to the real world where abilities and results count.

Reply 43

Special

This is based on my observations of work required by people at various universities (particularly Bristol vs UWE).

From what I have seen, workloads vary massively between different courses even at the same university. And even if they vary between two universities, that doesn't mean that it is easier to get the same grade at the university where the workload is apparently lower. It obviously depends heavily on the forms of assessment and the exams.

In any case, you can't make generalisations about the whole UK university system based on a few observations of a couple universities. I don't doubt that there are examples of certain universities where what you say is true, but to turn that into a sweeping statement would, in my opinion, be quite inaccurate.

Reply 44

digitalparadox

1

the civil service accepts 2:2 and if you work yourself up in the government you can get to the senior posts with good pay and also in areas such as law, the government is hard to beat when compared to private companies for enjoyment and job satisfaction.

Reply 45

kb500

Let me put it to you that someone does law at the University of Derby and someone else does it at Oxford. Firstly the entry requirements for the latter are much higher which indicate that you have to be a better quality of student to get onto the course. Furthermore you also have to face tougher competition in terms of application ratios. Now that our hypothetical people are on their courses do you really think that given the difference in ability that has already been distinguished the courses are going to be of an equivalent standard. Following on from this if they achieve the same degree classification, 2:1 in this case, surely you are not trying to tell me that they are worth the same. People from *lesser* universities always try and use the argument that their achievement is the same when blatantly it is not, just acdept that peple have different abilities and or work ethic, welcome to the real world where abilities and results count.

Your entire argument is based on an assumption that people always apply to, and indeed get into the best university that their ability affords. This is simply not the case. Although it may not be so apparent from some of the people on this forum, many people choose their university for other reasons than purely because The Times has placed a low number next to it in a table. An entry requirement merely represents the popularity of the course. And just because a particular entry requirement may be CCC at A-level, that does not mean that students that achieve higher grades are not on that course. Therefore your argument is invalid.

Although I forget the name now, there is an independent organisation that evaluates the universities and publishes its report each year. One of the things they assess is the standards of education including course content and the difficultly of assessments set. After a recent disscussion with one of my lecturers at Plymouth, I know for a fact that they are regularly checked, to ensure that standards are kept to a high level. Again, I accept there will always be the odd few exceptions, but on the whole, the level of difficultly will be broadly the same.

Reply 46

nikk

Your entire argument is based on an assumption that people always apply to, and indeed get into the best university that their ability affords. This is simply not the case. Although it may not be so apparent from some of the people on this forum, many people choose their university for other reasons than purely because The Times has placed a low number next to it in a table. An entry requirement merely represents the popularity of the course. And just because a particular entry requirement may be CCC at A-level, that does not mean that students that achieve higher grades are not on that course. Therefore your argument is invalid.

I grant you that people may not always apply to the best university they can get into for reasons other than academic ability but I also think these cases are a small minority and cannot be used to mask the general trends. Secondly in terms of ability, what do you mean people didn;t get into the best univeristy they could based on ability if you didn't get in you weren't deemed good enough end of story no excuses. Again I think league tables are self perpetuating in that if they they give universities a higher ranking then this attracts better students who then advance the repuation of the univeristy still further. Also entry requirements, why do you think a course is popular, possibly because it's of a good standard? Of course students may exceed the entry requirements but generally thats because whatever univeristy they are at was the best one they could get into.

Although I forget the name now, there is an independent organisation that evaluates the universities and publishes its report each year. One of the things they assess is the standards of education including course content and the difficultly of assessments set. After a recent disscussion with one of my lecturers at Plymouth, I know for a fact that they are regularly checked, to ensure that standards are kept to a high level. Again, I accept there will always be the odd few exceptions, but on the whole, the level of difficultly will be broadly the same.

Ok please don't tell me that you really think that all courses are of an equal standard regardless of university, that's frankly laughable.

Reply 47

Special

It simply does come down to who the course is catered for. At the top universities courses are usually designed for people capable of bbb or higher at a-level: at the lower league universities courses are designed for people with lower grades, hence are easier.
This does not mean that a 2i at a lower university means nothing, many employers (not the top ones) do not assume a difference between universities, so as long as you get a 2i you are generally OK.

Reply 48

kb500

Ok please don't tell me that you really think that all courses are of an equal standard regardless of university, that's frankly laughable.

If you read my posts properly then you would see that I admitted there are exceptions. However, there are many steps taken by universities to ensure that they are evenly matched. To spell it out for you, I never claimed that all universities were evenly matched. Understand now? :rolleyes:

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Special

It simply does come down to who the course is catered for.

Then why have you suggested otherwise below? You are not making any sense.

Special

At the top universities courses are usually designed for people capable of bbb or higher at a-level: at the lower league universities courses are designed for people with lower grades, hence are easier. This does not mean that a 2i at a lower university means nothing, many employers (not the top ones) do not assume a difference between universities, so as long as you get a 2i you are generally OK.

Reply 49

kb500

Ok please don't tell me that you really think that all courses are of an equal standard regardless of university, that's frankly laughable.

If you read my posts properly then you would see that I admitted there are exceptions. However, there are many steps taken by universities to ensure that they are evenly matched. To spell it out for you, I never claimed that all universities were evenly matched. Understand now? :rolleyes:

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Special

It simply does come down to who the course is catered for. At the top universities courses are usually designed for people capable of bbb or higher at a-level: at the lower league universities courses are designed for people with lower grades, hence are easier.
This does not mean that a 2i at a lower university means nothing, many employers (not the top ones) do not assume a difference between universities, so as long as you get a 2i you are generally OK.

Well I guess that is just your opinion based on your observations. From my own experience, I would say I completely disagree with you, but there is little point in continuing to discuss this without any firm statistics, which I don't have the time to dig out at the moment.

Reply 50

tiny_nina

my brother got a 2:2 this year, and he did find it harder to get a job however after 3 months did manage to get on a graduate scheme for PWC because of the extra stuff he did and his personality so it is possible to do jsut as well, because PWC say they want 2:1 minimum but still took on my brother

Reply 51

tigger1430

7

Where my mum works (she is mainly in charge of hiring) she considers a 2:2 to be a 'drinking degree' therefore would need a lot more than a degree to get a job with her - i.e. extra curriculars, voluntary work, work experience and a personality to fit the job. A 2:2 is most certainly not worthless though - you just need to make an extra effort to prove yourself to prospective employers

Reply 52

nikk

If you read my posts properly then you would see that I admitted there are exceptions. However, there are many steps taken by universities to ensure that they are evenly matched. To spell it out for you, I never claimed that all universities were evenly matched. Understand now? :rolleyes:

Lol your attempt at patronising will fall down flat because I'm saying it's not the exception it's the rule, there is a difference in standard of both university and course at different ends of a league table whether you like it or not. Step into the real world, I'm sure people who claim that their degree from a lesser university is of equal or similar merit will be less forthcoming with their opinions when they actually have to use their degree's to get a job because employers discriminate on the basis of univeristy and so they should.

Reply 53

digitalparadox

1

Maybe we should just all aim to get a 2:1 instead of worrying about getting a 2:2 :biggrin:

Reply 54