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Reply 20
Uruguay condemns violent actions by both sides and is hopeful that the cycle of violence can be stopped.
Reply 21
teehar
We do not agree with this attack. However, in answer to your question, i'm sure the often used American phrase would be appropriate in this case. the civilians were not part of the Israeli defens forces but were as you would say "collateral damage". :rolleyes:

Sorry?
United Arab Emirates condemns such actions, but also would condemn any retaliation by Israel on Innocent Palestinian lifes that it seems to get away with, just for being 'democratic'.
Reply 23
The representative from Venezuela is out of order as one cannot condemn other nations for working within the confines of the United Nations by submitting proposals
what

This was not an attack solely on the Israeli military, it was on a roadblock which also had civilians (including palestinians) in the immediate area. That is how the attack killed palestinian civilians, because it wasn't an attack just on a military target. Thus Micronesia expects Venezuela to condemn the attack as terrorism
This attack was on an Israeli military checkpoint. Unfortunately, innocent civiliand died as well. This is regrettable but as the saying goes 'if occupation is ugly, resistance isn't going to be pretty.'
After a long technical delay, the Palestinian Authority joins the Israeli government in condemning these and all other such attacks against Israel, as it and its predecessors has condemned them since 1985.

Palestine feels it has to clarify some facts, however. The delegate of Micronesia seems to have, especially in subsequent posts, ignored the difference between "Palestinians" and "terrorists". The Palestinian peoples, and the Palestinian Authority that has been elected to represent them, are not terrorists. There is no "Palestinian...campaign of terrorist violence", and there is no "Palestinian war being waged on Israel". On the contrary, we see each other as partners working toward a peaceful goal, and neither of us condone this sort of terrorism. We are exerting our greatest efforts to bring these people to justice.

Unfortunately, our greatest efforts are far from enough.

This is the point that my fellow delegate of Saudi Arabia was making. To eradicate terrorism, one must strike at its root cause. Fear, poverty, the belief of oppression, the perception of injustice: these are what drives the terrorist to her violent means. Eliminate these, and we have eliminated the terrorist. Terrorism cannot continue in an environment that provides no reasons for it. But if, on the other hand, we persist in maintaining this environment, a sea of grumbling will ensure terrorist organizations always have their catch of recruits. Mere arrests will do no good. Chop off one dragon's head, and it grows two more out of resentment for you. If other delegations, as is their right, ask for the reason neither the Israelis nor ourselves have been able to crush the terrorist threat, it is because, with the oppression the Palestinians see themselves living under, it is impossible! It is no longer a question of blame, or, as the Micronesian delegation would suggest, one of Israel's "responsibility" for the Palestinian economy and the safety of the Palestinian people: it is necessary to be "responsible" if we are to remove this iron curtain. If we are serious about fighting the terrorist threat, the barriers that crush the Palestinian economy must be lifted. The attacks on innocent Palestinians, ever the actions to create martyrs, must cease. The demolishing of Palestinian homes, sending innocent families as victims into the night, should be reconsidered against the less harmful alternative of search-and-removal.

We are glad that the Israeli government and mine are both taking cooperative action against these undemocratic felons (surely you meant the terrorists were undemocratic earlier, not the Palestinian peoples?). It is our sincere hope that the establishment of the Palestinian state will be accelerated, that we will soon create the environment we have both dreamed of, wherein no terrorism is desired or necessary. We feel that such freedom and prosperity, and only such freedom and prosperity, will lead to the goal to which both our peoples strive.
The Holy See condemns all attacks on fellow human beings.
Reply 26
digitalparadox
United Arab Emirates condemns such actions, but also would condemn any retaliation by Israel on Innocent Palestinian lifes that it seems to get away with, just for being 'democratic'.

Israel would like to point out that any retaliation taken is on terrorists, not innocent lives. Thank you.
Reply 27
gemgems89
Israel would like to point out that any retaliation taken is on terrorists, not innocent lives. Thank you.


How many times have you said that before and it has turned out to be false. Syria believes that Israel should show some courage and treat the innocent Palestinians with dignity, and makesure there is no 'collateral damage'.
Reply 28
Israel would like to point out that any retaliation taken is on terrorists, not innocent lives. Thank you.

The rather indiscriminate use of sonic booms springs to mind, along with the fact that the crushing of the Palestinian economy mentioned above obviously affects civilians. Not to mention the razing of innocent peoples homes. I seem to find myself repeating what the delegate for the Palestinian authority has already written - perhaps Israel would find it helpful to read it.
Reply 29
The Republic of Sierra Leone condemns all violence between the State of Israel and Palestinian forces. Howeverm every nation knows it will continue long after all alive on this Earth now are gone.
Reply 30
Syntax
The rather indiscriminate use of sonic booms springs to mind
Not indiscriminate. It takes planning to sonic boom in the right places.

Syntax
along with the fact that the crushing of the Palestinian economy mentioned above obviously affects civilians.
What a ridiculously stupid point. There is economic downturn because of the Intifada. That is what happens. The palestinians launched a terror war on Israel, they cannot simultaneously demand economic support.

Syntax
Not to mention the razing of innocent peoples homes.
Israel razes those structures which are either illegally built (which is perfectly allowed), pose threats to security, are used by terrorists. They used to demolish the houses of suicide bombers, they don't at the moment.
All these are justified in the eyes of the Marshall Islands.
Reply 31
The Republic of Sierra Leone feels that Israel is acting illegally in many ways in Palestinian territories, not to mention the belief by many that just occupying them is illegal. That said, the Republic also believes that many nations can work together to solve these problems, peacefully and democratically.
WHO?
After a long technical delay, the Palestinian Authority joins the Israeli government in condemning these and all other such attacks against Israel, as it and its predecessors has condemned them since 1985.

Palestine feels it has to clarify some facts, however. The delegate of Micronesia seems to have, especially in subsequent posts, ignored the difference between "Palestinians" and "terrorists". The Palestinian peoples, and the Palestinian Authority that has been elected to represent them, are not terrorists. There is no "Palestinian...campaign of terrorist violence", and there is no "Palestinian war being waged on Israel". On the contrary, we see each other as partners working toward a peaceful goal, and neither of us condone this sort of terrorism. We are exerting our greatest efforts to bring these people to justice.

Unfortunately, our greatest efforts are far from enough.

This is the point that my fellow delegate of Saudi Arabia was making. To eradicate terrorism, one must strike at its root cause. Fear, poverty, the belief of oppression, the perception of injustice: these are what drives the terrorist to her violent means. Eliminate these, and we have eliminated the terrorist. Terrorism cannot continue in an environment that provides no reasons for it. But if, on the other hand, we persist in maintaining this environment, a sea of grumbling will ensure terrorist organizations always have their catch of recruits. Mere arrests will do no good. Chop off one dragon's head, and it grows two more out of resentment for you. If other delegations, as is their right, ask for the reason neither the Israelis nor ourselves have been able to crush the terrorist threat, it is because, with the oppression the Palestinians see themselves living under, it is impossible! It is no longer a question of blame, or, as the Micronesian delegation would suggest, one of Israel's "responsibility" for the Palestinian economy and the safety of the Palestinian people: it is necessary to be "responsible" if we are to remove this iron curtain. If we are serious about fighting the terrorist threat, the barriers that crush the Palestinian economy must be lifted. The attacks on innocent Palestinians, ever the actions to create martyrs, must cease. The demolishing of Palestinian homes, sending innocent families as victims into the night, should be reconsidered against the less harmful alternative of search-and-removal.

We are glad that the Israeli government and mine are both taking cooperative action against these undemocratic felons (surely you meant the terrorists were undemocratic earlier, not the Palestinian peoples?). It is our sincere hope that the establishment of the Palestinian state will be accelerated, that we will soon create the environment we have both dreamed of, wherein no terrorism is desired or necessary. We feel that such freedom and prosperity, and only such freedom and prosperity, will lead to the goal to which both our peoples strive.

Holland has two words to say on the PA's response on this matter.
'Lip Service;.

Holland would like to see actions and not words define the PA's attitude to terrorism against Israel.

The PA states that perceived injustice and oppression are largely to blame for terrorists actions. When the government openly causes the propegation of this perception through its attitudes, laws, press-conferences and speeches, how can one honestly say that the PA has nothing to do with terrorism.
Reply 33
NeverMindThat
Holland has two words to say on the PA's response on this matter.
'Lip Service;.

Holland would like to see actions and not words define the PA's attitude to terrorism against Israel.

The PA states that perceived injustice and oppression are largely to blame for terrorists actions. When the government openly causes the propegation of this perception through its attitudes, laws, press-conferences and speeches, how can one honestly say that the PA has nothing to do with terrorism.

The Republic of Sierra Leone condemns the representative for Holland for insulting the Palestinian Authority's comments. Both sides in the Palestine / Israel dispute are working together for peace, and neither side is giving "lip service" as far as the Republic is concerned.
Reply 34
What a ridiculously stupid point. There is economic downturn because of the Intifada. That is what happens. The palestinians launched a terror war on Israel, they cannot simultaneously demand economic support.

In Uruguay's humble opinion, the economic repression/violence thing is a chick/egg scenario - it could also be said that the "terror war" continues because, amongst other reasons, Palestine is not able to have a viable economy or safety for its people.

As for justifying the razing of Palestinian homes.. a quick google search found examples of UN experts condemning "Israel's systematic demolition of Palestinian homes, water sources and livelihoods in the Rafah refugee camp, describing the practice illegal and calling for international action if it continues ... The United Nations estimates that during May, 3,451 Palestinians were rendered homeless. Palestinian livelihoods have also been decimated by Israel's razing of land, including olive groves and destruction of water sources." All these practices exacerbate the tremendous difficulties already being faced by the Palestinian people, and have a disproportionate effect on women and on children and the elderly," the experts said, stating that the actions were in breach of international human rights law."
A poor economy does not make people desire the destruction of a state and strap bombs to themselves. There is a poor economy because the palestinians have never simply developed it, instead relying on massive amounts of aid, etc.
And, well done, you found a UN person to ciriticise Israel. The UN is a joke when it comes to Israel, as was demonstrated by a high-level UN meeting (attended by Kofi Annan) which had prominently displayed a map which didn't include Israel.
NeverMindThat
Holland has two words to say on the PA's response on this matter.
'Lip Service;.

Holland would like to see actions and not words define the PA's attitude to terrorism against Israel.

The PA states that perceived injustice and oppression are largely to blame for terrorists actions. When the government openly causes the propegation of this perception through its attitudes, laws, press-conferences and speeches, how can one honestly say that the PA has nothing to do with terrorism.


There is a dangerous attitude we must fight against, one that causes many in the US domestic and international community to criticise George Bush, because they think he has adopted it, and one that, despite its good intensions, has only served to propagate terrorist actions. This is the attitude where "we don't fight terrorists by attacking the causes! We fight terrorists by hunting them down and killing them!"

It is true that terrorists must be brought to justice. But such a limited mindset, that violence can be solved merely through violence, is not sufficient. Rather, it rallies even more sympathy for the terrorist cause, as innocent, moderate civilians see their peoples victimized in the name of counter-terrorism. As indirect victimization through a strangled economy from Israel's barriers takes the view. Why do you think that the US is losing the war on terrorism?

We are not entirely certain of what your delegation refers to in "statements, press conferences, etc" that promote any terrorist cause. I certainly hope you are not blaming us for pointing out the human rights violations that do occur. If your nation were suffering from such things, I am sure you would wish to lodge complaints as well.

In the meantime, we are, however much you may believe it merely "lip-service", making our best efforts to rid us of these terrorist organizations. Only, as I mentioned before, even our greatest efforts will never eliminate the terrorist if the roots and causes of terrorism are not erased. We merely ask that we actually pay attention to some of these causes, rather than remain stuck in the mindset that violence is the ultimate answer.
JonathanH
A poor economy does not make people desire the destruction of a state and strap bombs to themselves. There is a poor economy because the palestinians have never simply developed it, instead relying on massive amounts of aid, etc.
And, well done, you found a UN person to ciriticise Israel. The UN is a joke when it comes to Israel, as was demonstrated by a high-level UN meeting (attended by Kofi Annan) which had prominently displayed a map which didn't include Israel.


The delegate of Micronesia seems to be unable to understand some of the basic needs for an economy to grow. The ability for at least internal trade is one. A working infrastructure is another. Unfortunately, Israel has historically smothered the former by imposing movement restrictions through one form or another (including barriers) and the latter by demolishion or raids. Nor is instability an attribute, the fact that any building can potentially be demolished, that attracts much foreign direct investment.

To see what we are recovering from, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2253328.stm

When the Israelis are percieved as the stranglers of ordinary civilians, yes, yes they will "make people desire the destruction of a state and strap bombs to themselves".
See, this is what you cannot see. Why are there internal restrictions on movement?
Because of terrorism. Why are there raids? Because of terrorism. Why are there demolitions? Because of terrorism.
It seems incredibly simple, end the terrorism, Israel can end all anti-terror measures and then the economy can be developed.
The palestinians have the choice between terror or development.
They have had billions of dollars of aid to build an infrastructure and develop, where does it all go? Corrupt officials and terror. See the pattern?
Reply 39
JonathanH
See, this is what you cannot see. Why are there internal restrictions on movement?
Because of terrorism. Why are there raids? Because of terrorism. Why are there demolitions? Because of terrorism.
It seems incredibly simple, end the terrorism, Israel can end all anti-terror measures and then the economy can be developed.
The palestinians have the choice between terror or development.
They have had billions of dollars of aid to build an infrastructure and develop, where does it all go? Corrupt officials and terror. See the pattern?


There are terrorists who are Palestinian. There are fraudsters who are Israeli. That doesn't mean the West should refuse to trade with Israel. A better solution has to be found: one which doesn't involve the oppression of an entire people.

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