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Benefits - Only for lazy, stupid people....

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    (Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
    "Get off benefits, earn some real money"
    "Get a real job"
    " Lazy people who sponge of the government"

    Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of people making these ridiculous statements about people on the welfare system. Do you think it's as easy as that...?

    My mum has to apply for new jobs everyday, and show proof that she's done it, she has to attend pointless meetings, and if she doesn't she loses money....

    My mum has had the opportunity to work several time but it doesn't make sense!

    2 kids, one of which is 13 and needs full-time support, can we agree that a 13 year old needs a mum there before she goes to school and when she comes back....? Yes we can.....

    Put it this way....



    Amount of money gained from welfare system = 100 pound per week
    Working full-time 35 hours p/w, spending no time with their kids, not being able to feed one of them, and damaging your health for **** pay... = £80...

    If she went to work she'd earn less and sacrifice one of her children, I don't think so...

    Yes, fair enough if you're a single person/mum/dad or whatever, but don't generalize everyone on the system....

    EDIT - Those figures used aren't real, in other words I'm saying she'd earn less working whilst making stupid compromises..
    I haven't trawled through the whole sorry thread, so these points may have been made before, but:

    1.) Did your mum not consider either a) getting married before knocking sprogs out, or b) using a condom? Either action would have prevented the situation in which she is sole carer for a family. Why should the state give her the privileged of spending the day with her son rather than at work, like the rest of us? Particulalry when she has been irresponsible enough to get herself in to this state.

    2.) The main conclusion that I draw from the OP's post is that if benefits offer a better deal than work - then they are too high. simple. When benefits disincentivise work, we have a problem. As I ranted on a previous thread:

    Even if we could afford it, the welfare state would still need to be rethought as it is bloated to such a degree that is has a damaging affect on society. Now you can plug yourself, and your brood of illegitimate kids from assorted fathers, into a never ending supply of handouts (feel a bit down? Well here, have some more cash) which will keep you in supply of playstation games, fags and pizzas from the cradle to the grave. As the Guardian article above states, 1 in 6 kids grow up in families who have never had a family member in employment - and the statistics show that after growing up in such an environment it is very hard to break the addiction to state support.

    I'm sure the advocates of a welfare state back in the 1920s and 30s would be dismayed at what it has become: It is not a helping hand, or a temporary safety net to ensure that those looking for work are able to put 3 meals a day on the table for their families; it is instead seen as an entitlement. It has become a stultifying force that disincentivises work and creates a class of infantalised dependents who can never be weened from the milky tit of the state.
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    People wonder why the country is in so much debt, when you have so many wasters who over the course of their lifetime take more out than they put in ie benefits, public services etc then something has to be done. Just look at Greece and where being lazy got them!
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    (Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
    .
    + rep because I'm fed up of it too.

    I was brought up on benefits and my mum still relies on them. What else do you do when you have no other choice? My mum physically and mentally can't work, if we don't claim benefits we don't eat.
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    get some qualifications. If you are perfectly able to work but prefer benefits.
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    (Original post by coolmushroom)
    People wonder why the country is in so much debt, when you have so many wasters who over the course of their lifetime take more out than they put in ie benefits, public services etc then something has to be done. Just look at Greece and where being lazy got them!
    Most of our debt comes from bailing out the banks. :pierre:
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Most of our debt comes from bailing out the banks. :pierre:
    Not if you look in the long term of what they have put into the economy vs what they have taken from it. It's about a 270:1 ratio
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    (Original post by teadrinker)
    I haven't trawled through the whole sorry thread, so these points may have been made before, but:

    1.) Did your mum not consider either a) getting married before knocking sprogs out, or b) using a condom? Either action would have prevented the situation in which she is sole carer for a family. Why should the state give her the privileged of spending the day with her son rather than at work, like the rest of us? Particulalry when she has been irresponsible enough to get herself in to this state.

    2.) The main conclusion that I draw from the OP's post is that if benefits offer a better deal than work - then they are too high. simple. When benefits disincentivise work, we have a problem. As I ranted on a previous thread:

    Even if we could afford it, the welfare state would still need to be rethought as it is bloated to such a degree that is has a damaging affect on society. Now you can plug yourself, and your brood of illegitimate kids from assorted fathers, into a never ending supply of handouts (feel a bit down? Well here, have some more cash) which will keep you in supply of playstation games, fags and pizzas from the cradle to the grave. As the Guardian article above states, 1 in 6 kids grow up in families who have never had a family member in employment - and the statistics show that after growing up in such an environment it is very hard to break the addiction to state support.

    I'm sure the advocates of a welfare state back in the 1920s and 30s would be dismayed at what it has become: It is not a helping hand, or a temporary safety net to ensure that those looking for work are able to put 3 meals a day on the table for their families; it is instead seen as an entitlement. It has become a stultifying force that disincentivises work and creates a class of infantalised dependents who can never be weened from the milky tit of the state.

    In 30 years when you're in your mid-fourties. I want you to stop and think abotu your situation. WHy didn't I do this/that... **** happens
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    (Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
    In 30 years when you're in your mid-fourties [sic]. I want you to stop and think abotu your situation. WHy didn't I do this/that... **** happens
    The difference is even if I **** up, I won't feel entitled to state help to provide me with a middle class income.

    This is the PROBLEM with the current bloated welfare state. We don't NEED to THINK. We know we can live as irresponsibly as we want, and the nanny state will be there to wipe our arse and keep us in supply of all we need.

    People need to gain some self respect and grow up. They need to take responsibility for their own actions. By doing this, hopefully, as a society, we will mature and start to advance.

    If you are as dumb to live life by such a passive empty philosophy as "**** happens", **** most certainly will happen. Why not live your life by the philosophy "**** happens, so I'll plan for the future"?
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    Being on benefits is not nice. It's okay once in a while when you need a long break. But what are people meant to do if they cannot find work? Grovel to bosses, sleep outside of shops, rant and rave through a megaphone, untill they give you a job?
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Being on benefits is not nice. It's okay once in a while when you need a long break. But what are people meant to do if they cannot find work? Grovel to bosses, sleep outside of shops, rant and rave through a megaphone, untill they give you a job?
    I don;t think anyone is advocating REMOVING benefits for those looking for work.

    They are more concerned about tightening up a system that is prone to abuse.

    Your comment does not add anything meaningful to the discussion.
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    (Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
    In 30 years when you're in your mid-fourties. I want you to stop and think abotu your situation. WHy didn't I do this/that... **** happens
    Well? DO you have a response? Anything else to bleat? Or are you out collecting your GIRO?
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    Particularly since seeing my dad have to deal with the benefits system, the ignorance of people on this issue has really started to piss me off.
    Only a minority of the people who claim benefits from the state are "lazy" or "scroungers".

    Also the paper work involved takes my dad a solid 4 hours 2 or 3 times a week. Believe me when I say that he does not want to be doing that! The various organisations are a ****ing nightmare as well; sending out three separate letters on three separate days all saying contradictory things, randomly deciding to cancel all payments for no reason (and then this can only be resolved by going through an "appeal", which takes 2 months and involves re-submitting all his info for the last 3 years)... if he were lazy he would get **** all.
    This is on top of his job as a driving instructor (he gets less than 16 hours a week, can't get any more).
    Of course he'd prefer to have a job and applies for scores of them but he can't find anything.


    People who say that everyone should just be cut off if they are too "lazy" to get a job just disgust me. They clearly have lived very comfortable lives and have no idea what they're on about.
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    (Original post by Blueflare)
    Particularly since seeing my dad have to deal with the benefits system, the ignorance of people on this issue has really started to piss me off.
    Only a minority of the people who claim benefits from the state are "lazy" or "scroungers".

    Also the paper work involved takes my dad a solid 4 hours 2 or 3 times a week. Believe me when I say that he does not want to be doing that! The various organisations are a ****ing nightmare as well; sending out three separate letters on three separate days all saying contradictory things, randomly deciding to cancel all payments for no reason (and then this can only be resolved by going through an "appeal", which takes 2 months and involves re-submitting all his info for the last 3 years)... if he were lazy he would get **** all.
    This is on top of his job as a driving instructor (he gets less than 16 hours a week, can't get any more).
    Of course he'd prefer to have a job and applies for scores of them but he can't find anything.


    People who say that everyone should just be cut off if they are too "lazy" to get a job just disgust me. They clearly have lived very comfortable lives and have no idea what they're on about.
    The majority aren't lazy? Oh that's great. What percentage are lazy scroungers then? 49% 30% 20%?

    even if it's only 5% who brazenly scrounge, it's 5% too much. People like your dad (if he is fully deserving of our tax money) should welcome a reform of the system as it will help remove some of the stigma of being on benefits. We should ALL welcome a cleaner, better, m ore efficient system.

    And he has to spend 4 hours a week filling in forms hey? My god, I bet the hearts of people who clock up 45 hours a week in the work place are collectively bleeding a river right now.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again, you can't justify a bad system by picking out individual deserving cases. Likewise, I can't prove the system is broken by picking out cases of extreme scrounging such as the marathon runner disability claimant. The statistics that point to a broken system are the one's a linked to in a previous post of mine (here) which suggest our levels of disability benefits claims are twice that of our neighbors, and more than three times that of Japan. We are NOT a nation of cripples - something is amiss. Also 1 in 6 kids lives in a family that has no employed members - TWICE the EU average. These statistics are of concern to British tax payers, whether you, your dad, or anyone else, cares to think otherwise.

    Alas, by the looks pof this thread, the friends and family of benefiteers must be too ignorant to get it...
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    So much ignorance and stupidity in one thread.

    The debate is pointless though so I would be getting involved in it.

    I will just leave this here: :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    So much ignorance and stupidity in one thread.

    The debate is pointless though so I would be getting involved in it.

    I will just leave this here: :facepalm2:
    The debate is pointless? It might be pointless to you - but personally, I have my doubts that a discussion about the benefits system, one of the key issues of current domestic politics, is pointless.

    But I'll give you one thing: you offer slightly more insight than Ed Milliband
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    Yeah my dad is always complaining that I don't have a job, but it's almost impossible to get one; especially when you're 20 and have no work experience. I signed onto the dole because I thought they'd help me but LOL, such a flawed system, I can see why people abuse it.
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    (Original post by teadrinker)
    The debate is pointless? It might be pointless to you - but personally, I have my doubts that a discussion about the benefits system, one of the key issues of current domestic politics, is pointless.
    It's pointless because I've had it many, many time before and this thread indicates that, for the most part, one whole side of the argument is not being represented intelligently at all. The subject is very important, this specific debate isn't - at least, as you say, not to me.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    It's pointless because I've had it many, many time before and this thread indicates that, for the most part, one whole side of the argument is not being represented intelligently at all. The subject is very important, this specific debate isn't - at least, as you say, not to me.
    As the leader of the 'TSR Labour Party', surely it is not too much to ask that you put forward your, or your party's, view in such a discussion. Real MPs have to hold their noses and put up with their banal uneducated electorated too. And who knows, I may even vote for you...
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    (Original post by Sagacious)
    The majority of people on benefits abuse the system. Yes, I bet 85% are 'Benefit Abusers'.
    Bull****.
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    (Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
    Will not respond with anything worth you replying to until you read the bold part, then you'll feel stupid. Once you acknowledge that, I'll then debate/argue with you. But until you learn to decipher simple text, that just.... can't happen.
    Well use some proper figures then idiot. If you are really in the situation you claim it wouldn't be that difficult.
Updated: March 19, 2012
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