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Benefits - Only for lazy, stupid people....
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Original post by OU Student
I've been told that if I'm genuine, (some believe I am not
) then I have nothing to worry about. 19.5% of genuine DLA claimants will lose their DLA under the new system. Hence the uproar.
) then I have nothing to worry about. 19.5% of genuine DLA claimants will lose their DLA under the new system. Hence the uproar.Those reassurrances are meaningless without knowing exactly what the examination procedure is going to entail. People have been knocked off Invalidity Benefits because they were able to perform a 'one-off' task such as lifting a pen off a table...because the private enterprise examiners who are paid according to how many people they assess as 'capable of work', have judged them capable of doing a job that entails writing! Never mind not being able to walk, talk, hear or see...
Do we trust those who are being paid by results designed to reduce the social security bill, to make a fair, independent and measured decision? It would be naive of us to do so.
You can't compare people in two different situations; which is what many do.
Exactly. The coaltion government keeps telling us that 'one size doesn't fit all' when it comes to matters of education. Yet they forget this mantra when it comes to matters of economics.
in all honesty someone like Hitler is what Britain needs
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
Original post by Sheep
in all honesty someone like Hitler is what Britain needs
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
I hope you aren't actually serious.
You'll need to back up your claim that the "majority" of benefit claimants are "laughing", including those who qualify for disability allowance. I can assure you, many of these people do not find it at all funny.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by OU Student
HIV is different - if you have HIV, you'll pass it on to your children. Having an illness or disability doesn't mean you can't cope with raising a child. I have a friend who is disabled, as are his wife and son. And they manage.
not necessarily, you can take anti-retroviral drugs to reduce the risk significantly.
Its selfish because the child's parent will probably be dead within 10 years.
No, but certain illness/disabilities can make it a lot more difficult if not impossible.
Indeed, learning difficulties (even in a person who lives independently) is often a reason social services remove a child.
Original post by minimarshmallow
Because of how short my parents are and their normal birth weights and my normal birth weight it was a statistical anomaly that my brother had such a high birth weight which is what caused the condition to worsen.
And no, if someone with HIV wants a child and can have one without passing on their disease to their partner/their child (I believe this can be done with IVF as the condition is carried in bodily fluids and not sperm/eggs) then they should be allowed to. Although I don't think these are directly comparable, as rheumatoid arthritis is not a choice and 9/10 HIV is caused by having unprotected sex.
And no, if someone with HIV wants a child and can have one without passing on their disease to their partner/their child (I believe this can be done with IVF as the condition is carried in bodily fluids and not sperm/eggs) then they should be allowed to. Although I don't think these are directly comparable, as rheumatoid arthritis is not a choice and 9/10 HIV is caused by having unprotected sex.
Couldn't your mum have had a c-section?
Of course its not a choice to have HIV!
Its passed on more easily through Anal sex, and how would it be your fault if you caught it from a long-term partner, who unbeknown to you, had been sleeping around/having anal sex?
Do you feel that all smokers have chosen to have lung cancer?
All fat people to have heart attacks?
All drinkers to have liver disease?
No, of course not.
Original post by Sheep
in all honesty someone like Hitler is what Britain needs
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on benefits are laughing, they get free money without having to do any work, why would they even feel bad about that I know I wouldn't if that was me. It's just a really stupid system and far too many people abusing it, really messing up economy
I know Sheep, that you are portraying a personality that you are not in possession of. You are generally a decent sort of guy, but assuming that I didn't know you better, I would have to say to you "Let's just hope then that you never become sick or unemployed or disabled in this idyllic 'Hitler' paradise you portray.
I recently went to Dachau and learnt how Hitler and his fellow Nazis made parents feel guilty about not having their disabled children 'put down'. And I also learnt how the captives were made to feel like worms under one's feet if they did not voluntarily hang themselves with the hanging ropes left in their cells every night.
Every one of those on the guided tour felt physically sickened by man's inhumanity to man, and I really felt that this attitude is being perpetuated in this country by the leader of the Tory-led coalition.
The attitudes of some contributors to this thread make this fear very real by their lack of empathy and compassion for those who are amongt the most disadvantaged people in our society.
You see, this sort of attitude is like an insidious virus. It spreads and becomes more outrageous as it is given emboldenment by its supporters, until eventually we might have a country full of Hitler-types as the man himself was in his last crazed days. And yet we perpetuate the myth that we are a moral country with a tolerant attitude.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by minimarshmallow
I too learned right from wrong, because I had decent parents.
My brother was forced out of his high school, gets beaten up in the street, had a guy knock one of the crowns off his tooth only last month because the same people have bullied the pair of us since primary school because we're the poor kids with the disabled mother, and they were 'better than us'. They kept getting away with it, it kept escalating. We have good parents who keep telling us that they're wrong and we're not, but its easy to lose sight of that.
Statistics don't lie, it doesn't happen to everyone but it is statistically more likely. Are you going to go around and tell every bullied child its their choice to not commit a crime, even though they're being physically and psychologically bullied day in day out for something that their parents did? You're naive if you think that'll work.
I'm still not saying that the government should feed a life of luxury, and I do think people should be encouraged to work. But punishing the children for their parents' mistakes solves nothing, and it creates a circle of poverty where people cannot better themselves because they can't afford it.
My brother was forced out of his high school, gets beaten up in the street, had a guy knock one of the crowns off his tooth only last month because the same people have bullied the pair of us since primary school because we're the poor kids with the disabled mother, and they were 'better than us'. They kept getting away with it, it kept escalating. We have good parents who keep telling us that they're wrong and we're not, but its easy to lose sight of that.
Statistics don't lie, it doesn't happen to everyone but it is statistically more likely. Are you going to go around and tell every bullied child its their choice to not commit a crime, even though they're being physically and psychologically bullied day in day out for something that their parents did? You're naive if you think that'll work.
I'm still not saying that the government should feed a life of luxury, and I do think people should be encouraged to work. But punishing the children for their parents' mistakes solves nothing, and it creates a circle of poverty where people cannot better themselves because they can't afford it.
Well, if you feel bad because you were bullied, why didn't you just pick on someone else to make yourself feel better?
Fat children are fair game, as far as most people are concerned, because they could just go on a diet if they don't want to be picked on.
Or there are always dyslexic/learning difficulty children.
Original post by Elissabeth
Well, if you feel bad because you were bullied, why didn't you just pick on someone else to make yourself feel better?
Fat children are fair game, as far as most people are concerned, because they could just go on a diet if they don't want to be picked on.
Or there are always dyslexic/learning difficulty children.
Fat children are fair game, as far as most people are concerned, because they could just go on a diet if they don't want to be picked on.
Or there are always dyslexic/learning difficulty children.
Picking on someone to make yourself feel better, what the hell?
People will always find something to bully someone about. In my case, disability.
Original post by Sheep
in all honesty someone like Hitler is what Britain needs
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
able to bring high employment and making people proud to work hard for their country
someone with low tolerance to useless or disabled people that bring the rest of the country down into debts etc
that is what he was like in early days, the crazy concentration camps nonsense came later on
we need an early-days Hitler
How about no.
Original post by OU Student
Picking on someone to make yourself feel better, what the hell?
People will always find something to bully someone about. In my case, disability.
People will always find something to bully someone about. In my case, disability.
Well, that is why MiniMarshmallow says poor children turn to crime, to feel better about being bullied.
I agree, people can be bullied for any reason really.
Its no excuse to give benefits to the parents.
But most fat people can help being fat, can't they?
They could just go on a diet?
They could just go on a diet?
Original post by Elissabeth
But most fat people can help being fat, can't they?
They could just go on a diet?
They could just go on a diet?
It's not that simple.
What does bullying have to do with benefits?
Original post by OU Student
It's not that simple.
What does bullying have to do with benefits?
What does bullying have to do with benefits?
MiniMarshmallow thinks that poor/unemployed parents should get benefits because otherwise their children would get bullied for being poor.
Original post by Elissabeth
MiniMarshmallow thinks that poor/unemployed parents should get benefits because otherwise their children would get bullied for being poor.
Cheers for putting words in my mouth. I said that's one of the reasons.
The others being so that they don't starve and so they don't get stuck in a poverty trap.
Original post by Elissabeth
Well, that is why MiniMarshmallow says poor children turn to crime, to feel better about being bullied.
I agree, people can be bullied for any reason really.
Its no excuse to give benefits to the parents.
I agree, people can be bullied for any reason really.
Its no excuse to give benefits to the parents.
Children from poor backgrounds are statistically more likely to turn to crime. This could be due to stealing to get stuff, or because they're being bullied.
But continue to try and make me look bad by taking my arguments out of context because you have no ground to stand on...
Original post by Elissabeth
Couldn't your mum have had a c-section?
I'm not entirely sure what the problem was, as it was 15 years ago, but I think it was more carrying the weight rather than giving birth.
And she'd had a previous bad reaction to anaesthesia when she had her appendix out, so I think they were reluctant to do it.
Of course its not a choice to have HIV!
Its passed on more easily through Anal sex, and how would it be your fault if you caught it from a long-term partner, who unbeknown to you, had been sleeping around/having anal sex?
Do you feel that all smokers have chosen to have lung cancer?
All fat people to have heart attacks?
All drinkers to have liver disease?
No, of course not.
Its passed on more easily through Anal sex, and how would it be your fault if you caught it from a long-term partner, who unbeknown to you, had been sleeping around/having anal sex?
Do you feel that all smokers have chosen to have lung cancer?
All fat people to have heart attacks?
All drinkers to have liver disease?
No, of course not.
I don't know what point you are trying to make here?
Original post by Elissabeth
not necessarily, you can take anti-retroviral drugs to reduce the risk significantly.
Its selfish because the child's parent will probably be dead within 10 years.
Its selfish because the child's parent will probably be dead within 10 years.
People with HIV can have children by IVF I believe.
And I don't see what relevance a reduced lifespan has to this debate, we were talking about disabilities...
No, but certain illness/disabilities can make it a lot more difficult if not impossible.
Indeed, learning difficulties (even in a person who lives independently) is often a reason social services remove a child.
Indeed, learning difficulties (even in a person who lives independently) is often a reason social services remove a child.
Do you have any evidence that social services would remove a child from a parent who was perfectly capable of looking after themselves (and presumably also the baby) because they had learning difficulties? Because that seems incredibly unlikely.
Fair enough if the person is alone and not able to look after themselves or the child they might take the child away.
But this debate has come from my mum, who has my dad, and therefore none of this is relevant.
Original post by minimarshmallow
I don't know what point you are trying to make here?
I don't know what point you are trying to make here?
You said it was peoples own fault for having AIDS because most of them had unprotected sex to get it.
Original post by minimarshmallow
People with HIV can have children by IVF I believe.
And I don't see what relevance a reduced lifespan has to this debate, we were talking about disabilities...
Do you have any evidence that social services would remove a child from a parent who was perfectly capable of looking after themselves (and presumably also the baby) because they had learning difficulties? Because that seems incredibly unlikely.
Fair enough if the person is alone and not able to look after themselves or the child they might take the child away.
But this debate has come from my mum, who has my dad, and therefore none of this is relevant.
And I don't see what relevance a reduced lifespan has to this debate, we were talking about disabilities...
Do you have any evidence that social services would remove a child from a parent who was perfectly capable of looking after themselves (and presumably also the baby) because they had learning difficulties? Because that seems incredibly unlikely.
Fair enough if the person is alone and not able to look after themselves or the child they might take the child away.
But this debate has come from my mum, who has my dad, and therefore none of this is relevant.
I have no concrete proof, no, but there have been plenty of stories in the press.
do you remember when that couple fled to ROI (who have more lenient SS) because the girl was of low intelligence and ss said they'd take the baby away when it was born?
Original post by Elissabeth
I have no concrete proof, no, but there have been plenty of stories in the press.
do you remember when that couple fled to ROI (who have more lenient SS) because the girl was of low intelligence and ss said they'd take the baby away when it was born?
do you remember when that couple fled to ROI (who have more lenient SS) because the girl was of low intelligence and ss said they'd take the baby away when it was born?
So, once again, you're generalising from the extreme to the norm. You've seen a few stories in the news and then make a claim of:
Indeed, learning difficulties (even in a person who lives independently) is often a reason social services remove a child.
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