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Recent changes to Health and Relationships forums

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    (Original post by neillya1)
    My bad, I didn't realise this. I guess I just haven't started a thread here in ages

    My point about the images still stands though. Out of curiosity, why are they banned? Surely with pre-moderation, any images could be checked?
    They're mainly banned because we're not physically able to pre-moderate them, and because deleting endless image spam is taking up too much of our time that could be better spent elsewhere.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    They're mainly banned because we're not physically able to pre-moderate them, and because deleting endless image spam is taking up too much of our time that could be better spent elsewhere.
    Ah I see. I had thought maybe something like only allowing the OP to post images, that way they could be pre-moderated when moderating the actual post anyway. I assume though that a limitation of the forum software would mean this probably isn't possible.
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    I'm not too happy with these changes.

    The most popular forums are those which have a good balance of meaningful topics and silly topics. The current H&R has the perfect balance. in every thread you will find a decent balance of helpful posts and humorous posts. If you make a forum specifically for messing around, it will be unpopular because there is no importance to any of the threads. If you make a forum where every single post has to be a serious one, it would just be an incredibly dull forum because many people can't say what they want to say. And as much as we will deny this, a small amount of trolling is required in every forum to keep things light hearted.

    It would have been better if you had TSR users vote on what changes should be made. After all, it's us that actually use these forums.
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    (Original post by I am Nick Clegg)
    It would have been better if you had TSR users vote on what changes should be made. After all, it's us that actually use these forums.
    This is actually a very good idea (although there is always the risk that the trolls would skew the poll.... maybe a poll for members of >6months only?)
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    (Original post by neillya1)
    My bad, I didn't realise this. I guess I just haven't started a thread here in ages

    My point about the images still stands though. Out of curiosity, why are they banned? Surely with pre-moderation, any images could be checked?
    (Original post by neillya1)
    Ah I see. I had thought maybe something like only allowing the OP to post images, that way they could be pre-moderated when moderating the actual post anyway. I assume though that a limitation of the forum software would mean this probably isn't possible.
    Nope, there is no way without a fair amount of dev time to allow the pre-moderation of all images. And afaik from when I worked with vb software, there is no way to restrict the use of certain tags to the opening post or opening poster without again, a lot of dev time.
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    (Original post by neillya1)
    This is actually a very good idea (although there is always the risk that the trolls would skew the poll.... maybe a poll for members of >6months only?)
    It is a very good idea, but unfortunately TSR is not a democracy so this will never happen.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    I deleted several posts, not just yours. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but what you've said has already been voiced plenty of times already and this thread is just turning into one big argument, which is not what's it's for. We have discussed these changes at a great length making use of our own users' opinions to decide what's best and we appreciate any feedback that we receive, but telling us that H&R will become 'boring' is not feedback. The vocal minority that have taken over this thread want H&R to be something that it isn't, at the expense of those who have serious issues that they need help with. Those seeking genuine advice or support will always be given top priority, and if you don't like this then perhaps you should simply post elsewhere.

    In future, please take moderation issues to Ask a H&R Moderator.
    I know you're going to point me to the moderation issues bit. And possibly give me warning points or whatever else, which is annoying because generally I'm nothing but helpful on here. But surely using your power to delete posts just because you're bored of reading that particular opinion isn't appropriate? People can read what's written here and decide for themselves. I know it had been voiced before, but so has 'I agree with the changes', and I don't see anyone deleting those posts...

    I don't particularly disagree with any of the new rules, but I do think voicing opinions is the point of a forum, and deleting posts with opinions you don't personally want to read isn't the point of being a mod.
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    Looking forward to the new categories.
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    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    There is an abundance of posts in H&R which are not specifically offering a constructive opinion or piece of advice. Some are blantent spam and add nothing to the thread. Many are often amusing and essentially quite harmless. The problem is that even though on their own these posts are innoccuous, collectively they are causing a problem. There isn't really a core community in H&R - we have a massive userbase and they follow by example. They see other people posting jokey/witty replies to threads and follow suit and before long you have a thread full of these posts and the poor person who wanted help with their problem can't get any sensible and helpful responses. It's almost turned into a culture and people are complaining about it so we feel we need to try and control the levels of these posts.
    Honestly: you created this problem when you came up with the visible rep thing. Before that, there was trolling and spamming, but not to this extent. Now it exists, because they are obsessed with getting as many little green thumbs ups attached to their responses as possible.
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    (Original post by I am Nick Clegg)
    The most popular forums are those which have a good balance of meaningful topics and silly topics. The current H&R has the perfect balance. in every thread you will find a decent balance of helpful posts and humorous posts. If you make a forum specifically for messing around, it will be unpopular because there is no importance to any of the threads. If you make a forum where every single post has to be a serious one, it would just be an incredibly dull forum because many people can't say what they want to say. And as much as we will deny this, a small amount of trolling is required in every forum to keep things light hearted.

    It would have been better if you had TSR users vote on what changes should be made. After all, it's us that actually use these forums.
    I've just said I don't disagree with the changes but actually I do agree with most of this... I think there needs to be a balance of serious and light-hearted threads, and serious and light-hearted responses, if a forum is to remain active and interesting. I'm pretty guilty myself of hanging around H&R because it can be funny, but once I'm there if I can genuinely contribute something I will. I don't think that's an unusual attitude tbh - people on TSR (young people in general) want a bit of a laugh but will be helpful if they can. I don't think it's fair that we're all essentially being treated as trolls... I know people post genuine problems and want genuine responses, but how many of those problems are really so serious that they can't stand some gentle joking around? And do those problems really belong on TSR?

    I really wish images weren't being banned though... Linking just isn't going to be the same. Like that thread where people were posting their 'perfect woman' - I found that really interesting, but having to click all the links would have killed it in a couple of pages at most.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    I deleted several posts, not just yours. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but what you've said has already been voiced plenty of times already and this thread is just turning into one big argument, which is not what's it's for. We have discussed these changes at a great length making use of our own users' opinions to decide what's best and we appreciate any feedback that we receive, but telling us that H&R will become 'boring' is not feedback. The vocal minority that have taken over this thread want H&R to be something that it isn't, at the expense of those who have serious issues that they need help with. Those seeking genuine advice or support will always be given top priority, and if you don't like this then perhaps you should simply post elsewhere.

    In future, please take moderation issues to Ask a H&R Moderator.
    You've got an awful attitude.
    So what if what she said had been voiced loads of times before? We've heard your bleating and whinnying about those awful trolls fifty billion times in this thread. It's interesting, TSR mods are like an exact replica of the government. You delete stuff that disses you, and you pos rep all the people in this thread who have agreed with you. And you have even said numerous times throughout this thread that you will actually be MONITORING our humour ('gentle ribbing will be allowed', 'light joking is fine where appropriate'). And then when someone questions you, you turn on this snide, cool, 'next please!' fat-kid-who's-been-made-prefect vibe.

    Christ, welcome to Stalag 1 people!
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    (Original post by Aurora.)
    I know you're going to point me to the moderation issues bit. And possibly give me warning points or whatever else, which is annoying because generally I'm nothing but helpful on here. But surely using your power to delete posts just because you're bored of reading that particular opinion isn't appropriate? People can read what's written here and decide for themselves. I know it had been voiced before, but so has 'I agree with the changes', and I don't see anyone deleting those posts...

    I don't particularly disagree with any of the new rules, but I do think voicing opinions is the point of a forum, and deleting posts with opinions you don't personally want to read isn't the point of being a mod.
    I take your point, but I didn't delete the posts because I disagreed with their point of view; it was more that the stance that was being taken by some users was so aggressively negative and in some cases bordering on disrespect. I also deleted posts that were fine, but only because they were quoting other posts that I was about to delete.
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    (Original post by Aurora.)
    I know you're going to point me to the moderation issues bit. And possibly give me warning points or whatever else, which is annoying because generally I'm nothing but helpful on here. But surely using your power to delete posts just because you're bored of reading that particular opinion isn't appropriate? People can read what's written here and decide for themselves. I know it had been voiced before, but so has 'I agree with the changes', and I don't see anyone deleting those posts...

    I don't particularly disagree with any of the new rules, but I do think voicing opinions is the point of a forum, and deleting posts with opinions you don't personally want to read isn't the point of being a mod.
    Exactly.
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    (Original post by in_vogue)
    You've got an awful attitude.
    I'm sorry you think so, but in my defence it's not easy being insulted, belittled and patronised in a public forum by a small minority of our users.

    So what if what she said had been voiced loads of times before? We've heard your bleating and whinnying about those awful trolls fifty billion times in this thread. It's interesting, TSR mods are like an exact replica of the government.
    You delete stuff that disses you, and you pos rep all the people in this thread who have agreed with you. And you have even said numerous times throughout this thread that you will actually be MONITORING our humour ('gentle ribbing will be allowed', 'light joking is fine where appropriate'). And then when someone questions you, you turn on this snide, cool, 'next please!' fat-kid-who's-been-made-prefect vibe.

    Christ, welcome to Stalag 1 people!
    The above is exactly why I was deleting some posts, because I was worried that the thread would descend into insults and mod abuse. Clearly my attempt to be proactive has backfired in this case, for which I apologise.

    To address your points:
    • You may think that I'm 'whinnying' about nothign, but having to deal with malicious and offensive content on a daily basis is not an easy job, as such we have decided to do something to tackle it. Furthermore, the results of our well publicised survey showed that many of our users share the same concerns.
    • I am not deleting things simply because I disagree with them, but because of the offensive/aggressive tone that they are taking. We are all volunteers and are trying to do our best, so to have our improvements belittled and dismissed is unfair. I (and others) have tried my best to respond to criticisms and concerns and will continue to do so.
    • Of course we'll be monitoring your humour; it's our job to do so! Trolling is a form of humour, is it not?
    • I apologise if I am coming across as snide or dismissive and will do my best to change my tone.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    I take your point, but I didn't delete the posts because I disagreed with their point of view; it was more that the stance that was being taken by some users was so aggressively negative and in some cases bordering on disrespect. I also deleted posts that were fine, but only because they were quoting other posts that I was about to delete.
    I do get what you mean but tbh I think that's abusing your powers as a mod a little. Everyone else just reads the posts they disagree with and gets on with it. If they were actually abusive to anybody in particular, you'd be right to delete them, but deleting stuff just because it's agreeing with a point of view you're personally sick of hearing about, or because you feel disrespected by the tone doesn't seem quite right... I just think some stuff got deleted out of frustration because this thread hasn't gone the way the mods wanted it to. (Though it's surely been more reasonable than they expected.) Anyway, thanks for not just flaming me
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    Of course we'll be monitoring your humour; it's our job to do so!
    Although I completely understand this is what being a TSR mod means, the only problem is that what qualifies as 'gentle ribbing' or whatever is going to vary with the mod, the mod's mood, how their day's been, their personal view on the subject... Because no matter how impartial you try to be you can't help but be swayed by these things. That feels a bit uncomfortable for those of us who might be getting so many warning points we get permanently banned from an entire section of TSR because somebody took a post differently to how it was intended... Not attacking anyone at all here, just trying to explain I suppose.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    [*]I am not deleting things simply because I disagree with them, but because of the offensive/aggressive tone that they are taking.
    Ok, I take offense at that. My post was not aggressive or offensive in any way, it was just disagreeing with the changes. Nothing more, nothing less.


    so to have our improvements belittled and dismissed is unfair
    I'm sorry but, who says these are necessarily improvements? Had the majority of users voted on them then yes, improvements. However, many of us don't see these as improvements and so to call them such is surely belittling others opinions whilst pushing your own?
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    (Original post by Aurora.)
    I do get what you mean but tbh I think that's abusing your powers as a mod a little. Everyone else just reads the posts they disagree with and gets on with it. If they were actually abusive to anybody in particular, you'd be right to delete them, but deleting stuff just because it's agreeing with a point of view you're personally sick of hearing about, or because you feel disrespected by the tone doesn't seem quite right... I just think some stuff got deleted out of frustration because this thread hasn't gone the way the mods wanted it to. (Though it's surely been more reasonable than they expected.) Anyway, thanks for not just flaming me
    Like I said, it's not a case of disagreement. I accept that I may have been a bit delete-happy though, and I apologise for that.

    (Original post by Aurora.)
    Although I completely understand this is what being a TSR mod means, the only problem is that what qualifies as 'gentle ribbing' or whatever is going to vary with the mod, the mod's mood, how their day's been, their personal view on the subject... Because no matter how impartial you try to be you can't help but be swayed by these things. That feels a bit uncomfortable for those of us who might be getting so many warning points we get permanently banned from an entire section of TSR because somebody took a post differently to how it was intended... Not attacking anyone at all here, just trying to explain I suppose.
    Well, that's true, but to put it another way would you prefer it if we didn't use our own personal judgement and treated every situation exactly the same? Subjectivity is always going to be an issue, but unlike other forums we do have procedures in place for users to question individual decisions and ask for a second opinion.
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    I think we're in danger of taking TSR too seriously. In all honesty, 7/10 threads are troll threads, so can we be blamed for giving an equally trollish response.

    It seems uncalled for, since tbh, I haven't really seen that many complaints about the system, and I'm slightly confused, why the mods didn't even consult members.

    If anything, I will miss the lulz of HnR.:ashamed2:
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    Am I the only one who thinks these mods take their 'job' a bit too seriously?

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